What's new
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Bible Study Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

Mungo

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
73
Gender
Male
Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

The simple answer is No. They were part of the Mosaic Law given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai (also called Horeb - Dt 5). They were never given to Gentiles, or even to the Israelites before the Mosaic Covenant.
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day." (Dt 5:2-3 -RSV).

When the Old Covenant was abolish/ made obsolete/ abrogated (whatever word you like to apply) the associated Covenant Law was abolished a well.

The more complex answer is that the Ten Commandments fulfilled two roles:
1. They were the Covenant Law for the Old (Mosaic) Covenant. And as a legal code they are not for us - as explained above.
But
2. They also act as a summary (for the most part) of God’s eternal moral laws; laws that existed from the beginning.

For example "Thou shalt not kill" (murder). God's law against murder was a moral command from the beginning. That is why Cain knew he had done wrong by killing Abel (Gen 4).

Therefore as part of the legal code for the Israelites that command is abolished.
But as a statement of God's eternal moral law it is still valid for us all.

So when considering how the Ten Commandments apply to us were need to distinguish between the moral content (valid for everyone, for all time) and that which is not and thus applicable only to the Israelites.

I believe there are two parts of the Ten Commandments that are not moral commands, and therefore not valid for us today:
1. Seventh day Sabbath keeping; though I think there is a moral obligation to regularly set time aside to worship God as a congregation. just as God ordered the Israelites to do. (Lev 23:3)
2. The making of images (Ex 20:4 &Dt 5:8); God himself ordered the making of the serpent (Num 21:8) and God does not act immorally.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
13,801
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The only thing that has been fulfilled are the Temple sacrifices. We can not separate ten commandments from the 613 laws as seven of them were first given to Noah after the flood and three more added by God given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Parts of the 613 Mosaic Laws were given especially to the Jews, but the moral parts of the laws are still in effect until Christ returns.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.


Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood.
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew.
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
13,801
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

 

Edward

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
11,603
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

The simple answer is No. They were part of the Mosaic Law given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai (also called Horeb - Dt 5). They were never given to Gentiles, or even to the Israelites before the Mosaic Covenant.
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day." (Dt 5:2-3 -RSV).

When the Old Covenant was abolish/ made obsolete/ abrogated (whatever word you like to apply) the associated Covenant Law was abolished a well.

The more complex answer is that the Ten Commandments fulfilled two roles:
1. They were the Covenant Law for the Old (Mosaic) Covenant. And as a legal code they are not for us - as explained above.
But
2. They also act as a summary (for the most part) of God’s eternal moral laws; laws that existed from the beginning.

For example "Thou shalt not kill" (murder). God's law against murder was a moral command from the beginning. That is why Cain knew he had done wrong by killing Abel (Gen 4).

Therefore as part of the legal code for the Israelites that command is abolished.
But as a statement of God's eternal moral law it is still valid for us all.

So when considering how the Ten Commandments apply to us were need to distinguish between the moral content (valid for everyone, for all time) and that which is not and thus applicable only to the Israelites.

I believe there are two parts of the Ten Commandments that are not moral commands, and therefore not valid for us today:
1. Seventh day Sabbath keeping; though I think there is a moral obligation to regularly set time aside to worship God as a congregation. just as God ordered the Israelites to do. (Lev 23:3)
2. The making of images (Ex 20:4 &Dt 5:8); God himself ordered the making of the serpent (Num 21:8) and God does not act immorally.
I don't understand your point. Are you saying that Christians do not have to obey the 10 commandments? How in the world can we walk in love towards our neighbor and not follow the 10 commandments? How can we emulate Christ and take on His image and character....and not follow the 10 commandments?!

...and scripture says if you love me, you will keep my commandments...
 

Mungo

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
73
Gender
Male
I don't understand your point. Are you saying that Christians do not have to obey the 10 commandments? How in the world can we walk in love towards our neighbor and not follow the 10 commandments? How can we emulate Christ and take on His image and character....and not follow the 10 commandments?!

