Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Are We To Be Watching?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00

veteran

Member
The pre-trib "secret rapture" theory says Christ's coming is "imminent", and can happen "at any moment." And for that reason, we don't have to be watching the events leading up to His return, but just be ready to fly away. And also, because we believe, Christ's wrath is not appointed upon us.

Let's see what Apostle Paul taught on that idea. Do you fit Paul's condition here so as to not experience Christ's wrath?

1Thes 5:1-10
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

What are those "times and the seasons" Paul speaks of? It's simply the signs and type of events our Lord Jesus gave us to be watching leading up to His coming. Are you watching that? Or are you content that Christ will rapture you out whenever He does come, so you simply go about your daily grind? Yet these Thessalonians Paul spoke to showed they already knew "the times and the seasons", and even understood that Christ's coming on the day of The Lord will happen "as a thief in the night".

But who will His coming be like that upon, as a thief breaking in at night? Those in Christ? Nope, it's not supposed to be like that for us who stay on watch like our Lord Jesus commanded us to do.

3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This "they" means the deceived. Paul says when they start saying, "Peace and safety" like real world peace has come, it's then that a "sudden destruction" will come upon THEM. Paul gives the "travail upon a woman with child" metaphor. God's Word uses that travail as a child idea as a spiritual metaphor to show deception. It's not about real women who have birth pangs in child labor. That "Peace and safety" represents a deception upon the deceived. It will be because they did not know what the times and the seasons were, and were not watching like our Lord said to do.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Here Apostle Paul shows that those who stand in Christ are not to be in darkness, that that day should overtake us as a thief breaking in at night. That's the opposite idea of thinking Christ's coming is to be "imminent", or at "any moment" like the pre-trib rapture doctrine teaches.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Since we are not in darkness, we are commanded to "not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober." So if one is NOT watching the times and the seasons leading up to Christ's coming, then it means to be in "darkness"! Simple, watch the times and the seasons of Christ's coming and you won't be in darkness; don't watch and you will be in darkness.

Boldly put, it means a believer CAN be in spiritual darkness if they are not watching the signs of Christ's coming. If you don't stay on watch, and spiritually sober as to the times and events happening, you can be in darkness and put yourself among the children of the night.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

When that false "Peace and safety" does come, many will misunderstand it, and will be spiritually drunken in it, thinking all is well and Salvation has finally come, for it involves the coming of a false messiah playing God. Those who are spiritually asleep will welcome it, and be in darkness as to the times and seasons, and will NOT be watching for Christ's coming. Many will instead think that false messiah is Christ having come, so no need to wait anymore they'll think.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
(KJV)

Our Lord has not appointed His servants to His wrath that He will pour out upon the wicked. So does that mean just forget about the warning Paul just gave in the previous verses to remain spiritually sober, not alseep, and on watch? Does that mean watching the times and the seasons isn't required?

The bottom line is:
Stay watching the times and the seasons our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave leading up to His return and you won't be in darkness. Christ's coming as a thief will not take you by surprise.

But don't watch, not knowing the times and the seasons, and you'll definitely be in darkness along with the children of the night. Christ's coming will then indeed surprise you as a thief breaking in at night.
 
veteran said:
This "they" means the deceived. Paul says when they start saying, "Peace and safety" like real world peace has come, it's then that a "sudden destruction" will come upon THEM. Paul gives the "travail upon a woman with child" metaphor. God's Word uses that travail as a child idea as a spiritual metaphor to show deception. It's not about real women who have birth pangs in child labor. That "Peace and safety" represents a deception upon the deceived. It will be because they did not know what the times and the seasons were, and were not watching like our Lord said to do.

Daniel 8;25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;and he shall megnify himself in his heart,and by peace shall destroy many;he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;but he shall be broken without hand.

I dont think anyone would be the least suspicious if another president stood up for peace just as long as he supports the Israeli goverment.Most all christians would go along with it as long as they dont know whats happening to the holy people in the promised land.Most people dont know whats going on anyway.


What do you watch veteran?
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Daniel 8;25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;and he shall megnify himself in his heart,and by peace shall destroy many;he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;but he shall be broken without hand.

I dont think anyone would be the least suspicious if another president stood up for peace just as long as he supports the Israeli goverment.Most all christians would go along with it as long as they dont know whats happening to the holy people in the promised land.Most people dont know whats going on anyway.


What do you watch veteran?

I'm watching "the times and the seasons" brother. The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have the materials ready to build another temple in Jerusalem. And some of the Islamic clerics are getting on board with the idea. That's in prep for the false messiah coming to Jerusalem per Matt.24:23-26. I'm also watching the alignment of nations given in Ezekiel 38 for the end. Don't forget that some of Obama's appointed aides are orthodox Jews, one who is a dual American-Israeli citizen who was an Israeli soldier.
 
veteran said:
Shilohsfoal said:
Daniel 8;25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;and he shall megnify himself in his heart,and by peace shall destroy many;he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;but he shall be broken without hand.

