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Bible Study Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible

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ezra

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why would they c all you a mormon ?
 

ezra

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OK, here comes your flogging :lol

To start with you said a child that does not know right from wrong can not be held accountable. Can you explain then why all the firstborn males in Exodus 12:29 were killed? Only God knows the heart as this is why He loved Jacob, but hated Esau. For the rest about being a spirit being before we became flesh is what Mormons teach as it is not found in scripture.
who are you to say here comes a flogging ? i mean really
 

iLOVE

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Grace and mercy - all children go to heaven.

Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. Exodus 30:14

God commanded those who were twenty years old and above to pay a ransom for their souls because anyone nineteen years and below were consider by God to be children and were under the protective head of the household. If he was only nineteen he was not old enough to pay a ransom for his own soul, he was still covered under his fathers ransom.

God will confirm this again in two other places of scripture. I am a firm believer in the "two witness theory," which is that there should be at least two scriptures to verify any Bible teaching that we use.

He decided to punish them by allowing them to die in the Wilderness. Israel was condemned to wander for the next forty years in the Wilderness while these people died. But God did not sentence everyone to die in the Wilderness. Along with Joshua, Caleb and their families he spared the children of those that had sinned against him. Anyone who was twenty years and older was condemned to die in the Wilderness because God held them accountable for their sin against him. But God in his mercy spared the children. Anyone who was nineteen years and under were spared and not held accountable because God saw them as children. Here are some of the scriptures to confirm this.

Num 14:29: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

We can tell that he would destroy those who were twenty and older and spare those who were nineteen years and younger but, how does this prove accountability? Maybe he just picked a random number to spare and went by that? Well lets look in Deuteronomy and see what it says concerning their accountability.

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This scripture is speaking of the same thing that we just read about in Numbers 14:29. It is speaking of all Israel who was considered by the Lord to not be held accountable for the sins of Israel. In this verse he says because they had no knowledge between good and evil. This clearly shows us that in Gods view anyone who is under twenty years old is insufficient when it comes to making decisions about what is good and evil. He did not hold them accountable for themselves.
 

for_his_glory

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Not a Mormon, just a child of God, I have no denomination.
Moses warned Pharaoh, Pharaoh would not let His people go.
Pharaoh cursed His own people, when he said that the first born of Moses people will die.
Regardless, the children that died would not be held accountable.
How did God know Esau's heart if he hadn't been born yet?

Rev.12:1-5 expands eons of time.
1st heaven and earth age:
Saw a woman in heaven and upon her head a crown of 12 stars, (mother Israel)
She being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. ( birth of a new age)
Isa.66:7,8
Before she travailed she brought forth, before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such
a thing?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion travailed she brought forth her children.
Back to Rev.12:1-5
And there appeared another wonder in heaven, a great red dragon, Satan.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth, ( left their first estate, Jude 6)
Job 38:4-7
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?.....
Whereupon are the foundations fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof,
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Back to Rev.12:1-5
And the Dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child, as soon as it was born.
She brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne (Jesus, crucified)

The flogging wasn't too bad, I have been called worst than a Mormon.:yes
I was teasing about the flogging as I put a laughing smiley face at the end of that sentence. I never called you a Mormon as I said the teaching on spirit beings is what Mormons teach, which is a false doctrine.

As far as three heavens I agree with that and do have the scriptures to support that, but three earth ages are only taught by Pastors Arnold and Dennis Murry from The Shepard's Chapel and are only theories never proven in scripture.

Rev 12:1-5 expands from the time of Jacob/Israel to the time of Christ return. The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.


 

for_his_glory

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why would they c all you a mormon ?
I never called anyone a Mormon. I said it is the Mormon church that teaches humans exist as spirit beings before their birth.
 

for_his_glory

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Exodus 11:4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: 5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Deuteronomy 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: (Read from vs. 24-37)

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

I just can't get past these scriptures especially Psalms 58:3 and Hosea 4:6 where it says I will forget thy children. Are some babies born to wickedness like the children of Egypt in order to show God's sovereignty that all things are under His control and to what He alone purposes? I'm not sure. We would like to think God would save all babies as He is a loving God, but yet His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.
 

wondering

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How did I rip the context of Hosea 4:6, 7 to shreds when it was God that said he would destroy those who would not keep His law and also forget their children. Sorry, but I don't see anything foolish or unlearned in those verses. How do we know the mind of God in all His righteous judgments.

Do you really think that a child from the time they are born and taught to reject God are truly going to go be with Him? This is only one of those unknown mysteries of God we can not fathom in His judgment. I would like to believe every baby that dies would go to be with the Lord, but I'm a student of reality and not of trying to rationalize God.
Are we talking about babies or kids that could understand about God?

You said above that some kids are taught to reject God...that takes a certain age....
 

for_his_glory

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Are we talking about babies or kids that could understand about God?

You said above that some kids are taught to reject God...that takes a certain age....
I'm talking about babies as from birth to 2 years are their informative years were they grow and start to recognize certain things shown to them like pictures and begin to relate to what is read to them or what they hear.