...and scripture says if you love me, you will keep my commandments...
I'm saying that they do not apply to us as a legal code for the old (Mosaic) Covenant. We are under a different Covenant. But because they mostly embody God's eternal moral law they are are for the most part a useful summary of those moral laws. But we have to discern which parts are still applicable. We will find that those moral laws are carried over into New Testament as part of the New Covenant.
(All quotes from the NAB)
1. You shall not have other gods besides me
3. You shall not bow down before them or worship them…..


Carried over in Acts 14:11-15
When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, “The gods have come down to us in human form.” They called Barnabas “Zeus” and Paul “Hermes,” because he was the chief speaker. And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, for he together with the people intended to offer sacrifice.
The apostles Barnabas and Paul tore their garments when they heard this and rushed out into the crowd, shouting, “Men, why are you doing this? We are of the same nature as you, human beings. We proclaim to you good news that you should turn from these idols to the living God, ‘who made heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them.


And in 1Thess 1:9
For they themselves openly declare about us what sort of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God

And Mt 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
See also 1Cor 12:2, 1Jn 5:21, Rev 9:20

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image ……
Not carried over.

4. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain….

Carried over in Eph 4:29
No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

And Mt 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. Let your ‘Yes’ mean ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ mean ‘No.’ Anything more is from the evil one.

5. Remember to keep holy the sabbath day..
Not carried over.

6. Honour your father and your mother…

Carried over in Eph 6:1-2
Children, obey your parents (in the Lord), for this is right. “Honour your father and mother.”

7. You shall not kill.

Carried over in 1Jn 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

And Mt 5:21-22
“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

8. You shall not commit adultery.

Carried over in Heb 13:4
Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers.

And Mt 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

9. You shall not steal.

Carried over in Eph 4:28
The thief must no longer steal, but rather labour, doing honest work with his (own) hands

10. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

Carried over in Col 3:9
Stop lying to one another

11. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house.
12. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.”


Carried over in Eph 5:5 (& see also Rom 13:9 & Jas 4:1-5)
Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
13,801
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Mungo don't you realize these commands were given by God to Noah way before their were any Jews or Gentiles?
 

Papa Zoom

Staff member
CF Ambassador
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
8,993
Gender
Male
God's laws still apply to us today as they are His laws and He never changes. But we're not "under" the Law we're under grace. I believe all of the Ten (except the Sabbath) were repeated in the NT.

We're not under legal obligation to keep the Sabbath BUT I believe that since the Sabbath was made for man, it's important to set aside one day of rest and reflection which is what I strive to do. It doesn't have to be Sunday IMHO. And I'm not legalistic about it. But God's laws are perfect and as such ought to be taken seriously and with reverence.

Real love fulfills the whole Law. Gal 5: 14 The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
 

Edward

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
11,603
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
I'm saying that they do not apply to us as a legal code for the old (Mosaic) Covenant. We are under a different Covenant. But because they mostly embody God's eternal moral law they are are for the most part a useful summary of those moral laws. But we have to discern which parts are still applicable. We will find that those moral laws are carried over into New Testament as part of the New Covenant.
(All quotes from the NAB)
1. You shall not have other gods besides me
3. You shall not bow down before them or worship them…..


Carried over in Acts 14:11-15
When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, “The gods have come down to us in human form.” They called Barnabas “Zeus” and Paul “Hermes,” because he was the chief speaker. And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, for he together with the people intended to offer sacrifice.
The apostles Barnabas and Paul tore their garments when they heard this and rushed out into the crowd, shouting, “Men, why are you doing this? We are of the same nature as you, human beings. We proclaim to you good news that you should turn from these idols to the living God, ‘who made heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them.


And in 1Thess 1:9
For they themselves openly declare about us what sort of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God

And Mt 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
See also 1Cor 12:2, 1Jn 5:21, Rev 9:20

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image ……
Not carried over.

4. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain….

Carried over in Eph 4:29
No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

And Mt 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. Let your ‘Yes’ mean ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ mean ‘No.’ Anything more is from the evil one.

5. Remember to keep holy the sabbath day..
Not carried over.

6. Honour your father and your mother…

Carried over in Eph 6:1-2
Children, obey your parents (in the Lord), for this is right. “Honour your father and mother.”

