About how many here hold some preterism views? - Part 2

[Hope of glory]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Wow the new continued thread a good time to start fresh and be Christ like to one another How many Amens can I get?

Amen again.

I got a good laugh on myself yesterday.
When you asked if Christians were Gentiles....and I said no. Yesterday it hit that when the Word says the "time of the Gentiles" what that was saying. Dah....

That's good!

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

What futurists are confused about is that even though they say "the kingdom is within us", they are still waiting on Jesus to return and set up a kingdom. You see the contradiction. We are not waiting on Jesus, he is waiting on us (Eph.4:11-15)

Paul taught us the truth -

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

.. when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

That Day has not come, nor do we have our resurrected, immortal bodies that will never die!

34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

When we are resurrected, all the lawless and wicked will be removed and cast in to everlasting fire.

There will be only righteous ones who remain.

Then will everlasting righteousness be fulfilled.

This is truly something to look forward to.

Pretending that we are now living in that time, is nothing but self deception!


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

What futurists are confused about is that even though they say "the kingdom is within us", they are still waiting on Jesus to return and set up a kingdom. You see the contradiction. We are not waiting on Jesus, he is waiting on us (Eph.4:11-15)

Paul taught us the truth -

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in
his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

.. when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

That Day has not come, nor do we have our resurrected, immortal bodies that will never die!
34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

When we are resurrected, all the lawless and wicked will be removed and cast in to everlasting fire.

There will be only righteous ones who remain.

Then will everlasting righteousness be fulfilled.

This is truly something to look forward to.

Pretending that we are now living in that time, is nothing but self deception!


JLB

JLB,

You quoted "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24"

Here are better translations of verse 24 "Then cometh the end, when he SHALL HAVE delivered up the kingdom to God, when he SHALL HAVE put down all all rule and all authority and power. (KJV)

After that cones the end (the completion), when he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER rendering inoperative and abolishing every (other) rule and every authority and power. (AMP)

Jesus is not returning TO put down opposition, rather, he is returning AFTER all opposition has been put beneath his feet.

Verse 25 and 26 confirm this:
"For he must reign, UNTIL he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

This "reign" is not future. Jesus reigns now!

Acts 2:34-36
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

You can't understand 1Cor.15:22-26 without the revelation of these scriptures. The church us Gods instrument to cleans this earth of wickedness. The "Tree of life" is in the midst of the city" (Christ is in the midst of the church) and the fruit of this tree will "heal the
nations" (Rev.22.1-2).
We must grow as one new man in his fulness and place all enemies of the kingdoom under our feet, even death.

I'm telling you, the gospel is bigger than just getting saved and waiting for Jesus to save us weaklings from the big bad devil...LOL!

It is "Christ in us", the hope (expectation) of Gods glory filling the earth. (Col.1:22-28) (Gen.1:26-17 Num.14:21 Hab.2:14 Isa.40:5-8 John 17:22
Heb.1:3 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27 Rev.21:11)!

Christ IS and WILL have a visible bodily appearing through his Church, which is his body. He will return and every eye shall see him, but not UNTIL every enemy is place under his feet. (Again, this does not take away from nor negate his future return).

Eph.3:4,10 (KJV, AMP)
"Whenbyou read this you may understand my insight into the mystery of Christ....(The purpose is) that THROUGH THE CHURCH, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all it's infinite variety and innumerable aspects might NOW be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere"

1Cor.1:24 says that Christ is the "wisdom of God".
It is through the church that fullness (the infinite variety and innumerable aspects) of Christ will be made known (revelaed)!
He is appearing, he is coming is now in us JLB, "as He is, so are we in this world"
.....THROUGH THE CHURCH.....NOW!

Blessings brother.

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

xo_16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Exo_34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Lev_16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Num_11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

The Scriptures were pinned by Jewish guys....Meaning guys that knew the OT .... When I think of the ways God appeared to them , right now thinking of the 'cloud' I can help but wonder if the word cloud means something different then those white fluffy things in the sky...