I relate this to the time of Pharaoh and how the children were trained to worship other gods even in infancy even up to today with all the occult's that are out there that teach their children paganism. This is where Hosea 4:6, 7 plays out.
 

ezra

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birth to 2 years where did ya get that? at birth all a baby can do is cry make sounds even at one a two all they know is what they learned.. they have no concept of why it is wrong . you can teach a 4 year old to cuss but he has no idea that its wrong
 

JLB

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Adams sin was imputed to every one of us as there is none that are righteous, babies included
I think that Adams sin is inherited as it passed on from the seed of the father.


JLB
 

ezra

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we do inherit the sin nature .but a child has no awareness of what sin is . to say a infant child will not go to heaven. is like saying a alcoholic never drinks
 

dianegcook

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I was teasing about the flogging as I put a laughing smiley face at the end of that sentence. I never called you a Mormon as I said the teaching on spirit beings is what Mormons teach, which is a false doctrine.

As far as three heavens I agree with that and do have the scriptures to support that, but three earth ages are only taught by Pastors Arnold and Dennis Murry from The Shepard's Chapel and are only theories never proven in scripture.

Rev 12:1-5 expands from the time of Jacob/Israel to the time of Christ return. The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.
I knew you were teasing, so was I.
No harm done, lol.

If you believe in 3 heaven ages, you should understand about the three earth ages also.

The Companion Bible has appendixes.
Guess you can Google it, it is appendix #146, The foundation of the world.
If interested.


I believe there is a gap, between Gen1:1 and Gen.1:2
God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was (became) without form(waste)
and void. Ruin

Was, Strong's #1961 Hebrew
Meaning, become

It could had been billions of years gone by, before verse 2

It became waste and desolate, during Satan's rebellion, the katabole.

Jer.4:23-
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens, and they had no light.

I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

The whole land shall be desolate, yet will I not make a full end.

This is when the dinosaurs died.
Dinosaur bones have been found in the Tundra, near the north pole.
They found one , with buttercups in its mouth.
I believe God shook the earth, they were killed instantly.
The earth is tilted on its axis, 23 1/2 degrees.
If it was straightened out, we would have the same weather all over the world.

2Pet.3:5-6
For this they are willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed by water, perished.

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of Judgment....

The firmament was above the earth.
It was like the earth was in a big water bubble.
Like a greenhouse

Then we have the earth age to come.
 

wondering

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I'm talking about babies as from birth to 2 years are their informative years were they grow and start to recognize certain things shown to them like pictures and begin to relate to what is read to them or what they hear.

I relate this to the time of Pharaoh and how the children were trained to worship other gods even in infancy even up to today with all the occult's that are out there that teach their children paganism. This is where Hosea 4:6, 7 plays out.
I think it's always dangerous to go beyond what scripture says.
It was Augustine that started this whole problem to begin with.
The Original Sin idea and how it sends one to hell. Which is why babies were baptized ASAP.

The bible does not speak about children...at least that I could remember in a way that sounds like they are lost.

An important verse to me is:
Mathew 19:13-15
13Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said
, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
15After laying His hands on them, He departed from there.



I'm one that does NOT believe we are imputed with Adam's sin but that we suffer from its effects.

Why do we Protestants insist on baptizing adults....and then wonder what happens to children?

So, should we be baptizing children?
 

for_his_glory

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wondering

I'm not going beyond what scripture says as I gave those scriptures in post #30 as I sort of lean towards these children being not of God. I could be wrong, but not sure that anyone can be certain.

I know what Jesus said in Matthew 19:13-15, but these children were brought to Jesus so He could lay hands on them and pray for them. It's like in some churches today where the baby is brought up before the congregation and dedicated to God as the Pastor lays hands on the child and prays over them and the congregation given the charge in helping the child to grow Spiritually in the Lord.
 

wondering

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wondering

I'm not going beyond what scripture says as I gave those scriptures in post #30 as I sort of lean towards these children being not of God. I could be wrong, but not sure that anyone can be certain.

I know what Jesus said in Matthew 19:13-15, but these children were brought to Jesus so He could lay hands on them and pray for them. It's like in some churches today where the baby is brought up before the congregation and dedicated to God as the Pastor lays hands on the child and prays over them and the congregation given the charge in helping the child to grow Spiritually in the Lord.
So the children that get prayed over are saved and the others are not?

Is this what you're saying?

What exactly does the praying accomplish?

You believe we inherit Adam's sin...as in that it's imputed to us personally? Did we sin or did Adam sin?

I repeat then....
The catholics are right then.
We should be getting our children baptized AT BIRTH.
 

for_his_glory

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birth to 2 years where did ya get that? at birth all a baby can do is cry make sounds even at one a two all they know is what they learned.. they have no concept of why it is wrong . you can teach a 4 year old to cuss but he has no idea that its wrong
Actually it's birth to three years according to the Center for Educational Neuroscience, plus you can ask any doctor.

Apparently you must agree with me then as you said yourself "even at one and two all they know is what they learn." How does anyone know the concept of right or wrong unless they are taught what is good or what is evil.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
 
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