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Arguments for/against premillennialism?

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A quote in support of premillennialism:


"Let the careful reader answer the following question, and he will see how eminently consistent with fact is our doctrinal position. How could John, under Divine guidance, well knowing the Jewish views that were current (which our opponents fully admit as we have shown), pen down the portraiture of a Messianic reign (Rev. 20:1-6 and 11:15-18), which in its plain grammatical sense corresponds so accurately with the prevailing Jewish opinions, unless such a sense contains the truth? God would not, could not, take the dearest cherished Messianic hopes and parade them in such an expressed sense to deceive believers, when He intended a different sense to be placed upon the words. God does not undertake that which, if perpetrated by a man, we would unhesitatingly denounce as dishonest, disreputable, and cruel." -- George N.H. Peters, The Theocratic Kingdom, vol.1, p.466
 
the current view of the chialism says that that grace ends and the law returns. oddly that goes against what the bible says on the law being a means to be right with god. it couldnt do it and it wasnt meant to. it was to point you to christ.he has come.
 
As you see that Day approaching...

It's all described in majestic detail if you ask me... The Day of the LORD, the Day of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
a day is a thousand years? show me that one in the bible? if that is the case then i want to do a thousand year long shabat service in isreal and the jews based their days on how god created the universe. their days start at sundown( when the sun goes down over the city of jerusalem)
 
the current view of the chialism says that that grace ends and the law returns. oddly that goes against what the bible says on the law being a means to be right with god. it couldnt do it and it wasnt meant to. it was to point you to christ.he has come.

There are normally different views around... can you reference some people?

I don't think the above point can really prove/disprove that the Bible teaches an earthly 1000 year kingdom.
 
As a thief in the night...

And that Day shall come as a thief in the night, and as travail upon a woman with child...
 
Things which shall be HERE AFTER...

IMO the other views tend to fly out the window rather quickly... ie, preterism, postmillennialism, and amillennialism... :)
 
There are normally different views around... can you reference some people?

I don't think the above point can really prove/disprove that the Bible teaches an earthly 1000 year kingdom.
that is because the only version of it taught today means theres a return of isreal with christ in the temple(thought not pushed just well cherry picked ) the law must return. i have met a man that graduated from seminary and teaches just that. the law returns.

when isreal is restored and this verse is used. it mentions the feast of tabernacles.
ezekiel 37
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

note vs 24.

is 66(note vs 20,21)
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

now then the law and the levites were done with when jesus died on the cross. reading like a man who has done some resaearch into the torah. this implies a return unto the law! jesus is our high priest and we dont need them anymore for that sin offering and worship we can go the the "temple" as we are the temple.
 
many premil use the idea of a day is a thousand years from peter. when peter wasnt defining a day


OK, fair enough, but it isn't like it isn't in the Bible:


[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
OK, fair enough, but it isn't like it isn't in the Bible:


[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
i know that but if you take the way its taught it presents a myriad of problems.ie the law must return. theres another view of that time that i cant find at present.
 
Walvoord's statement about the differences between historical premillennialism and its modern counterparts is the key which will unveil the true concept of the early church's views on the return of Christ. History reveals that the views of the early church on the second coming of the Lord differ vastly from the views of modern Dispensational Premillennialism. Vos indicates that the point of departure lies in the "parousia" (the presence or second return of Christ). "The substance of the matter is that Chiliasm divides the eschatological future following upon the parousia into two distinct stages, the one of a temporary provisional, the other of an eternal, absolute character. The old traditional view of orthodox theology, and the current interpretation of Paul know of no such dualism in the eschatological prospect; they make the eternal state, strictly so called, begin with the return of the Lord."5 In effect, Vos is stating that the early church viewed the chiliad as a time that would begin with the coming of Christ, which would usher in the eternal state of man, not a kingdom upon the earth.

that view is what i hold. the eternal state of man

http://www.newtestamentchurch.org/york/libraryfiles/HISMILL.html
 
The night is far spent... the DAY is at hand...

Here is 'point blank' proof directly from the gospel of Matthew 19 which shows us clearly that Israel will be reigning with Christ when the Lord Jesus Christ comes in His glory...

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Connect this with Matthew 25 and we know precisely WHEN the Lord Jesus Christ will sit upon the throne of His glory...

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..

How much clearer does it need to be..?

IMO this all stems from many in Christendom ignoring that which the Apostle to the GENTILES warned us to NOT be ignorant of lest we become wise in our own conceits..

How that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in..

How that they (Israel) are our (the church) enemies concerning the gospel and yet beloved according to GOD'S ELECTION ! ! !

Because the truth of the matter is that the DELIVERER shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB..

Don't ya remember.. after he wrestled with God all night, the Sun (Son) rose upon him (Jacob) and his name was changed to ISRAEL..
 
When you say Israel what do you mean?

The people in the boundaries of what we call Israel today?
(The land we call Israel today is not the land of promise to Abaham.)

Those folks which have the Jewish or Hebrew blood?
How much Hebrew blood 1/2 1/4 3/4 less?
Salvation is in the Blood of Christ. Can any one show me in Scripture when the blood in man vains saves?

A scripture that cought my eye/heart years ago now..

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
This is one of the many that made me look closer at what i knew to be truth.
A couple more...

Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.


Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 
The Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob...

Reba,

The Israel of the scriptures of course..

Jacob's twelve sons.. Any of that ring a bell ?

And of course with respect to the day of the LORD we can see the twelve tribes sealed with the seal of God in their forehead, according to Rev7.

Can you see that DAY approaching... The Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ ? Which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child ?
 
Eventide... to answer back in the same vain that you replied which of Jacobs sons are alive today?

What i am asking is what or how much Hebrew blood makes a person a Israelite?

Back generations the genealogy folks tell me there is Hebrew or Jewish blood in my family. So is salvation, following Christ, looking to the Cross not an issue for me. Is my salvation secure by the blood in my viens?

Personally i dont believe so.
 
As travail upon a woman with child...

Eventide... to answer back in the same vain that you replied which of Jacobs sons are alive today?

What i am asking is what or how much Hebrew blood makes a person a Israelite?

Back generations the genealogy folks tell me there is Hebrew or Jewish blood in my family. So is salvation, following Christ, looking to the Cross not an issue for me. Is my salvation secure by the blood in my viens?

Personally i dont believe so.

If you do not understand who Jacob (Israel) is according to the scriptures then all I can say is study the scriptures concerning Israel.

And they shall be saved in exactly the same we that we are.. By calling upon the name of the LORD, in that Day, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Can you see that Day approaching... Because it shall come as a thief in the night, and as travail upon a woman with child...

IMO that says it all... Amazing how the scriptures do that, isnt it ?
 
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