Bible Study Are The Laws Done Away With?

[JLB]

jews do not keep God's laws to be saved - never have - never will - they know God alone saves - not works

Couldn’t be further from the truth.


And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. Acts 15:1


Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— Acts 15:24



JLB

 

[JLB]

not so - not sure which christians and jews you personally know who do that - but i know of NONE -

jews do not keep God's laws to be saved - never have - never will - they know God alone saves - not works

neither do any christians i have ever heard of and certainly none i know personally

show me any christian or jewish site that says THEY as a collective group are actively keeping God's laws to be saved

Could you answer a question about what your experience with Judaism or Messianic Judaism requires concerning circumcision?

Does Judaism or Messianic Judaism require its followers to become circumcised, for any reason ?




JLB

 

[JLB]

not so - not sure which christians and jews you personally know who do that - but i know of NONE -

jews do not keep God's laws to be saved - never have - never will - they know God alone saves - not works

neither do any christians i have ever heard of and certainly none i know personally

show me any christian or jewish site that says THEY as a collective group are actively keeping God's laws to be saved

Here’s one group that believes the law of Moses with its dietary laws and Sabbath keeping are for Christians today.


Starts around the 8:45 mark.

JLB

 

[JLB]

not so - not sure which christians and jews you personally know who do that - but i know of NONE -

jews do not keep God's laws to be saved - never have - never will - they know God alone saves - not works

neither do any christians i have ever heard of and certainly none i know personally

show me any christian or jewish site that says THEY as a collective group are actively keeping God's laws to be saved

Could you address the questions and the post’s I made concerning this subject.


This is a good thread topic, and Christians today are really interested in understanding about God’s law and commandments.


As you know, I am on the other side of Calvinism and Once Saved always Saved, opposing it as false doctrine.


I believe we are called to practice righteousness and obey our Lord and His Commandments and Doctrine.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


I usually get accused on being self righteous and promoting a salvation of works by quoting this scripture and others.


So why don’t we discuss what His commandments are that we are to be keeping, and what the Bible says about the law of Moses.


Since you attend a synagogue and are involved in the Hebrew Roots movement, you are uniquely qualified to respond from a perspective of what these folks believe and teach.


Most people from this movement tend to lump everything under the banner of: The law of God.


Do you believe there is a difference in the law of Moses and The Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament?


Do you believe the 10 Commandments originated with Moses?





JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Could you address the questions and the post’s I made concerning this subject.


This is a good thread topic, and Christians today are really interested in understanding about God’s law and commandments.


As you know, I am on the other side of Calvinism and Once Saved always Saved, opposing it as false doctrine.


I believe we are called to practice righteousness and obey our Lord and His Commandments and Doctrine.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


I usually get accused on being self righteous and promoting a salvation of works by quoting this scripture and others.


So why don’t we discuss what His commandments are that we are to be keeping, and what the Bible says about the law of Moses.


Since you attend a synagogue and are involved in the Hebrew Roots movement, you are uniquely qualified to respond from a perspective of what these folks believe and teach.


Most people from this movement tend to lump everything under the banner of: The law of God.


Do you believe there is a difference in the law of Moses and The Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament?


Do you believe the 10 Commandments originated with Moses?

JLB

you aren't answering mine either so perhaps we are on different pages and talking past each other

 

[Truthfrees]

Here’s one group that believes the law of Moses with its dietary laws and Sabbath keeping are for Christians today.


Starts around the 8:45 mark.

JLB

for today yes - for salvation no - who says you MUST keep them for salvation?

 

[Truthfrees]

Could you answer a question about what your experience with Judaism or Messianic Judaism requires concerning circumcision?

Does Judaism or Messianic Judaism require its followers to become circumcised, for any reason ?

JLB

both know what God told abraham and moses about circumcision - and it is each individual's choice to do so or not - most do choose to do so - very few choose not to do what God told abraham and moses - no one ENFORCES it - they leave it between the individual and God

 

[JLB]

if i am not answering your questions then that is the best i can do - you aren't answering mine either

Please don’t make things up.


If you don’t want to answer my questions then that’s fine.


If you answer a question of mine then you can ask me a question, and we can have friendly dialog.


I responded to your question/statement with a biblical answer.


Now I’m asking you some questions.


Here is one from post 42 -


Could you answer a question about what your experience with Judaism or Messianic Judaism requires concerning circumcision?

Does Judaism or Messianic Judaism require its followers to become circumcised, for any reason ?




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Please don’t make things up.

If you don’t want to answer my questions then that’s fine.

If you answer a question of mine then you can ask me a question, and we can have friendly dialog.

I responded to your question/statement with a biblical answer.

Now I’m asking you some questions.

Here is one from post 42 -

Could you answer a question about what your experience with Judaism or Messianic Judaism requires concerning circumcision?

Does Judaism or Messianic Judaism require its followers to become circumcised, for any reason ?

JLB

questions answered in posts 45-47 - if you don't want to accept my answers then do not make things up

 

[JLB]

both know what God told abraham and moses about circumcision - and it is each individual's choice to do so or not - most do choose to do so - very few choose not to do what God told abraham and moses - no one ENFORCES it - they leave it between the individual and God

No, I disagree.


It was mandatory for Abraham and his descendants which include Moses.


If the children of Israel were to participate in the feasts or the sacrifices or anything else within that nation it began with circumcision.


He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” Genesis 17:12-14


again



And it came to pass on the way, at the encampment, that the Lord met him and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and cast it at Moses’ feet, and said, “Surely you are a husband of blood to me!” So He let him go. Then she said, “You are a husband of blood!”—because of the circumcision. Exodus 4:24-26



Do you or anyone within Judaism or Messianic Judaism believe the born again Christians are commanded by God to be circumcised, or be cut off as Covenant breakers?




