Agape Love is the Type Used to Love the Darkness?

[TibiasDad]

I just don't know how a person can make a choice for doing the opposite.

Given the sinful nature with which we are born, we are prone to sin and the more we sin, the more it has a hold on our abilities to think clearly and adjudicate. For those who are raised in a Christian way of life, this process can be mitigated to one degree or another, but all of us fall to sin at some point and in some way and cannot but follow sins lead until we are filled with the Spirit's power. Only then are we set free from the dominion of sin. We choose what we do, because sin is a liar and deceives us as to what is valuable. We are blinded by sin until the Holy Spirit illuminates our eyes. God's grace goes before us and grants us the capacity to see that which we naturally cannot see. Until this happens, we cannot do the opposite!

Doug

 

[Hopeful]

Not that I disagree, but what leads you to think fervency is necessary? Again, not trying to argue, just wanting to understand what you mean by fervent and why you think it's part of agape.

I feel that God's love is so heartfelt, serious, that it cannot be swayed by anything.
Our love for Him must mirror that kind of fervor.

 

[Hopeful]

Given the sinful nature with which we are born, we are prone to sin and the more we sin, the more it has a hold on our abilities to think clearly and adjudicate. For those who are raised in a Christian way of life, this process can be mitigated to one degree or another, but all of us fall to sin at some point and in some way and cannot but follow sins lead until we are filled with the Spirit's power. Only then are we set free from the dominion of sin. We choose what we do, because sin is a liar and deceives us as to what is valuable. We are blinded by sin until the Holy Spirit illuminates our eyes. God's grace goes before us and grants us the capacity to see that which we naturally cannot see. Until this happens, we cannot do the opposite!

Doug

Thank God for re-birth !
I love being free from Adam's nature.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Romans 7:15-20​

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 7:15-20​

If you are citing Paul's recollections of being under the law, and still in the flesh, you and I are out of sync.

 

[Hospes]

Given the sinful nature with which we are born, we are prone to sin and the more we sin, the more it has a hold on our abilities to think clearly and adjudicate. For those who are raised in a Christian way of life, this process can be mitigated to one degree or another, but all of us fall to sin at some point and in some way and cannot but follow sins lead until we are filled with the Spirit's power. Only then are we set free from the dominion of sin. We choose what we do, because sin is a liar and deceives us as to what is valuable. We are blinded by sin until the Holy Spirit illuminates our eyes. God's grace goes before us and grants us the capacity to see that which we naturally cannot see. Until this happens, we cannot do the opposite!

Doug

I hope this does not unsettle you , but I really do believe we are closer in doctrine than what may seem at first!

I agree with everything you write here, with one tweak: I do not think we "do the opposite" after our eyes have been illuminated. In the experience of gaining sight, we see the value/worth/beauty - i.e. the Glory of God - and we choose it as our greatest treasure. You could say we find it irresistible.

That last statement was meant to be a good-natured dig; please forgive me!

 

[Hospes]

I feel that God's love is so heartfelt, serious, that it cannot be swayed by anything.
Our love for Him must mirror that kind of fervor.

Referring back to Jesus' parable of buried treasure, the fervor you write of is what I think the man felt about the treasure he found. Just like him, we see God's glory in the Gospel of Jesus - an immense treasure! -and we can't help but have fervor, a growing love for God that moves toward consuming all our heart, spirit, and mind.

 

[TibiasDad]

I hope this does not unsettle you , but I really do believe we are closer in doctrine than what may seem at first!

I agree with everything you write here, with one tweak: I do not think we "do the opposite" after our eyes have been illuminated. In the experience of gaining sight, we see the value/worth/beauty - i.e. the Glory of God - and we choose it as our greatest treasure. You could say we find it irresistible.

That last statement was meant to be a good-natured dig; please forgive me!

Well, in all good nature, I actually said, "God's grace goes before us and grants us the capacity to see that which we naturally cannot see. Until this happens, we cannot do the opposite!"

I only assert that the potential for doing the something other than, i.e., opposite, what we have been doing. Irresistibility is an impossible concept to prove, because the fact that someone does something is not evidence that he could do no other. Volition is non-existent if there is no real potential for an opposite reaction.

So it's your choice to make which option you will take,

Doug

 

[Hospes]

Well, in all good nature, I actually said, "God's grace goes before us and grants us the capacity to see that which we naturally cannot see. Until this happens, we cannot do the opposite!"

I only assert that the potential for doing the something other than, i.e., opposite, what we have been doing. Irresistibility is an impossible concept to prove, because the fact that someone does something is not evidence that he could do no other. Volition is non-existent if there is no real potential for an opposite reaction.

So it's your choice to make which option you will take,

Doug

TD, before I forget and get in another argument with you , I do want to thank you for your graciousness in our interaction and want you to know I have come to regard you highly. Sometimes these boards can be pretty unpleasant, so I appreciate that we worked out a way to make our interaction a joy (at least to me!). Again, thank you.

 

[TibiasDad]

TD, before I forget and get in another argument with you , I do want to thank you for your graciousness in our interaction and want you to know I have come to regard you highly. Sometimes these boards can be pretty unpleasant, so I appreciate that we worked out a way to make our interaction a joy (at least to me!). Again, thank you.

Hospes,
Yes, you are correct, "sometimes these boards can be pretty unpleasant", and I am equally glad to have a civil partner in conversation. You remind me of another such person over on CARM forums, a Calvinist with whom I disagree, but with whom I could talk indefinitely with great enjoyment. If I didn't know better, I would think you were him! He also would say of us that 'we, as a Calvinist and Arminian, are a lot closer in belief than many of us are willing to admit.' There are times I can agree with that, and others that I'm not so sure because of the logical conclusions that each tend to imply. Be that as it may, I appreciate your efforts as well and look forward to agreeing to disagree agreeabley!

Doug