None of these references refer to the Man Jesus Christ, The Messiah.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

What futurists are confused about is that even though they say "the kingdom is within us", they are still waiting on Jesus to return and set up a kingdom. You see the contradiction. We are not waiting on Jesus, he is waiting on us (Eph.4:11-15)

Paul taught us the truth -

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in
his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

.. when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

That Day has not come, nor do we have our resurrected, immortal bodies that will never die!
34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

When we are resurrected, all the lawless and wicked will be removed and cast in to everlasting fire.

There will be only righteous ones who remain.

Then will everlasting righteousness be fulfilled.

This is truly something to look forward to.

Pretending that we are now living in that time, is nothing but self deception!


JLB

JLB,

You quoted "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24"

Here are better translations of verse 24 "Then cometh the end, when he SHALL HAVE delivered up the kingdom to God, when he SHALL HAVE put down all all rule and all authority and power. (KJV)

After that cones the end (the completion), when he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER rendering inoperative and abolishing every (other) rule and every authority and power. (AMP)

Jesus is not returning TO put down opposition, rather, he is returning AFTER all opposition has been put beneath his feet.

Verse 25 and 26 confirm this:
"For he must reign, UNTIL he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

This "reign" is not future. Jesus reigns now!

Acts 2:34-36
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

You can't understand 1Cor.15:22-26 without the revelation of these scriptures. The church us Gods instrument to cleans this earth of wickedness. The "Tree of life" is in the midst of the city" (Christ is in the midst of the church) and the fruit of this tree will "heal the
nations" (Rev.22.1-2).
We must grow as one new man in his fulness and place all enemies of the kingdoom under our feet, even death.

I'm telling you, the gospel is bigger than just getting saved and waiting for Jesus to save us weaklings from the big bad devil...LOL!

It is "Christ in us", the hope (expectation) of Gods glory filling the earth. (Col.1:22-28) (Gen.1:26-17 Num.14:21 Hab.2:14 Isa.40:5-8 John 17:22
Heb.1:3 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27 Rev.21:11)!

Christ IS and WILL have a visible bodily appearing through his Church, which is his body. He will return and every eye shall see him, but not UNTIL every enemy is place under his feet. (Again, this does not take away from nor negate his future return).

Eph.3:4,10 (KJV, AMP)
"Whenbyou read this you may understand my insight into the mystery of Christ....(The purpose is) that THROUGH THE CHURCH, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all it's infinite variety and innumerable aspects might NOW be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere"

1Cor.1:24 says that Christ is the "wisdom of God".
It is through the church that fullness (the infinite variety and innumerable aspects) of Christ will be made known (revelaed)!
He is appearing, he is coming is now in us JLB, "as He is, so are we in this world"
.....THROUGH THE CHURCH.....NOW!

Blessings brother.

When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.


JLB

 

[reba]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Our opinions just differ JLB

 

[jasoncran]

when we live holy we don't shine the light of the city on a hill. the beacon of the cross?

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Our opinions just differ JLB

Do you believe that the Earth is just as it is in heaven, in this present state?

Do you believe there is Murder in heaven?

Do you believe there are Lawless, murdering, wicked people that dwell in heaven?

Do you believe there is sickness and disease in heaven?

Jesus taught us to pray that God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

God fully intends to see this Earth become, just as it is in Heaven.

God made Adam and Eve sinless and perfect, without iniquity for the purpose of multiplying who they were in that perfect state of being and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God.

The day will come when we receive our perfect sinless immortal bodies at the resurrection, and the wicked will be removed, and then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

What part of that don't you believe, Reba?


JLB

 

[reba]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Sorry I should have posted the quote. I was referencing post # 24

 

[reba]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

xo_16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Exo_34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Lev_16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Num_11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

The Scriptures were pinned by Jewish guys....Meaning guys that knew the OT .... When I think of the ways God appeared to them , right now thinking of the 'cloud' I can help but wonder if the word cloud means something different then those white fluffy things in the sky...

None of these references refer to the Man Jesus Christ, The Messiah.


