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Bible Study Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible

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for_his_glory

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Well, I'll be speaking to a theologian of a mainstream church...let's see what he has to say about all this.

I keep telling those of calvinist tendencies that God is a God of:
Love
Mercy
Justice

I have to believe this...
I'm not Calvinist, just a blood bought child of God as I have no denomination or non-denomination affiliation.
 

wondering

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It's not forming a series of scriptures just to form a theory, but a study of the full context of the scriptures apart from what man teaches as I wrote this myself. This wasn't an overnight study, but days and hours put into researching all of this.

Let's start with Psalms 58:1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? 2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. 4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

There are many authors of the Psalms, but this verse is believed to be Davidic. Psalms Chapter 58 is about wicked judgement even from the womb (birth). It's the same in Isaiah 48 set in a Babylonian background of worshipping idols that Judah was being chastised for as they heard the words of the Lord, but yet rejected them. This is also the same in Hosea 4:6,7 as for there wickedness even their children are estranged from the womb and God will also forget their children.

I will let you feed on this for now.
Psalm 58:3 says that the men that are wicked are born sinners.

This is true...
Romans 3:10
There is none righteous, no not one.

We're all born sinners...
but we get our chance to be saved when we're adults.

In the N.T. families were sometimes baptized. It doesn't state anything about some children not being baptized.

I think I should remove myself from this discussion till I can understand it better.
 

wondering

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I'm not Calvinist, just a blood bought child of God as I have no denomination or non-denomination affiliation.
Yes, I know you're not...
Just meant to say that God is loving, merciful and just.
It does seem unjust to me to send a baby to be away from God...but this would be a natural feeling.
 

reba

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Psalm 58:3 says that the men that are wicked are born sinners.

This is true...
Romans 3:10
There is none righteous, no not one.

We're all born sinners...
but we get our chance to be saved when we're adults.

In the N.T. families were sometimes baptized. It doesn't state anything about some children not being baptized.

I think I should remove myself from this discussion till I can understand it better.
The lottery is chance Salvation is via Grace

Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
I trust Him for His Grace towards a child .
 

reba

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Is the Grace of God not enough? Is He not Just? Does He not care for the sparrow ?

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
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just jumping in here...i got very excited when i saw that reba had posted....

1 Corinthians 2:10-12

I lean Calvinist...but only because, as a Christian, I see Hell as an expression of God's justice and overall character and plan for humanity. so....

to paraphrase a calvinist text I read, its not a wonder that so many end up in Hell, its a miracle that God has seen fit to save The Elect. remember...Protestant Christianity 101: we are all born with the fallen, sin nature, naturally bent away from God, and only Jesus Himself can "fix" that situation.

so...I don't think Scripture speaks to an age of accountability, per se. I also think that God is merciful. In my own life, I think my inability (refusal? both?) to grow up on time and on schedule might explain some of the extreme grace God has shown me, especially since Jesus saved (is saving, will save) me. and...

I hate to come across as one of "those" Calvinists..."the frozen chosen," I believe is the catch phrase....but: Exodus 33:19 comes to mind for --all-- of mankind, of --all-- ages, maturity levels, mental states, etc.

:)
 

for_his_glory

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Psalm 58:3 says that the men that are wicked are born sinners.

This is true...
Romans 3:10
There is none righteous, no not one.

We're all born sinners...
but we get our chance to be saved when we're adults.

In the N.T. families were sometimes baptized. It doesn't state anything about some children not being baptized.

I think I should remove myself from this discussion till I can understand it better.
Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

"They" are those wicked babies that go astray as soon as they are born as this verse says nothing about men, but only infants.

Romans 3:10 is true, but what of a wicked child being estranged from the womb that does not grow up to have a chance to accept Jesus?

Some babies are dedicated to God in their upbringing from the day they are born while some are dedicated to Satan the day they are born and in their upbringing. Some may reach an age where they have a conscience decision to accept Christ and some may not.

Just because one, whether a child or an adult, is baptized in water does not save them. It's only by grace through faith in Christ that we are under God's salvation.
 

StoveBolts

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It's not forming a series of scriptures just to form a theory, but a study of the full context of the scriptures apart from what man teaches as I wrote this myself. This wasn't an overnight study, but days and hours put into researching all of this.

Let's start with Psalms 58:1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? 2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. 4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

There are many authors of the Psalms, but this verse is believed to be Davidic. Psalms Chapter 58 is about wicked judgement even from the womb (birth). It's the same in Isaiah 48 set in a Babylonian background of worshipping idols that Judah was being chastised for as they heard the words of the Lord, but yet rejected them. This is also the same in Hosea 4:6,7 as for there wickedness even their children are estranged from the womb and God will also forget their children.

I will let you feed on this for now.
I too quickly discovered that this was from David. It originates from when David went into the cave where Saul was sleeping.

David always writes about his experiences. In regard to this one,King Saul is doing evil in God's Kingdom. In this way, I do see a connection with the parable of the tares because the same question would be asked. Why is there evil in God's kingdom.

What do we know about Saul, and what do we know about David or their parents?
 

wondering

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just jumping in here...i got very excited when i saw that reba had posted....

1 Corinthians 2:10-12

I lean Calvinist...but only because, as a Christian, I see Hell as an expression of God's justice and overall character and plan for humanity. so....

to paraphrase a calvinist text I read, its not a wonder that so many end up in Hell, its a miracle that God has seen fit to save The Elect. remember...Protestant Christianity 101: we are all born with the fallen, sin nature, naturally bent away from God, and only Jesus Himself can "fix" that situation.

so...I don't think Scripture speaks to an age of accountability, per se. I also think that God is merciful. In my own life, I think my inability (refusal? both?) to grow up on time and on schedule might explain some of the extreme grace God has shown me, especially since Jesus saved (is saving, will save) me. and...