JLB

 

[JLB]

questions answered in posts 45-47 - if you don't want to accept my answers then do not make things up

So this is your answer?

both know what God told abraham and moses about circumcision - and it is each individual's choice to do so or not - most do choose to do so - very few choose not to do what God told abraham and moses - no one ENFORCES it - they leave it between the individual and God

Why is circumcision which was mandatory under the law of Moses, now become optional?


If the laws of Moses are optional, then why do they spend so much time teaching people they are God’s commandments that we are to keep, such as the dietary laws, Sabbaths, feast days?



Here’s one group that believes the law of Moses with its dietary laws and Sabbath keeping are for Christians today.


Starts around the 8:45 mark.

JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

No, I disagree.
It was mandatory for Abraham and his descendants which include Moses.
If the children of Israel were to participate in the feasts or the sacrifices or anything else within that nation it began with circumcision.
He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” Genesis 17:12-14

again
And it came to pass on the way, at the encampment, that the Lord met him and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and cast it at Moses’ feet, and said, “Surely you are a husband of blood to me!” So He let him go. Then she said, “You are a husband of blood!”—because of the circumcision. Exodus 4:24-26

Do you or anyone within Judaism or Messianic Judaism believe the born again Christians are commanded by God to be circumcised, or be cut off as Covenant breakers?

JLB

God said to do it - they did it -

the answer to your last question is no - circumcision is a choice - and anyone who finds out what God wants usually does what God says

there are a few examples of times when individuals did not circumcise - and they corrected it - here are 2 such examples - Joshua 5: 4-7 - Exodus 4:24-26

 

[Truthfrees]

So this is your answer?

Why is circumcision which was mandatory under the law of Moses, now become optional?

If the laws of Moses are optional, then why do they spend so much time teaching people they are God’s commandments that we are to keep, such as the dietary laws, Sabbaths, feast days?

Here’s one group that believes the law of Moses with its dietary laws and Sabbath keeping are for Christians today.

Starts around the 8:45 mark.

JLB

each person chooses to obey or not - if you choose to make them optional that is your choice

if i choose to make them a part of my life because God said so then that is good for me

if you want to mandate for others what they should do rather than letting God deal with them about His laws then you are overstepping your authority

as i said jews and mjs believe Gods laws are for today but NOT for salvation

if you persist in trying to say that those of us who believe God's laws are for today are keeping them to be saved you are presenting a falsehood

if you want to read something legalistic into jewish and mj beliefs saying we are saying everyone MUST do as we do you are creating another false narrative

it is a pleasure and a blessing to do what God says - it is a risk to disregard what God says - you choose to obey or not - it is entirely between you and God

minute 8:45 of your video says the same thing i have been saying - God's laws are for today but NOT for salvation - the guy is encouraging people to see how good God's laws are and how applicable they are today -

if you see it differently than he does that is fine - it's between you and God anyway - it's none of my business which of God's laws you keep or don't keep

 

[Truthfrees]

Do you or anyone within Judaism or Messianic Judaism believe the born again Christians are commanded by God to be circumcised, or be cut off as Covenant breakers?

no - we believe God wants circumcision even today and we do it - we do not force anyone to do as we do - we leave the entire matter of refusing to circumcise between the individual and God

 

[Truthfrees]

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. Acts 15:1


Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— Acts 15:24

CERTAIN MEN said that - that is not a teaching of judaism or messianic judaism

show me a group today or in the past that says that

 

[JLB]

God said to do it - they did it -

the answer to your last question is no - circumcision is a choice - and anyone who finds out what God wants usually does what God says

there are a few examples of times when individuals did not circumcise - and they corrected it - here are 2 such examples - Joshua 5: 4-7 - Exodus 4:24-26

When did circumcision become optional, and why?

What changed?




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

When did circumcision become optional, and why?

What changed?

JLB

it was never optional - God says do it - you choose to do it or not

there are benefits to doing it - there are risks in not doing it

which laws you keep or don't are between you and God

 

[JLB]

each person chooses to obey or not - if you choose to make them optional that is your choice

if i choose to make them a part of my life because God said so then that is good for me

if you want to mandate for others what they should do rather than letting God deal with them about His laws then you are overstepping your authority

as i said jews and mjs believe Gods laws are for today but NOT for salvation

if you persist in trying to say that those of us who believe God's laws are for today are keeping them to be saved you are presenting a falsehood

if you want to read something legalistic into jewish and mj beliefs saying we are saying everyone MUST do as we do you are creating another false narrative

it is a pleasure and a blessing to do what God says - it is a risk to disregard what God says - you choose to obey or not - it is entirely between you and God

minute 8:45 of your video says the same thing i have been saying - God's laws are for today but NOT for salvation - the guy is encouraging people to see how good God's laws are and how applicable they are today -

if you see it differently than he does that is fine - it's between you and God anyway - it's none of my business which of God's laws you keep or don't keep

So you believe circumcision is God’s law for Christian’s?



JLB

 

[JLB]

it was never optional - God says do it - you choose to do it or not

there are benefits to doing it - there are risks in not doing it

which laws you keep or don't are between you and God

Yes to those who were under the law of Moses, they were not optional.


I agree.


However, today for born again Christians you are saying the law of Moses is up to each person, which means it’s optional.



JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

So you believe circumcision is God’s law for Christian’s?

JLB

i believe God's laws come with blessings and benefits for those who keep them - they are for ANYONE who loves God and His laws

God is no respecter of persons