JLB

This is what I was talking about we just differ

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

What futurists are confused about is that even though they say "the kingdom is within us", they are still waiting on Jesus to return and set up a kingdom. You see the contradiction. We are not waiting on Jesus, he is waiting on us (Eph.4:11-15)

Paul taught us the truth -

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in

his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

.. when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

That Day has not come, nor do we have our resurrected, immortal bodies that will never die!
34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

When we are resurrected, all the lawless and wicked will be removed and cast in to everlasting fire.

There will be only righteous ones who remain.

Then will everlasting righteousness be fulfilled.

This is truly something to look forward to.

Pretending that we are now living in that time, is nothing but self deception!


JLB

JLB,

You quoted "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ
the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24"

Here are better translations of verse 24 "Then cometh the end, when he SHALL HAVE delivered up the kingdom to God, when he SHALL HAVE put down all all rule and all authority and power. (KJV)

After that cones the end (the completion), when he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER rendering inoperative and abolishing every (other) rule and every authority and power. (AMP)

Jesus is not returning TO put down opposition, rather, he is returning AFTER all opposition has been put beneath his feet.

Verse 25 and 26 confirm this:
"For he must reign, UNTIL he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

This "reign" is not future. Jesus reigns now!

Acts 2:34-36
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

You can't understand 1Cor.15:22-26 without the revelation of these scriptures. The church us Gods instrument to cleans this earth of wickedness. The "Tree of life" is in the midst of the city" (Christ is in the midst of the church) and the fruit of this tree will "heal the
nations" (Rev.22.1-2).
We must grow as one new man in his fulness and place all enemies of the kingdoom under our feet, even death.

I'm telling you, the gospel is bigger than just getting saved and waiting for Jesus to save us weaklings from the big bad devil...LOL!

It is "Christ in us", the hope (expectation) of Gods glory filling the earth. (Col.1:22-28) (Gen.1:26-17 Num.14:21 Hab.2:14 Isa.40:5-8 John 17:22
Heb.1:3 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27 Rev.21:11)!

Christ IS and WILL have a visible bodily appearing through his Church, which is his body. He will return and every eye shall see him, but not UNTIL every enemy is place under his feet. (Again, this does not take away from nor negate his future return).

Eph.3:4,10 (KJV, AMP)
"Whenbyou read this you may understand my insight into the mystery of Christ....(The purpose is) that THROUGH THE CHURCH, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all it's infinite variety and innumerable aspects might NOW be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere"

1Cor.1:24 says that Christ is the "wisdom of God".
It is through the church that fullness (the infinite variety and innumerable aspects) of Christ will be made known (revelaed)!
He is appearing, he is coming is now in us JLB, "as He is, so are we in this world"
.....THROUGH THE CHURCH.....NOW!

Blessings brother.

When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.


JLB

JLB, You said"When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth."

The scripture is clear that Jesus is not returning TO put all things under his feet.....he already has. "And he put all things under his feet...." (Eph.1:22)

Contrary to what you have stated, scripture clearly teaches that Jesus will remain in the heavens, at the Fathers right hand UNTIL all enemies are made his footstool (put under his feet).
Here are some plain texts:
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

Scripture is also clear that Jesus reigns NOW. Therefore, 1Cor.15:25 is not some future reign of Jesus in which he "physically destroys the wicked". He reigns from the heavens (through his Church who is seated in the heavens with him) EXPECTING UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.

The will of the Father will be done and his kingdom will come (appear) in earth as it is in heaven THROUGH THE CHURCH (with the exception of the glorified body)

JLB you said: "God made Adam and Eve sinless and perfect, without iniquity for the purpose of multiplying who they were in that perfect state of being and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God."

I want you to know that since the cross, "plan A is back in motion"!
We have been recreated in Christ as Sons of God in the image and glory of God for the purpose of "multiplying" (reproducing the Christ nature) which is who we are and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God!

What God started in Adam he has accomplished in Christ. Christ died so this original plan could be accomplished BY THE CHURCH (Eph.3:10). He ALWAYS wanted MAN to fill the earth with HIS GLORY.......This is the mystery which has been revealed JLB, it is CHRIST IN US (HIS CHURCH) THE HOPE OF GLORY!

