Arguments for/against premillennialism?

[nmwings]

Vague answer to a direct question. I fully grasp the reason you do not expound on the answer.

Then I will answer you: The Lord Himself said, “"I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This means He was not sent to the Gentiles.

What i am asking is what or how much Hebrew blood makes a person a Israelite? Back generations the genealogy folks tell me there is Hebrew or Jewish blood in my family.

This question you pose is like asking if a woman is pregnant. She either is pregnant, or she's not. She will never be "a little pregnant," therefore you will never be "a little Jewish." You either are Jewish or you are not Jewish. However, a Jew refers only to one tribe of Israel = Judah. You are probably not a "Jew" per se, but perhaps a Gadite, Simeonite, Naphtilite, etc. There are 11 other “lost†tribes out there and they have no idea who they are or that they even belong to Israel. You already know you are Israel by blood. You are fortunate because most people haven’t a clue. I get so tickled by people who adamantly deny they are "Jewish" but cannot prove that they are NOT! But YOU have that good fortune of knowing. But with that knowledge comes great responsibility because you are also without excuse: your ancestors stood at the Mountain and heard the voice of God. The benefits and blessings of that Covenant at the Mountain extend all the way down to you, today. But so do the curses. If you are not doing your best to obey the Voice from the Mountain, you are inviting the curses to come upon you.

So is salvation, following Christ, looking to the Cross not an issue for me. Is my salvation secure by the blood in my viens? Personally i dont believe so.

Paul had much to say on this subject and he said that the Jew does indeed have an advantage over the alien. This advantage is the law!

Rom 3:1What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.

 

[Butch5]

a day is a thousand years? show me that one in the bible? if that is the case then i want to do a thousand year long shabat service in isreal and the jews based their days on how god created the universe. their days start at sundown( when the sun goes down over the city of jerusalem)

4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (Psa 90:4 KJV)

In Genesis God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die. Adam lived 930 years, just short of one thousnad years or in the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.

This is both the ancient Jewish understanding and that of the early church.

The book of Jubilees chapter 4

'And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth
year [930 A.M.] thereof, Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he
30 was the first to be buried in the earth. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one
thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree
of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he​

31 did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.



The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Justin Martyr, Dialog with Trypho, chapter 81

For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ (Ps. 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8) is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.

 

[jasoncran]

so what is the greek for day? is it like the hebrew word yom?

so on that last day (thousand years) theres a long ressurection it will take that long to raise up the dead to judge them?that must then include the rapture which will take a thousand years too.

yom means age unless theres a number in front of it.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: The night is far spent... the DAY is at hand...

Here is 'point blank' proof directly from the gospel of Matthew 19 which shows us clearly that Israel will be reigning with Christ when the Lord Jesus Christ comes in His glory...

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Connect this with Matthew 25 and we know precisely WHEN the Lord Jesus Christ will sit upon the throne of His glory...

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..

How much clearer does it need to be..?

IMO this all stems from many in Christendom ignoring that which the Apostle to the GENTILES warned us to NOT be ignorant of lest we become wise in our own conceits..

How that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in..

How that they (Israel) are our (the church) enemies concerning the gospel and yet beloved according to GOD'S ELECTION ! ! !

Because the truth of the matter is that the DELIVERER shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB..

so dont tell any jew today about jesus? as that means they wont be of isreal any more they are off the church? so jesus is partial. he is coming to save a nation not people? zionism at its finest. we have modified gods word to save NATIONAL isreal.

like reba says what is isreal? im of isreal. yet according to you im not because im raptured away? you cant get around that your idea of the chialism means another whole gospel? jesus died for isreal or the whole world?what was isreal for? what were they to do? what is the church doing that isreal never really did do? isreal reached how many gentiles? few. the church has how many gentiles? billions.

dont confuse zionism with the bible. as a hebrew i dont and i wont. i have read what the sages said on the third temple and well this is what they say.