I hate to come across as one of "those" Calvinists..."the frozen chosen," I believe is the catch phrase....but: Exodus 33:19 comes to mind for --all-- of mankind, of --all-- ages, maturity levels, mental states, etc.

:)
I don't want to get into calvinism...
But, of course Exodus 33:19 is right!
Did you ever consider that God is merciful to whom He will be merciful based on our reponse to Him and our accepting His conditions? Consider this...
We are all born with a fallen nature...but we are not totally depraved. Even unbelievers could be good.
 

wondering

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I too quickly discovered that this was from David. It originates from when David went into the cave where Saul was sleeping.

David always writes about his experiences. In regard to this one,King Saul is doing evil in God's Kingdom. In this way, I do see a connection with the parable of the tares because the same question would be asked. Why is there evil in God's kingdom.

What do we know about Saul, and what do we know about David or their parents?
Didn't God ban the Israelites from entering the promised land but He allowed the children to enter?
How to find the verse?
 

StoveBolts

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Psalm 58:3 says that the men that are wicked are born sinners.

This is true...
Romans 3:10
There is none righteous, no not one.

We're all born sinners...
but we get our chance to be saved when we're adults.

In the N.T. families were sometimes baptized. It doesn't state anything about some children not being baptized.

I think I should remove myself from this discussion till I can understand it better.
So if this is true, all babies go to hell.
 

wondering

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So if this is true, all babies go to hell.
?
I see it as the opposite.
We're all born in sin.
When we're ADULTS we get the chance to save our soul.
A baby doesn't have this chance.

I meant...
The wicked are born in sin, as Psalm 58 says.
But so are the "good" people. We're all born in sin.
God cannot hold someone responsible for a sin they don't even know they commit.
 

StoveBolts

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Grace and mercy - all children go to heaven.

Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. Exodus 30:14

God commanded those who were twenty years old and above to pay a ransom for their souls because anyone nineteen years and below were consider by God to be children and were under the protective head of the household. If he was only nineteen he was not old enough to pay a ransom for his own soul, he was still covered under his fathers ransom.

God will confirm this again in two other places of scripture. I am a firm believer in the "two witness theory," which is that there should be at least two scriptures to verify any Bible teaching that we use.

He decided to punish them by allowing them to die in the Wilderness. Israel was condemned to wander for the next forty years in the Wilderness while these people died. But God did not sentence everyone to die in the Wilderness. Along with Joshua, Caleb and their families he spared the children of those that had sinned against him. Anyone who was twenty years and older was condemned to die in the Wilderness because God held them accountable for their sin against him. But God in his mercy spared the children. Anyone who was nineteen years and under were spared and not held accountable because God saw them as children. Here are some of the scriptures to confirm this.

Num 14:29: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

We can tell that he would destroy those who were twenty and older and spare those who were nineteen years and younger but, how does this prove accountability? Maybe he just picked a random number to spare and went by that? Well lets look in Deuteronomy and see what it says concerning their accountability.

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This scripture is speaking of the same thing that we just read about in Numbers 14:29. It is speaking of all Israel who was considered by the Lord to not be held accountable for the sins of Israel. In this verse he says because they had no knowledge between good and evil. This clearly shows us that in Gods view anyone who is under twenty years old is insufficient when it comes to making decisions about what is good and evil. He did not hold them accountable for themselves.
wondering
I love gives the verses that support the age of accountability here.
 

for_his_glory

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The lottery is chance Salvation is via Grace

Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
I trust Him for His Grace towards a child .
Was it not God that said His people perish for lack of knowledge because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

The shame was that God forgot their wicked children that were estranged from the womb as I would also think some of their children died in infancy being slaughtered in the battles we read in the OT. Do you really think all the Egyptian firstborn that God ordered to be killed including Pharaohs son will be caught up to Christ when He returns? Is it a loving God that would have these wicked estranged babies from the womb killed, or is it a just God in all His righteous judgements?
 

wondering

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wondering
I love gives the verses that support the age of accountability here.
God works in mysterious way!

I was thinking of Deuteronomy 1:39
Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

Perfect!
I'm so bad with the O.T.


This is a great verse.
And, put together with the N.T., I'd have to say it's what I believe.
 

StoveBolts

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?
I see it as the opposite.
We're all born in sin.
When we're ADULTS we get the chance to save our soul.
A baby doesn't have this chance.

I meant...
The wicked are born in sin, as Psalm 58 says.
But so are the "good" people. We're all born in sin.
God cannot hold someone responsible for a sin they don't even know they commit.
The shape and form 58:3 is taking on for me is this. David is best friends with Saul's son and David has done nothing but good to Saul. However, Saul is bent on killing David out of jelousy and fear. Saul knows that he did not keep God's commandments and David will take his place.

In verse 3, David recognised that Saul is in part a product of his upbringing. It goes in line with generational sin where the parents instill the wrong moral character into their children that they themselves posses.
 

wondering

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The shape and form 58:3 is taking on for me is this. David is best friends with Saul's son and David has done nothing but good to Saul. However, Saul is bent on killing David out of jelousy and fear. Saul knows that he did not keep God's commandments and David will take his place.

In verse 3, David recognised that Saul is in part a product of his upbringing. It goes in line with generational sin where the parents instill the wrong moral character into their children that they themselves posses.
Agreed. I spoke to this in post 78.
 

StoveBolts

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God works in mysterious way!

I was thinking of Deuteronomy 1:39
Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

Perfect!
I'm so bad with the O.T.


This is a great verse.
And, put together with the N.T., I'd have to say it's what I believe.
Yes, and within it's context we see that they are not accountable for their parents sin. However, they now have Torah which teaches good and evik. Thus, they are without excuse once they enter.
 
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