I dont think anyone would be the least suspicious if another president stood up for peace just as long as he supports the Israeli goverment.Most all christians would go along with it as long as they dont know whats happening to the holy people in the promised land.Most people dont know whats going on anyway.


What do you watch veteran?

I'm watching "the times and the seasons" brother. The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have the materials ready to build another temple in Jerusalem. And some of the Islamic clerics are getting on board with the idea. That's in prep for the false messiah coming to Jerusalem per Matt.24:23-26. I'm also watching the alignment of nations given in Ezekiel 38 for the end. Don't forget that some of Obama's appointed aides are orthodox Jews, one who is a dual American-Israeli citizen who was an Israeli soldier.

Ive surely have not missed the chief of staffs name.Emanuel
Having served in the Israeli millitary,Id say he is all for Israel's national security. ;)
 
Thanks veteran,

Here's a good verse:

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee (Rev. 3: 3).
 
i am pre-tribber and watch all the time. most of the churches that preach that also teach watch for the seasons and the arrival of the anti-christ.
 
jasoncran said:
i am pre-tribber and watch all the time. most of the churches that preach that also teach watch for the seasons and the arrival of the anti-christ.
With the red horse of Islam I would say that tribulation has already began.
 
mdo757 said:
jasoncran said:
i am pre-tribber and watch all the time. most of the churches that preach that also teach watch for the seasons and the arrival of the anti-christ.
With the red horse of Islam I would say that tribulation has already began.
no, it hasnt gotten that bad, islam has done this before, see the moorish conquest of europe. spain beat them back, and france never was held.

we fought the barbary pirates off tripoli in 1803, and guess what they were muslims! we fought muslims in the filipino insurection in the late 1890's till the early 1900's.
that is why the marine corps is called the leathernecks!
 
The tribulation begins with the persecution of the saints in Judea when the abomination of desolation is placed.

Daniel 11;23
And they that understand amoung the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

Not that many people on this board can undestand what these christians can understand.Theres just to many people on this board who think like the blind leaders in Judea .I also expect those christians will be put to death and none of us here in the US or other parts of the world will ever hear about it.
We will just keep doing what we always do.Working in a field or grinding at the mill .Marrying and given in marriage untill Christ comes.
 
jasoncran said:
i am pre-tribber and watch all the time. most of the churches that preach that also teach watch for the seasons and the arrival of the anti-christ.


I used to watch for the bad guys and never saw anything because I was looking in darkness, watch for Jesus.

When I did, the anti Christs and the sons of perdition became quite clear as Jesus brings light to dark places.

A son of perdition is someone who sells Jesus for profiteering like Judas Iscariot and there are 4 billion people who know who Jesus is but deny His deity.

So take your pick, they are already here on earth.

If God raptures us amen, but if Jesus returns to earth and stays with us 40 years, then if I put God in a box I will always deny the return of Jesus to earth if I'm not raptured.

So we must be careful not to put God in a box, even if all eyes see Jesus according to the flesh not all eyes will recognize Jesus.

Like the first time Jesus will be revealed by the Holy Spirit as He was hidden in plain view.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Ive surely have not missed the chief of staffs name.Emanuel
Having served in the Israeli millitary,Id say he is all for Israel's national security. ;)

Then you should be wondering why orthodox Jewish representatives among us are also on board with allowing Islam to persecute Christianity, in the holy land, and here in the West.
 
jasoncran said:
no, it hasnt gotten that bad, islam has done this before, see the moorish conquest of europe. spain beat them back, and france never was held.

we fought the barbary pirates off tripoli in 1803, and guess what they were muslims! we fought muslims in the filipino insurection in the late 1890's till the early 1900's.
that is why the marine corps is called the leathernecks!

The way I see it, the times have gotten that bad, because per those times in past history that was when we had a leadershiip that refused to put up with a religion that believed in killing anyone who refused to convert to Islam. Instead today, we have a leadership over us that is busy promoting Islam over Christianity, and is even trying to hide what the Communist resurrectionists just did recently on their May Day celebrations in the U.S. It's time to wake up and arm yourselves.
 
post a link on that. but yes i should have added that we are well on our way to being persecuted for believing the bible and what it says, even in america. obama loves to talk that he likes all religions on a equal footing but its not happening

most recent bias toward islam
major hasan denial
we cant call them muslim extremists
and now the wall street bomber
if i did that , i would have been arrested. not just "screened"
 
veteran said:
Shilohsfoal said:
Ive surely have not missed the chief of staffs name.Emanuel
Having served in the Israeli millitary,Id say he is all for Israel's national security. ;)

Then you should be wondering why orthodox Jewish representatives among us are also on board with allowing Islam to persecute Christianity, in the holy land, and here in the West.


Im a christian living in the west and Im not being persecuted.
Im more interested in prophecies concerning the US's involvment in the middle east.
What the US will do in Jerusalem and what the US will do to the muslim countries that come against the Israeli goverment.End time stuff like that.
 
