Bible Study Absent From the Body

[for_his_glory]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Isaiah 65:17 “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind. AMP

hmm ... this verse has made me wonder what we, if anything, will know of our previous life. I don't know of a scripture that says, for example, I will know my father to any extent with the same knowledge I have of him now ... specific example, I will know he took me to church or a baseball game.

 

[for_his_glory]

Fastfredy0 These are the things we can only speculate and ponder on whether we will remember our former life here on earth or will it even matter anymore possibly being erased from our mind when we are face to face with Christ in the New Jerusalem. Old things are passed away and made new again as this could also possibly be true to the life here on earth we once knew.

 

[Fastfredy0]

These are the things we can only speculate and ponder on whether we will remember our former life here on earth or will it even matter anymore possibly being erased from our mind when we are face to face with Christ in the New Jerusalem. Old things are passed away and made new again as this could also possibly be true to the life here on earth we once knew.

I tend to agree. But the thought of meeting of loved ones in heaven in pervasive among Christians so I was wondering if there was scriptural reason for this. I don't know of any, though I like the idea (but then I like ... not agree to ... the idea of universalism). For fun I mentioned the verse to an ex-pastor and, though he was not given much time .... the best he came up with was, "Well, Peter and John knew Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration". Well, true enough, but that isn't an example of a dead person knowing another dead person in heaven/the after life. Yeah, there's Lazaus and the rich man and Moses talking across a big canyon (something like that) ... but that is a parable. So, I just thought I would see someone can validate the common message at funerals about meeting loved ones again and celebrating old times (so to speak).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I tend to agree. But the thought of meeting of loved ones in heaven in pervasive among Christians so I was wondering if there was scriptural reason for this. I don't know of any, though I like the idea (but then I like ... not agree to ... the idea of universalism). For fun I mentioned the verse to an ex-pastor and, though he was not given much time .... the best he came up with was, "Well, Peter and John knew Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration". Well, true enough, but that isn't an example of a dead person knowing another dead person in heaven/the after life. Yeah, there's Lazaus and the rich man and Moses talking across a big canyon (something like that) ... but that is a parable. So, I just thought I would see someone can validate the common message at funerals about meeting loved ones again and celebrating old times (so to speak).

Who wants to remember all our sins.
I'll pass on that.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Who wants to remember all our sins.
I'll pass on that.

God remembers them ... but I get your point.

My main point is that people by default say we will meet again in heaven with the idea that we will recall our previous relationships on earth. Isaiah 65:17 makes me question that. I just wondered if anyone knew a verse to creditably establish that we will recall our previous relationships on earth.

Aside: I don't count David saying you will be with his baby son who died as substantial evidence for instance.
Aside2: The idea of hugging my dad with the recall of our previous relationship on earth does seem desirable.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with you, though I have never before debated this with anyone.

 

[for_his_glory]

I tend to agree. But the thought of meeting of loved ones in heaven in pervasive among Christians so I was wondering if there was scriptural reason for this. I don't know of any, though I like the idea (but then I like ... not agree to ... the idea of universalism). For fun I mentioned the verse to an ex-pastor and, though he was not given much time .... the best he came up with was, "Well, Peter and John knew Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration". Well, true enough, but that isn't an example of a dead person knowing another dead person in heaven/the after life. Yeah, there's Lazaus and the rich man and Moses talking across a big canyon (something like that) ... but that is a parable. So, I just thought I would see someone can validate the common message at funerals about meeting loved ones again and celebrating old times (so to speak).

It's just one of those things we will just have to wait and see as I don't think there is any scripture about this that I know of.

 

[for_his_glory]

(but then I like ... not agree to ... the idea of universalism).

Universal Church of God is a Metaphysical Fellowship Church embracing all religions, all cultures, and all philosophies. As an autonomous New Spirituality Church as they teach a theology built upon the foundation of truth as revealed in the Spiritual teachings of the World's religions, while also celebrating and assimilating the contributions and insight of Science, the Arts and Philosophy.

We know there is only one Lord, one Faith and one baptism and anything apart from that is not of God or the doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught.

 

[for_his_glory]

God remembers them ... but I get your point.

My main point is that people by default say we will meet again in heaven with the idea that we will recall our previous relationships on earth. Isaiah 65:17 makes me question that. I just wondered if anyone knew a verse to creditably establish that we will recall our previous relationships on earth.

Aside: I don't count David saying you will be with his baby son who died as substantial evidence for instance.
Aside2: The idea of hugging my dad with the recall of our previous relationship on earth does seem desirable.

Matthew 22:23-30 The Sadducees ask Jesus about the resurrection and seven brothers that married the first brothers wife as none of them had children. They asked whose wife will she be in the resurrection. Jesus answered saying, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

All angels were created to be holy, enjoying the presence of God (Matthew 18:10) and the beauty of heaven (Mark 13:32). We are to be like the angels in heaven.

Absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.....but will be like the angels of God in heaven when we are in the New Jerusalem being now holy and enjoying the presence of the Lord. Now add that to Revelation 21:4 I don't think we will have any memory of our former selves or those we knew on earth. Nice thoughts are good, but yet only things we ponder as all things will pass away.

 

[Fastfredy0]

IMO I do not think we will know each other like we do on this present earth, but yet we are left only to ponder.

Funny, I was just thinking an hour ago or so about not having wives in heaven (imagine, no more nagging j/k) and if that applied ... to some degree I suppose.

I am with you ... "I do not think we will know each other like we do on this present earth".

Aside: I don't think either of us should write instructions on what to say at a funeral.

 

[for_his_glory]

Funny, I was just thinking an hour ago or so about not having wives in heaven (imagine, no more nagging j/k) and if that applied ... to some degree I suppose.

I am with you ... "I do not think we will know each other like we do on this present earth".