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

JLB,

You quoted "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ
the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24"

Here are better translations of verse 24 "Then cometh the end, when he SHALL HAVE delivered up the kingdom to God, when he SHALL HAVE put down all all rule and all authority and power. (KJV)

After that cones the end (the completion), when he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER rendering inoperative and abolishing every (other) rule and every authority and power. (AMP)

Jesus is not returning TO put down opposition, rather, he is returning AFTER all opposition has been put beneath his feet.

Verse 25 and 26 confirm this:
"For he must reign, UNTIL he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

This "reign" is not future. Jesus reigns now!

Acts 2:34-36
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

You can't understand 1Cor.15:22-26 without the revelation of these scriptures. The church us Gods instrument to cleans this earth of wickedness. The "Tree of life" is in the midst of the city" (Christ is in the midst of the church) and the fruit of this tree will "heal the
nations" (Rev.22.1-2).
We must grow as one new man in his fulness and place all enemies of the kingdoom under our feet, even death.

I'm telling you, the gospel is bigger than just getting saved and waiting for Jesus to save us weaklings from the big bad devil...LOL!

It is "Christ in us", the hope (expectation) of Gods glory filling the earth. (Col.1:22-28) (Gen.1:26-17 Num.14:21 Hab.2:14 Isa.40:5-8 John 17:22
Heb.1:3 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27 Rev.21:11)!

Christ IS and WILL have a visible bodily appearing through his Church, which is his body. He will return and every eye shall see him, but not UNTIL every enemy is place under his feet. (Again, this does not take away from nor negate his future return).

Eph.3:4,10 (KJV, AMP)
"Whenbyou read this you may understand my insight into the mystery of Christ....(The purpose is) that THROUGH THE CHURCH, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all it's infinite variety and innumerable aspects might NOW be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere"

1Cor.1:24 says that Christ is the "wisdom of God".
It is through the church that fullness (the infinite variety and innumerable aspects) of Christ will be made known (revelaed)!
He is appearing, he is coming is now in us JLB, "as He is, so are we in this world"
.....THROUGH THE CHURCH.....NOW!

Blessings brother.

When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.


JLB

JLB, You said"When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth."

The scripture is clear that Jesus is not returning TO put all things under his feet.....he already has. "And he put all things under his feet...." (Eph.1:22)

Contrary to what you have stated, scripture clearly teaches that Jesus will remain in the heavens, at the Fathers right hand UNTIL all enemies are made his footstool (put under his feet).
Here are some plain texts:
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

Scripture is also clear that Jesus reigns NOW. Therefore, 1Cor.15:25 is not some future reign of Jesus in which he "physically destroys the wicked". He reigns from the heavens (through his Church who is seated in the heavens with him) EXPECTING UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.

The will of the Father will be done and his kingdom will come (appear) in earth as it is in heaven THROUGH THE CHURCH (with the exception of the glorified body)

JLB you said: "God made Adam and Eve sinless and perfect, without iniquity for the purpose of multiplying who they were in that perfect state of being and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God."

I want you to know that since the cross, "plan A is back in motion"!
We have been recreated in Christ as Sons of God in the image and glory of God for the purpose of "multiplying" (reproducing the Christ nature) which is who we are and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God!

What God started in Adam he has accomplished in Christ. Christ died so this original plan could be accomplished BY THE CHURCH (Eph.3:10). He ALWAYS wanted MAN to fill the earth with HIS GLORY.......This is the mystery which has been revealed JLB, it is CHRIST IN US (HIS CHURCH) THE HOPE OF GLORY!

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

The scripture says He will put all things under His feet.

The scripture says, For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.

That Day has not come yet.

You can argue all you want, you can pretend that it has, but that Day has not come.

Thats why the scripture says -

CHRIST IN US THE HOPE OF GLORY!

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

We have hope for what is FUTURE!