The Ramban1 notes that the three wells dug by Yitzchok hint at the three Temples the two that have been destroyed, and the third, which will be built when our righteous Moshiach comes, may it be speedily in our days.
"A well of living waters" alludes to the Temples, for they are called "living waters." When G-d first commanded that the Tabernacle be built, He said:2 "And you shall make for Me a Temple ([a holy place], and I shall dwell among them." Our sages3 observe that it would seem more appropriate for the verse to have said, "And I shall dwell in it." Why then does the verse say "I shall dwell among them"?
It means to teach us, say our sages, that G-d dwells within each and every Jew, that every Jewish mind and heart is a Temple to G-d.
There are two ways of serving G-d: drawing down from above, and elevating that which is below.
The Temple is termed a "well," because, like a well, the main services there involved elevating that which was below.
The service of Torah study is an example of drawing down that which is above. When a person conducts himself in accordance with the Torah, its light illuminates all his physical affairs. Torah is wholly "above," for it is G-d's wisdom and will.4 It illuminates what is "below," as it is written: "and Torah is illumination."5 All that is necessary [for the illumination to permeate this world] is for a person to conduct himself in accordance with the Torah.
The second kind of spiritual service is elevation from below, a prime example of which is prayer. Prayer elevates all that is below by purifying and refining it. This is like a well, drawing up from below, as it is written:6 "Well, arise!" Though the service of prayer, similar to a well, is from below to above, nevertheless it is to be permeated with the spirit of Torah, just as the study of Torah must be in accordance with the humility that permeates prayer, as our sages have said:7 "One should begin praying only after attaining a state of serious [and humble] demeanor."
Contemplating G-d's greatness during prayer helps one realize the true quality of Torah that it is G-d's divine wisdom and will, and therefore must be studied with humility. The verse8 states it thus: "My tongue shall but repeat Your sayings," like one who repeats exactly what he has heard. When one studies Torah, one should feel as if he were repeating [after G-d] the divine words which are Torah.
All this results from one's service of prayer. Similarly, one's prayer should be in accordance with Torah. This then is the meaning of "Garden springs; a well of living waters..." The spiritual service that resembles "a well of living waters" reveals the "garden springs" of the soul.
In summary: The three wells hint at the three Temples. The first and second Temples were destroyed because of our sins. This is the meaning of Eisek and Sitnah, argument and enmity [sins of baseless hatred that caused the destruction of the Temple]. Rechovos, "broad spaces" refers to the third Temple, which shall be eternal. The service of Torah is to draw down, and the service of prayer is to elevate.

 

[Butch5]

so what is the greek for day? is it like the hebrew word yom?

so on that last day (thousand years) theres a long ressurection it will take that long to raise up the dead to judge them?that must then include the rapture which will take a thousand years too.

yom means age unless theres a number in front of it.

The Greek and Hebrew are pretty much interchagnable. I don't think it's going to take a thousand years to resurrect the just. I think it's referring to the time of the earthly kingdom. End Times is not my strong area so I can't speak very deeply on it.

 

[jasoncran]

The Greek and Hebrew are pretty much interchagnable. I don't think it's going to take a thousand years to resurrect the just. I think it's referring to the time of the earthly kingdom. End Times is not my strong area so I can't speak very deeply on it.

uh no, the septugaint isnt a literal hebrew to greek translation and the jews did that for a reason as they said it wouldnt do the word justice as the hebrews have words that arent easy to translate.

that is important. so you do think that the judgment wont take a thousand years?

when christ spoke of his return it was a warning to his own and the world.in essence when you see me its either you are right with me and saved or damned to hell for eternity

 

[Butch5]

uh no, the septugaint isnt a literal hebrew to greek translation and the jews did that for a reason as they said it wouldnt do the word justice as the hebrews have words that arent easy to translate.

that is important. so you do think that the judgment wont take a thousand years?

when christ spoke of his return it was a warning to his own and the world.in essence when you see me its either you are right with me and saved or damned to hell for eternity

Can you back up that statement about the Septuagint? Especially since Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint.

 

[jasoncran]

Can you back up that statement about the Septuagint? Especially since Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint.

actually he was in judea and he didnt speek greek but aramiac and hebrew. from the jews themselves today. the septugaint is only in greek. hebrew died out in jesus' day and wasnt used when he was crucified?

from chabad.org

In a second attempt to translate the Torah into Greek (after an unsuccessful attempt 61 years earlier), the ruling Greek-Egyptian emperor Ptolemy gathered 72 Torah sages, had them sequestered in 72 separate rooms, and ordered them to each produce a translation. On the 8th of Tevet of the year 3515 from creation (246 BCE) they produced 72 corresponding translations, including identical changes in 13 places (where they each felt that a literal translation would constitute a corruption of the Torah's true meaning). This Greek rendition became known as the Septuagint, "of the seventy" (though later versions that carry this name are not believed to be true to the originals). Greek became a significant second language among Jews as a result of this translation. During Talmudic times, Tevet 8 was observed by some as a fast day, expressing the fear of the detrimental effect of the translation.

hmm fear of the detrimental effect of the translation. the kjv,nkjv and others that use the masoretic text which is in hebrew not greek.

 

[Butch5]

actually he was in judea and he didnt speek greek but aramiac and hebrew. from the jews themselves today. the septugaint is only in greek. hebrew died out in jesus' day and wasnt used when he was crucified?

from chabad.org



hmm fear of the detrimental effect of the translation. the kjv,nkjv and others that use the masoretic text which is in hebrew not greek.