Aside: I don't think either of us should write instructions on what to say at a funeral.

We wives would not have to nag if you husbands would just finish your honey-do-list

 

[daninthelionsden]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

If my book sells then I intend to delve into this matter of the after-life and what might be one's new roles in serving the kingdom.

 

[Quantrill]

Isaiah 65:17 “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind. AMP

hmm ... this verse has made me wonder what we, if anything, will know of our previous life. I don't know of a scripture that says, for example, I will know my father to any extent with the same knowledge I have of him now ... specific example, I will know he took me to church or a baseball game.

It doesn't make sense to me that in Heaven we can no longer remember our lives on this earth. God has gone through much in the history of the human race to bring us to Heaven. It doesn't make sense that we shouldn't remember it. What good is a trial or maturity if you can't remember the road travelled?

We will always be saved sinners. How can we forget that? What good are the nail prints in Christ's hand or the hole in his side? Will we have to continually ask Him what are those? It just doesn't make sense to me that God would do that. We must know where we came from.

That being said, the new heavens and earth will be so glorious that our attention will certainly always be occupied on that. And we don't have the words here to even offer a description.

We can't imagine now what it is like to have a glorified body and be sinless. Can't do it. But we will one day. I don't think this involves memory erasure. But we will have perfect understanding of our history and relationships. My opinion.

Quantrill

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If my book sells then I intend to delve into this matter of the after-life and what might be one's new roles in serving the kingdom.

Just have a chapter about Ralph.
It will sell.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It doesn't make sense to me that in Heaven we can no longer remember our lives on this earth. God has gone through much in the history of the human race to bring us to Heaven. It doesn't make sense that we shouldn't remember it. What good is a trial or maturity if you can't remember the road travelled?

We will always be saved sinners. How can we forget that? What good are the nail prints in Christ's hand or the hole in his side? Will we have to continually ask Him what are those? It just doesn't make sense to me that God would do that. We must know where we came from.

That being said, the new heavens and earth will be so glorious that our attention will certainly always be occupied on that. And we don't have the words here to even offer a description.

We can't imagine now what it is like to have a glorified body and be sinless. Can't do it. But we will one day. I don't think this involves memory erasure. But we will have perfect understanding of our history and relationships. My opinion.

Quantrill

What if when you get to heaven you want to see your wife but she doesn't want to see you?
How about a girl you find unattractive that used to chase you down the street.
She sees you in heaven and the chasing starts all over again.
God has these things figured out ahead of time.

 

[for_his_glory]

If my book sells then I intend to delve into this matter of the after-life and what might be one's new roles in serving the kingdom.

That sounds like a good challenge, but it would have to be pure speculation as I don't think anyone really knows what we will be doing in the New Jerusalem. In my minds eye I see it as being like the Garden of Eden that we will all be a part of taking care of it like it was intended to be in the beginning with Adam and Eve.

 

[for_his_glory]

It doesn't make sense to me that in Heaven we can no longer remember our lives on this earth. God has gone through much in the history of the human race to bring us to Heaven. It doesn't make sense that we shouldn't remember it. What good is a trial or maturity if you can't remember the road travelled?

We will always be saved sinners. How can we forget that? What good are the nail prints in Christ's hand or the hole in his side? Will we have to continually ask Him what are those? It just doesn't make sense to me that God would do that. We must know where we came from.

That being said, the new heavens and earth will be so glorious that our attention will certainly always be occupied on that. And we don't have the words here to even offer a description.

We can't imagine now what it is like to have a glorified body and be sinless. Can't do it. But we will one day. I don't think this involves memory erasure. But we will have perfect understanding of our history and relationships. My opinion.

Quantrill

I have many good memories of things past, but bad memories also that I would rather have erased from my mind. We will never know until we are in His glorious presence and I don't think our life here on earth will matter anymore anyway.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

From what I get out of my Scripture reading, and yes it is my opinion, that we will be made new completely, including our memory.
What I mean is we will all have the love of God first and foremost.
Then we will love each other.
How does that work?
No flesh to interfere.
I will love seeing my wife in her new body, and I will love spending time with her, but I will no longer have sexual thoughts.
But I will also love people I never really got along with or desired to get along with.
There will no longer be a difference.
We are all made in the glory of God and we all love each other.
Yes, it will be new.

 

[Fastfredy0]

It doesn't make sense to me that in Heaven we can no longer remember our lives on this earth. God has gone through much in the history of the human race to bring us to Heaven. It doesn't make sense that we shouldn't remember it.

Makes sense to not recall our sin nature (evil past) to me (not that that is a biblical argument). I would think that if we are to be made in Christ's image (Romans 8:29) then the less we know about evil the better. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was the initial problem. Taken literally, knowledge of evil is a bad thing. Also, the knowledge of evil could make us eternally despondent for sins washed away and Bible says "no more tears". Again, who knows.

Isaiah 65:17
“Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.
The verse say And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind ... this strongly supports the idea that we won't recall the past. To refute this verse best one would have to give scriptural evidence to the contrary.
Scripture > "makes sense" mathematically speaking

What good is a trial or maturity if you can't remember the road travelled?

For Christians, so rewards can be granted for what Christ did through us. It does 'make sense' that we know what we are on trial for, but after the trial the memories could be erased ... admittedly, pure supposition. Hmmm, I grant the 'good' angels have knowledge of our evil and then, why not us.

We will always be saved sinners. How can we forget that?

How is easy, God is all powerful.

What good are the nail prints in Christ's hand or the hole in his side? Will we have to continually ask Him what are those? It just doesn't make sense to me that God would do that. We must know where we came from.

Interesting point. Seems to make sense to me. Again, it is not a scriptural point like Isaiah 65:17.

Thanks for your thoughts.