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

JLB,

You quoted "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ
the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24"

Here are better translations of verse 24 "Then cometh the end, when he SHALL HAVE delivered up the kingdom to God, when he SHALL HAVE put down all all rule and all authority and power. (KJV)

After that cones the end (the completion), when he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER rendering inoperative and abolishing every (other) rule and every authority and power. (AMP)

Jesus is not returning TO put down opposition, rather, he is returning AFTER all opposition has been put beneath his feet.

Verse 25 and 26 confirm this:
"For he must reign, UNTIL he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"

This "reign" is not future. Jesus reigns now!

Acts 2:34-36
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"
Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

You can't understand 1Cor.15:22-26 without the revelation of these scriptures. The church us Gods instrument to cleans this earth of wickedness. The "Tree of life" is in the midst of the city" (Christ is in the midst of the church) and the fruit of this tree will "heal the
nations" (Rev.22.1-2).
We must grow as one new man in his fulness and place all enemies of the kingdoom under our feet, even death.

I'm telling you, the gospel is bigger than just getting saved and waiting for Jesus to save us weaklings from the big bad devil...LOL!

It is "Christ in us", the hope (expectation) of Gods glory filling the earth. (Col.1:22-28) (Gen.1:26-17 Num.14:21 Hab.2:14 Isa.40:5-8 John 17:22
Heb.1:3 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27 Rev.21:11)!

Christ IS and WILL have a visible bodily appearing through his Church, which is his body. He will return and every eye shall see him, but not UNTIL every enemy is place under his feet. (Again, this does not take away from nor negate his future return).

Eph.3:4,10 (KJV, AMP)
"Whenbyou read this you may understand my insight into the mystery of Christ....(The purpose is) that THROUGH THE CHURCH, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all it's infinite variety and innumerable aspects might NOW be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere"

1Cor.1:24 says that Christ is the "wisdom of God".
It is through the church that fullness (the infinite variety and innumerable aspects) of Christ will be made known (revelaed)!
He is appearing, he is coming is now in us JLB, "as He is, so are we in this world"
.....THROUGH THE CHURCH.....NOW!

Blessings brother.

When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.



JLB

JLB, You said"When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth."

The scripture is clear that Jesus is not returning TO put all things under his feet.....he already has. "And he put all things under his feet...." (Eph.1:22)

Contrary to what you have stated, scripture clearly teaches that Jesus will remain in the heavens, at the Fathers right hand UNTIL all enemies are made his footstool (put under his feet).
Here are some plain texts:
"For David is not ascended into the heavens but he saith himself, "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know (let all the Church know) assuredly, that God HATH (past tense)
made that same Jesus whom you have crucified both Lord and Christ"

Jesus is presently reigning as Lord and Christ (a King-priest rule), UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
Heb.1:13..."sit on my right hand UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps.110:1)
Heb.10:12-13 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the tight hand of God, expecting UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool"

Scripture is also clear that Jesus reigns NOW. Therefore, 1Cor.15:25 is not some future reign of Jesus in which he "physically destroys the wicked". He reigns from the heavens (through his Church who is seated in the heavens with him) EXPECTING UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.

The will of the Father will be done and his kingdom will come (appear) in earth as it is in heaven THROUGH THE CHURCH (with the exception of the glorified body)

JLB you said: "God made Adam and Eve sinless and perfect, without iniquity for the purpose of multiplying who they were in that perfect state of being and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God."

I want you to know that since the cross, "plan A is back in motion"!
We have been recreated in Christ as Sons of God in the image and glory of God for the purpose of "multiplying" (reproducing the Christ nature) which is who we are and filling the earth with righteousness and the glory of God!

What God started in Adam he has accomplished in Christ. Christ died so this original plan could be accomplished BY THE
CHURCH (Eph.3:10). He ALWAYS wanted MAN to fill the earth with HIS GLORY.......This is the mystery which has been revealed JLB, it is CHRIST IN US (HIS CHURCH) THE HOPE OF GLORY!

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

The scripture says He will put all things under His feet.

The scripture says, For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

The earth will be as it is in heaven, with no wicked or lawless people alive. THEN the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their father, as Jesus Jesus did on the mount of transfiguration.

That Day has not yet come.