MMarc said:
jasoncran said:
i am pre-tribber and watch all the time. most of the churches that preach that also teach watch for the seasons and the arrival of the anti-christ.


I used to watch for the bad guys and never saw anything because I was looking in darkness, watch for Jesus.

When I did, the anti Christs and the sons of perdition became quite clear as Jesus brings light to dark places.

A son of perdition is someone who sells Jesus for profiteering like Judas Iscariot and there are 4 billion people who know who Jesus is but deny His deity.

So take your pick, they are already here on earth.

If God raptures us amen, but if Jesus returns to earth and stays with us 40 years, then if I put God in a box I will always deny the return of Jesus to earth if I'm not raptured.

So we must be careful not to put God in a box, even if all eyes see Jesus according to the flesh not all eyes will recognize Jesus.

Like the first time Jesus will be revealed by the Holy Spirit as He was hidden in plain view.


I'm sorry to say, but covering your eyes so as to not be watching the events leading up to our Lord's coming IS LIKE PUTTING GOD IN A BOX. It's no different than saying, "Well, I'm not going to watch what's happening in the world to know when Christ's coming gets closer, I'm just going to go about my business and have faith He will rapture me out before all the bad stuff happens."

Doing that in essence is to box up all the warnings our Lord and His Apostles gave us in order to watch the events leading up to His coming. It is also to box up the majority of God's Word on these matters and silence The Lord in favor of following what men's doctrines on the pre-trib "secret rapture" have promised you instead. But if you want to do that, then go to. Have a good trip. That reminds of a Scripture in Isaiah of how many of God's people only wanted smooth lies preached to them instead...

Isa 30:9-13
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, "See not"; and to the prophets, "Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us."
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
(KJV)
 
jasoncran said:
post a link on that. but yes i should have added that we are well on our way to being persecuted for believing the bible and what it says, even in america. obama loves to talk that he likes all religions on a equal footing but its not happening

most recent bias toward islam
major hasan denial
we cant call them muslim extremists
and now the wall street bomber
if i did that , i would have been arrested. not just "screened"

Go to either American Family Network, or Worldnetdaily news about the May Day resurrectionists event that were blacked out of mainstream media news.

And for those who aren't aware yet, there IS a major blackout in the politically correct news media about many things going on in the U.S. that is getting very close to the "Newspeak" idea in George Orwell's book "1984". We are being attacked from within (using illegal immigration, which Brian Fischer of AFN has the percent coming into our nation that have criminal backgrounds). Now with Arizona tightening down on illegals coming into their state, with John McCain even turning around his stance to agree with enforcement, it is becoming easy to spot the real resurrectionist leaders in high places today who are speaking out against it. Funny how most of the elected officials speaking against Arizona's new law against illegal immigration are of the Democratic Party. I say that, and I don't claim to be a member of any political party.

One with a bit of wisdom today will be very careful what they believe being put out by the mainstream media outlets too, like ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, New York Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc. Ironically, even a select few journalists within those Leftist outlets are speaking up in favor of Arizona's new law against illegal immigration.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
veteran said:
Shilohsfoal said:
Ive surely have not missed the chief of staffs name.Emanuel
Having served in the Israeli millitary,Id say he is all for Israel's national security. ;)

Then you should be wondering why orthodox Jewish representatives among us are also on board with allowing Islam to persecute Christianity, in the holy land, and here in the West.


Im a christian living in the west and Im not being persecuted.
Im more interested in prophecies concerning the US's involvment in the middle east.
What the US will do in Jerusalem and what the US will do to the muslim countries that come against the Israeli goverment.End time stuff like that.

I think you might want to update your understanding on how far reaching the "great tribulation" is going to cover...

Rev 13:3-4
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
(KJV)

Rev 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(KJV)

Rev 16:14
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(KJV)

We're already seeing many persecutions against Christians in the primarily Christian West; well, it USED TO BE primarily Christian. It will stop being Christian as long as weak Christians refuse to stand up and make a difference. Write your congressional reps and senators, and if they won't listen, VOTE 'EM OUT.

The tribulation will be upon us in the U.S. also, for the dragon is going to reign from Jerusalem over all nations. That's what Revelation is showing. Can't just read "Judea" from our Lord's Olivet Discourse and omit His later warnings in His Book of Revelation about it coming upon the whole earth.
 
veteran said:
I think you might want to update your understanding on how far reaching the "great tribulation" is going to cover...

Rev 13:3-4
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
(KJV)
Its you who might want to update your understanding.
The jews have been wondering the world over after the beast for 60 years now.
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the whore sits.lThat city you can not make into the entire world and you can not move those seven hills anywhere .They were formed in Jerusalem before there was a Jerusalem .That beast is there and there it shall remain till it is destroyed so dont make these huge claims that that beast is the entire world.
 
the u.n. has far more reach then jerusalem. when we went into these countries, iraq both times. korea, and afghanistan and the balkans and so on. whose banner did we go under or fly?

the u.n. not the isreali banner.
 
Back
Top