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About how many here hold some preterism views? - Part 2

ezrider

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Full Preterism teaches that Jesus returned in 70 AD, as that was the end of the age.

Also this Forum has its rules and guidelines as well -



As far as the Resurrection of the dead, Paul teaches that all who belong to The Lord will be Resurrected at the same time at His Coming.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1Corinthians 15:20-24

JLB
I have noticed how you like to quote that scripture from Corinthians and I wonder if you even understand it, or do you just like it because you can point to the word “after” in it. But in context the scripture leading up to that passage tends to refute your assertions.

1 Cor 15:12-19
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Your assertion is and has been that the resurrection has not yet happened, and yet Paul tells you plainly that if that is what you believe, then you are declaring that Christ has not risen, and your preaching is vain. Believing that Jesus was crucified and died, and rose again on the third day is one of the most basic tenants of the Christian faith, and by your denying that the resurrection has happened, you are denying Christ.

1 John 2:22-25
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:sadbut) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

There was once another who believed that the resurrection occurred at the last day as you until being told otherwise, maybe you will hear him who corrected them.

John 11: 23-26
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What is it that you believe? Do you believe that Christ has risen from the dead? Or are you a doubting Thomas who must see with his own eyes before he will believe?

John 20:25-31
But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

I’m not asking you to believe my words, but I do wonder if you believe the words of Christ. I have only one question to ask you, and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from trying quote any scripture in the process. I am not interested in what you can quote, I want to honestly know what is in your heart.

The following is from Acts 1:10-11. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Can you please describe for me with as much detail as possible in you own words what you saw with your own eyes as Jesus was taken up into heaven. This would surely help in what to look for when he comes again.
 

Sinthesis

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Full Preterism teaches that Jesus returned in 70 AD, as that was the end of the age.

Also this Forum has its rules and guidelines as well -



As far as the Resurrection of the dead, Paul teaches that all who belong to The Lord will be Resurrected at the same time at His Coming.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1Corinthians 15:20-24

JLB
It doesn't actually say 'at the same time', but only says 'afterward'. You just assume 'same time' based on your eschatology. Are we talking about being made alive spiritually or physically? Which is more important? Remember that Adam died spiritually even though his body lived on. As a contrast it would seem significant if as Christians we were alive with Christ even after the death of the body, with the promise of a new glorified body eventually.
 

JLB

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I have noticed how you like to quote that scripture from Corinthians and I wonder if you even understand it, or do you just like it because you can point to the word “after” in it. But in context the scripture leading up to that passage tends to refute your assertions.

1 Cor 15:12-19
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Your assertion is and has been that the resurrection has not yet happened, and yet Paul tells you plainly that if that is what you believe, then you are declaring that Christ has not risen, and your preaching is vain. Believing that Jesus was crucified and died, and rose again on the third day is one of the most basic tenants of the Christian faith, and by your denying that the resurrection has happened, you are denying Christ.

1 John 2:22-25
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:sadbut) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

There was once another who believed that the resurrection occurred at the last day as you until being told otherwise, maybe you will hear him who corrected them.

John 11: 23-26
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What is it that you believe? Do you believe that Christ has risen from the dead? Or are you a doubting Thomas who must see with his own eyes before he will believe?

John 20:25-31
But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

I’m not asking you to believe my words, but I do wonder if you believe the words of Christ. I have only one question to ask you, and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from trying quote any scripture in the process. I am not interested in what you can quote, I want to honestly know what is in your heart.

The following is from Acts 1:10-11. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Can you please describe for me with as much detail as possible in you own words what you saw with your own eyes as Jesus was taken up into heaven. This would surely help in what to look for when he comes again.

Paul plainly teaches us that Christ has risen from the dead and is the first fruits of those who have previously died [fallen asleep].

That is what I am advocating, as I have done from the beginning.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Christ has in fact risen from the dead!

We also have this hope, at His Coming.

Jesus teaches us this will be at the end of this age, on the last Day!

To qualify for the resurrection of the dead, you first have to die.

35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain--perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15:35-44

Recap -

The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


Furthermore, Paul goes on to say -

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

Recap -

but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We shall all be changed at the Last Trumpet.


For all those who are His, shall all be raised together, on the Last Day!

Until then, the resurrection of the dead is something we all are looking forward to, by faith.

Can you please describe for me with as much detail as possible in you own words what you saw with your own eyes as Jesus was taken up into heaven. This would surely help in what to look for when he comes again.
1
The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:1-5

Do you believe you have to physically be in Jerusalem, in order to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit?


JLB
 

jasoncran

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It doesn't actually say 'at the same time', but only says 'afterward'. You just assume 'same time' based on your eschatology. Are we talking about being made alive spiritually or physically? Which is more important? Remember that Adam died spiritually even though his body lived on. As a contrast it would seem significant if as Christians we were alive with Christ even after the death of the body, with the promise of a new glorified body eventually.
god forbid the church actually teach that. mine does.its called the resurrection promise.
 

JLB

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It doesn't actually say 'at the same time', but only says 'afterward'. You just assume 'same time' based on your eschatology. Are we talking about being made alive spiritually or physically? Which is more important? Remember that Adam died spiritually even though his body lived on. As a contrast it would seem significant if as Christians we were alive with Christ even after the death of the body, with the promise of a new glorified body eventually.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

My belief is based on what Paul taught here -

... afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

Those who are Christ's, indicates that no one will be left out of the resurrection, that are His.

If you have reason to believe that the phrase; those who are Christ's, refers to only a part of His Body, then please share with us the scripture that teaches this.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52


JLB
 

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