That Day has not come yet.

You can argue all you want, you can pretend that it has, but that Day has not come.

Thats why the scripture says -

CHRIST IN US THE HOPE OF GLORY!

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

We have hope for what is FUTURE!


JLB

JLB, you keep saying "That Day has not yet come.

That Day has not come yet.

You can argue all you want, you can pretend that it has, but that Day has not come."

I think you are misunderstanding me, I agree all enemies (experiencially) have net yet been made his footstool in the earth.
Yes, "He puts all enemies under His feet"! This is clear.
Scripture is also clear that He remains in the heavens UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool.
So how does he put all enemies under foot while seated in heaven.
Answer: He in us and as us ("Christ who is our life") puts all enemies under foot, it is Christ in us the hope of glory!

Sorry JLB, to imagine that we are waiting for Jesus to return to "fix things up" rather than understanding that the Church is his fullness, the "Saviors upon mt. Zion"(Obediah 21) is to "have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof".

May he open your eyes to mystery of Christ in us!
Blessings

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

to "have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof".

That would be to deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

For He has called us to cast out devils, speak in new tongues and lay hands on the sick and watch them recover.

Do you deny that when Jesus returns, He will -

Destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming?

Are you saying the scripture is wrong, that Christians are supposed to destroy the lawless one?

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

and again -

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16

... that with it He should strike the nations.

... And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.

... He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Hopefully you are not going to deny these very real and straightforward scriptures!


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

to "have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof".

That would be to deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

For He has called us to cast out devils, speak in new tongues and lay hands on the sick and watch them recover.

Do you deny that when Jesus returns, He will -

Destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming?

Are you saying the scripture is wrong, that Christians are supposed to destroy the lawless one?

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and
with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

and again -

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will
rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16
... that with it He should strike the nations.

... And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.

... He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Hopefully you are not going to deny these very real and straightforward scriptures!

JLB

JLB, when you understand the "mystery of Christ" and the "fellowship of this mystery" (Eph.3) you will realize that Christ really is our life.
I believe I have seen why some of our views differ.
Do you understand that Christ is both head and body ?(Gal.3:16,27)
Do you understand that we are one with God? (1cor.6:17, Eph.5:30 John 17)
Do you understand that Jesus has finished his work? (John 19:30)
Do you understand that Christ is now living his life through his Church? (Gal.2:20)
Do you understand that as he is, so are we in the earth? (1john4:17)
Do you understand that it is Christ in his church that is the hope of Gods glory filling the earth? (Gen.1:26-27 Num.14:21 Isa.40:5-8 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27)

Jesus has finished everything, but what he has finished has not yet been manifested in and by us!
There must be an outworking of the great salvation he died to provide! We must "work out" our salvation.
Learn this: Jesus has finished HIS work and has sat down in a position of rest and authority. He has sent his Spirit into us that we might appropriate and enter into his works, thereby finishing our work.

What is left to be manifested, Christ, both head and body are accomplishing it TOGETHER AS ONE through the Church!
You must cease to see Jesus and the Church as two, but see them as one....Mr. And Mrs. Jesus Christ! He has written upon us his new name (nature)
The Tree of Life is in the midst of the city my friend. The city of rev.21-22 is a people!
The body of Christ has the glory of God (John 17:22), and so does the city (Rev.21:9)!

I don't deny the real and straightforward scriptures, but I do disagree with your understanding and interpretation of them.

We should deal with the "coming of the Lord" scriptures in the other thread as you suggested, it will help you. There is a "coming of the Lord" in our lifetime, but not in the traditional futuristic sense.

Blessings

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

to "have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof".

That would be to deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

For He has called us to cast out devils, speak in new tongues and lay hands on the sick and watch them recover.

Do you deny that when Jesus returns, He will -

Destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming?

Are you saying the scripture is wrong, that Christians are supposed to destroy the lawless one?

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and
with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

and again -

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will
rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16
... that with it He should strike the nations.

... And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.

... He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Hopefully you are not going to deny these very real and straightforward scriptures!