7. You shall not kill.

Carried over in 1Jn 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

And Mt 5:21-22
“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

8. You shall not commit adultery.

Carried over in Heb 13:4
Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers.

And Mt 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

9. You shall not steal.

Carried over in Eph 4:28
The thief must no longer steal, but rather labour, doing honest work with his (own) hands

10. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

Carried over in Col 3:9
Stop lying to one another

11. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house.
12. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.”


Carried over in Eph 5:5 (& see also Rom 13:9 & Jas 4:1-5)
Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
It's not a different covenant. It is a modified covenant. The Lord does not change and if long ago, He desired for any man to live to a basic standard of proper behavior, so much so that He even set it in stone for our reference (!), then you can bet that He still has the same desire for us today.

They sort of had to call the 10 commandments law, because there was no law before that. and so no way for man to know sin. Now when Jesus came, He did not abolish the law but rather fulfilled it. Jesus's accomplishment upon the cross did bring about a few modifications, but the 10 commandments very much still apply. It is within Jesus's character to walk and not violate any of the 10 commandments, and if we seek to take on His character, then we will respect the 10 commandments of our Lord, right?!

I know, itching to put a modern twist to OT stuff? Ok, maybe we could stop looking at the 10 commandments as "Law"...in this age, we can see the 10 commandments as"Teachings of the Lord"...and not be incorrect.

How's that? More palatable now?
 

Mungo

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
73
Gender
Male
It's not a different covenant. It is a modified covenant. The Lord does not change and if long ago, He desired for any man to live to a basic standard of proper behavior, so much so that He even set it in stone for our reference (!), then you can bet that He still has the same desire for us today.

They sort of had to call the 10 commandments law, because there was no law before that. and so no way for man to know sin. Now when Jesus came, He did not abolish the law but rather fulfilled it. Jesus's accomplishment upon the cross did bring about a few modifications, but the 10 commandments very much still apply. It is within Jesus's character to walk and not violate any of the 10 commandments, and if we seek to take on His character, then we will respect the 10 commandments of our Lord, right?!

I know, itching to put a modern twist to OT stuff? Ok, maybe we could stop looking at the 10 commandments as "Law"...in this age, we can see the 10 commandments as"Teachings of the Lord"...and not be incorrect.

How's that? More palatable now?
Scripture says we have new Covenant - Jer 31:31, Lk 22:20, 1Cor 11:25, 2Cor 3:6, Heb 8:8, Heb 9:35, Heb 12:24.

Heb 8:13 says In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (RSV).
What is obsolete and vanished away is the old Mosaic Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant still stands and God's third promise to Abraham (Gen 22:18) is fulfilled in the New Covenant.
 

tdidymas

God watches over us
Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
209
Gender
Male
Scripture says we have new Covenant - Jer 31:31, Lk 22:20, 1Cor 11:25, 2Cor 3:6, Heb 8:8, Heb 9:35, Heb 12:24.

Heb 8:13 says In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (RSV).
What is obsolete and vanished away is the old Mosaic Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant still stands and God's third promise to Abraham (Gen 22:18) is fulfilled in the New Covenant.
There is a general confusion about the "10 commandments" because there is a confusion on how they are to be used in the New Covenant relationship with God.

Paul writes "the law is good, if one uses it lawfully." This is a play on words, meaning essentially, in application for us: "the '10 commandments' are good, if one uses it the right way."

So then, we don't use it to make ourselves holy or to establish relationship with God, but rather we use it as a measuring rod to determine exactly where we are in our love for God, faith in Him, and the health of our soul.

Since John writes "this is love for God, to obey His commands," and Paul writes "the law is a tutor to lead us to Christ," in the same way that the law led us to Christ initially, it leads us more in the way of Christ as we deepen our relationship with Him in continuance of our repentance from sinful thoughts and attitudes.

Since love fulfills the law, we have responsibility to hold each other accountable to it - Gal. 6 - and so the "10 commandments" are still needed as the measuring rod. Paul did this in 1 Cor. and other places.
TD:)
 

JohnDB

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
7,213
Gender
Male
The Sabbath Day is always singular for a reason...there was only one.
It didn't happen every Saturday.

And it was the Day that Jesus was on the Cross.

Now not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as I have described it is still an absolute must.

So...
Where the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenant is over...(as described in the book of Hebrews) the keeping of the Decalogue isn't a bad thing whatsoever.
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12,767
Gender
Female
I'm saying that they do not apply to us as a legal code for the old (Mosaic) Covenant. We are under a different Covenant. But because they mostly embody God's eternal moral law they are are for the most part a useful summary of those moral laws. But we have to discern which parts are still applicable. We will find that those moral laws are carried over into New Testament as part of the New Covenant.
(All quotes from the NAB)
1. You shall not have other gods besides me
3. You shall not bow down before them or worship them…..


Carried over in Acts 14:11-15
When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, “The gods have come down to us in human form.” They called Barnabas “Zeus” and Paul “Hermes,” because he was the chief speaker. And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, for he together with the people intended to offer sacrifice.
The apostles Barnabas and Paul tore their garments when they heard this and rushed out into the crowd, shouting, “Men, why are you doing this? We are of the same nature as you, human beings. We proclaim to you good news that you should turn from these idols to the living God, ‘who made heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them.


And in 1Thess 1:9
For they themselves openly declare about us what sort of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God

And Mt 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
See also 1Cor 12:2, 1Jn 5:21, Rev 9:20

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image ……
Not carried over.

4. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain….

Carried over in Eph 4:29
No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

And Mt 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. Let your ‘Yes’ mean ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ mean ‘No.’ Anything more is from the evil one.

5. Remember to keep holy the sabbath day..
Not carried over.

6. Honour your father and your mother…

Carried over in Eph 6:1-2
Children, obey your parents (in the Lord), for this is right. “Honour your father and mother.”

7. You shall not kill.

Carried over in 1Jn 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

And Mt 5:21-22
“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

8. You shall not commit adultery.

Carried over in Heb 13:4
Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers.

And Mt 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

9. You shall not steal.

Carried over in Eph 4:28
The thief must no longer steal, but rather labour, doing honest work with his (own) hands

10. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

Carried over in Col 3:9
Stop lying to one another

11. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house.
12. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.”


Carried over in Eph 5:5 (& see also Rom 13:9 & Jas 4:1-5)
Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
I think I understand your point.
It would be easier just to say that we are no longer under the Law of Moses, which would be the 613 laws in the O.T.

However, we ARE under the moral laws because God is a moral being and the moral law will never be abolished.

My question to you would be:
Why was no. 5 not carried over?
(Remember to keep holy the Sabbath)
 

HeIsRisen2018

Straight out of Hufflepuff house :D
Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
14,386
Gender
Female
The Sabbath Day is always singular for a reason...there was only one.
It didn't happen every Saturday.

And it was the Day that Jesus was on the Cross.

Now not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as I have described it is still an absolute must.

So...
Where the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenant is over...(as described in the book of Hebrews) the keeping of the Decalogue isn't a bad thing whatsoever.





Although most of the things listed in this topic I do not understand as it's way too complicated for me to,.. this one I do believe that I do. It doesn't mean that you need to take off work every Sunday, (or in my mind even attend church) it means that we're supposed to remember and dedicate our lives to serving God during special times that we set aside for Him. Which in my mind should be daily even though for me it isn't always. Am I on the right track with this?





As for the question do the Ten Commandments still apply to us today? That's a great big fat YES to me. Why would God set rules in place and then suddenly decide that we aren't supposed to follow them anymore? The only difference is that we aren't underneath the law when it comes to our salvation if we are in Christ. However, if we are in Christ we should want to try and keep His commands. John 14:15. :readbible
 

Mungo

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
73
Gender
Male
I think I understand your point.
It would be easier just to say that we are no longer under the Law of Moses, which would be the 613 laws in the O.T.

However, we ARE under the moral laws because God is a moral being and the moral law will never be abolished.

My question to you would be:
Why was no. 5 not carried over?
(Remember to keep holy the Sabbath)
Because whilst coming together to worship God is a moral issue, coming together on a particular day (in this case Saturday) to worship God is not a moral issue. It can be, and was, changed to the day Jesus rose from the dead (Sunday)..
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12,767
Gender
Female
Because whilst coming together to worship God is a moral issue, coming together on a particular day (in this case Saturday) to worship God is not a moral issue. It can be, and was, changed to the day Jesus rose from the dead (Sunday)..
What a great point !