JLB

JLB, when you understand the "mystery of Christ" and the "fellowship of this mystery" (Eph.3) you will realize that Christ really is our life.
I believe I have seen why some of our views differ.
Do you understand that Christ is both head and body ?(Gal.3:16,27)
Do you understand that we are one with God? (1cor.6:17, Eph.5:30 John 17)
Do you understand that Jesus has finished his work? (John 19:30)
Do you understand that Christ is now living his life through his Church? (Gal.2:20)
Do you understand that as he is, so are we in the earth? (1john4:17)
Do you understand that it is Christ in his church that is the hope of Gods glory filling the earth? (Gen.1:26-27 Num.14:21 Isa.40:5-8 1pet.1:23-25 Col.1:25-27)

Jesus has finished everything, but what he has finished has not yet been manifested in and by us!
There must be an outworking of the great salvation he died to provide! We must "work out" our salvation.
Learn this: Jesus has finished HIS work and has sat down in a position of rest and authority. He has sent his Spirit into us that we might appropriate and enter into his works, thereby finishing our work.

What is left to be manifested, Christ, both head and body are accomplishing it TOGETHER AS ONE through the Church!
You must cease to see Jesus and the Church as two, but see them as one....Mr. And Mrs. Jesus Christ! He has written upon us his new name (nature)
The Tree of Life is in the midst of the city my friend. The city of rev.21-22 is a people!
The body of Christ has the glory of God (John 17:22), and so does the city (Rev.21:9)!

I don't deny the real and straightforward scriptures, but I do disagree with your understanding and interpretation of them.

We should deal with the "coming of the Lord" scriptures in the other thread as you suggested, it will help you. There is a "coming of the Lord" in our lifetime, but not in the traditional futuristic sense.

Blessings

So in other words, you are not going to show any scriptures that pertain to the Coming of the Lord in the present tense, like you kept talking about!

Because they don't exist!

The Parousia, the coming of the Lord is about the future return of Jesus Christ whereby He destroys the lawless one, and every eye sees His physical return, because that is the only way it is used in scripture.
EDITED


JLB

 

[Rev33]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

When Jesus returns and puts an end to all rule and authority, there will be no evil, wicked kingdoms left on earth.

2 things here:
1) Jesus ascended into heaven AFTER all earthly powers and principalities had become subject to Him.
This is not an event we are yet waiting for. ALL power and dominion are His. There is nothing that is not already under his rule.
Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

2) for your claim about no wicked people left after Christ returns to be true, Revelation 22:14-15 must be false.
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.


This of course depicts a reality AFTER the Battle of Armageddon has been fought, AFTER the old Heavens and earth have been destroyed and New Heavens and earth have Come, and AFTER the City of the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. Jesus says that AT THAT TIME, right outside the city gates are
"dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."


Sorry JLB, Given the choice between these two polar opposite depictions, my money is on Rev 22:15 being true and you being wrong.

 

[JLB]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

1) Jesus ascended into heaven AFTER all earthly powers and principalities had become subject to Him.

Do all nations acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord? No.

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

When all the nations have submitted themselves to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, whereby EVERY KNEE BOWS AND EVERY TONGUES CONFESSES THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, then and only then will the earthly powers be subject to Him.

Meanwhile, the nations are hostile to God's people, killing His people everyday, especially Islam.

So the idea that all the nations have become subject to Him is totally unfounded.

He does have all authority in heaven and earth.

He does have the authority to send His apostles to subdue and have dominion.

That does not mean that all the nations have submitted themselves or subjected themselves under God's Kingdom and rule.

The very fact the we need to still preach the Gospel is evidence of that.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Sorry JLB, Given the choice between these two polar opposite depictions, my money is on Rev 22:15 being true and you being wrong.

Hi Rev33.
I see this also,

Revelation 21 KJV
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I understand verses 6-8 explaining who will inherit the New Jerusalem and the New Earth.

 

[reba]

Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

When so many of His own will not acknowledge Him as Lord of all why ever should the world?

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Why are we willing to accept 19,20 but not 18 ? well that makes 17 make sense.