I must say that it has always bothered me a little that we worship on Sunday. 7th Day Adventists worship on Saturday because it's one of the 10 commandments and they say WE Sunday worshippers are breaking a commandment.

But you're right,,,the others are moral in nature...this one is not.

Thanks for your comment.
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
37,240
Christian
Yes
Oh it would be nice if in the west we did have blue laws,not like it was but this time of 7 day banking ..
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,096
Gender
Male
Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

The simple answer is No. They were part of the Mosaic Law given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai (also called Horeb - Dt 5). They were never given to Gentiles, or even to the Israelites before the Mosaic Covenant.
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day." (Dt 5:2-3 -RSV).

When the Old Covenant was abolish/ made obsolete/ abrogated (whatever word you like to apply) the associated Covenant Law was abolished a well.

The more complex answer is that the Ten Commandments fulfilled two roles:
1. They were the Covenant Law for the Old (Mosaic) Covenant. And as a legal code they are not for us - as explained above.
But
2. They also act as a summary (for the most part) of God’s eternal moral laws; laws that existed from the beginning.

For example "Thou shalt not kill" (murder). God's law against murder was a moral command from the beginning. That is why Cain knew he had done wrong by killing Abel (Gen 4).

Therefore as part of the legal code for the Israelites that command is abolished.
But as a statement of God's eternal moral law it is still valid for us all.

So when considering how the Ten Commandments apply to us were need to distinguish between the moral content (valid for everyone, for all time) and that which is not and thus applicable only to the Israelites.

I believe there are two parts of the Ten Commandments that are not moral commands, and therefore not valid for us today:
1. Seventh day Sabbath keeping; though I think there is a moral obligation to regularly set time aside to worship God as a congregation. just as God ordered the Israelites to do. (Lev 23:3)
2. The making of images (Ex 20:4 &Dt 5:8); God himself ordered the making of the serpent (Num 21:8) and God does not act immorally.

The 10 Commandments did not originate with Moses.

Abraham kept the Commandments and Laws of God’s kingdom, 430 years before Moses gave the law.


  • because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4



Cain was guilty of violating the 5th Commandment, you shall not murder, in the days of Adam.


Lucifer for was guilty of covetousness, desiring to exalt himself to God’s throne and to be worshipped, in which he was cast out of heaven along with those under his authority, before the Lord created mankind.


The Commandments are eternal.

The law of Moses was always temporary.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Purpose of the Law
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19


Here are some scriptures from the New Testament about the Commandments, for your consideration -


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8


His Commandments and Doctrine are about loving God and loving our neighbor.


Love does no harm to our neighbor.


If I say love my neighbor, but I’m committing adultery with his wife, I’m a liar.

If I say I love my neighbor, but am stealing from him, I’m not loving him, but hating him.

If I say I love my neighbor, then I murder him, is that loving him, or hating him?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,096
Gender
Male
Because whilst coming together to worship God is a moral issue, coming together on a particular day (in this case Saturday) to worship God is not a moral issue. It can be, and was, changed to the day Jesus rose from the dead (Sunday)..
The Sabbath was made for man to rest.

The weekly Sabbath points to the rest to come, which is the 1000 years we will have with Christ on earth, with no enemies, and bodies that contain no sin, in which to strive with.

When the law was added, the Sabbath became a commandment contained in an ordinance, to foreshadow its relevance, in that those who do not enter the rest to come, do not do so, because they have perished with the ungodly.


Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:1-6




JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,096
Gender
Male
7th Day Adventists worship on Saturday because it's one of the 10 commandments and they say WE Sunday worshippers are breaking a commandment.
The ministers and pastors and teachers all work for the Lord, and do the work that they have been called to do.

What sense does it make to have them work on the Sabbath, in clear violation of the commandment, that the 7th day folks claim everyone else breaks?

Not to mention the traveling.


And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:13-17



One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:5-6


  • One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.

  • Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.




JLB
 

2020 Hosting Fee

Total amount
$150.00
Goal
$667.40
Top