A website, could you please supply some actual evidence not someone's opinion? Yes, most modern translations do use the Masoretic text. However, as I said, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint. Just look as some of the quotes from Paul. Go to the Maseretic text and look at what he quotes and you'll see the Masoretic text we have doesn't match what Paul and the others quoted. Here are a few examples.

Below are several New Testament quotes, I have given the corresponding verses in the Old Testament, from both the Masoretic text which is the text used in almost all of the current English Bibles, and the Septuagint or the LXX, which is the Greek text used in the time of Christ. Notice how the Masoretic text does not follow the New Testament quotes as the Septuagint does. This is just a few, there are a lot more.
　
New Testament
Hebrews 1:6 ( KJV ) 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse from Deuteronomy 32:43

Masoretic text
Deuteronomy 32:43 ( KJV ) 43Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Where are the words, "And let all the angels of God worship him"?

Septuagint
Deuteronomy 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.

New Testament
Hebrews 10:5 ( KJV ) 5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse from Psalm 40:6

Masoretic text
Psalms 40:6 ( KJV ) 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Where are the words, " but a body hast thou prepared me:"? This is an important part to leave out since it speaks of the incarnation of Christ.

Septuagint
Psalms 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and sacrifice for sin thou didst not require.

New Testament
1 Peter 4:18 ( KJV ) 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Peter quotes Proverbs 11:31
　
Masoretic text
Proverbs 11:31 ( KJV ) 31Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

Septuagint
Proverbs 11:31 If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

New Testament
Matthew 3:3 ( KJV ) 3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one
crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Here Matthew quotes Isaiah 40:3
　
Masoretic text
Isaiah 40:3 ( KJV ) 3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Septuagint
Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight the paths of our God.

New Testament
James 4:6 ( KJV ) 6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Here James quotes Proverbs 3:34

Masoretic text
Proverbs 3:34 ( KJV ) 34Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
Septuagint
Proverbs 3:34 The Lord resists the proud; but he gives grace to the humble.
　
New Testament
Matthew 15:7-9 ( KJV ) 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in
vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Here Jesus quotes from Isaiah 29:13
　
Masoretic text
Isaiah 29:13 ( KJV ) 13Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Septuagint,
Isaiah 29:13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.
　
New Testament
Matthew 21:16 ( KJV ) 16And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Masoretic text
Psalms 8:2 ( KJV ) 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Septuagint,
Psalms 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; that thou mightest put down the enemy and avenger.


It can be seen from this that it was the Septuagint that they were quoting. Additionally, the reason the Septuagint was rejected by the Jews was because the early Christians were using it to prove that Jesus was the Christ which the Jews rejected. The Septuagint was the Bible of the early church.

 

[rrowell]

New Testament
Hebrews 1:6 ( KJV ) 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse from Deuteronomy 32:43

Masoretic text
Deuteronomy 32:43 ( KJV ) 43Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Where are the words, "And let all the angels of God worship him"?

Septuagint
Deuteronomy 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.

This is a good question, and I can only agree with this commentator on the subject:


This is a very important verse; and to it, as it stands in the Septuagint, St. Paul has referred once before; see Romans 15:10. This very verse, as it stands now in the Septuagint, thus referred to by an inspired writer, shows the great importance of this ancient version; and proves the necessity of its being studied and well understood by every minister of Christ. In Romans 3 there is a large quotation—from Psalm 14:, where there are six whole verses in the apostle's quotation which are not found in the present Hebrew text, but are preserved in the Septuagint! How strange it is that this venerable and important version, so often quoted by our Lord and all his apostles, should be so generally neglected, and so little known! That the common people should be ignorant of it, is not to be wondered at, as it has never been put in an English dress; but that the ministers of the Gospel should be unacquainted with it may be spoken to their shame.
A Commentary and Critical Notes.

 

[jasoncran]

A website, could you please supply some actual evidence not someone's opinion? Yes, most modern translations do use the Masoretic text. However, as I said, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint. Just look as some of the quotes from Paul. Go to the Maseretic text and look at what he quotes and you'll see the Masoretic text we have doesn't match what Paul and the others quoted. Here are a few examples.

Below are several New Testament quotes, I have given the corresponding verses in the Old Testament, from both the Masoretic text which is the text used in almost all of the current English Bibles, and the Septuagint or the LXX, which is the Greek text used in the time of Christ. Notice how the Masoretic text does not follow the New Testament quotes as the Septuagint does. This is just a few, there are a lot more.
　
New Testament
Hebrews 1:6 ( KJV ) 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse from Deuteronomy 32:43

Masoretic text
Deuteronomy 32:43 ( KJV ) 43Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Where are the words, "And let all the angels of God worship him"?

Septuagint
Deuteronomy 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.

New Testament
Hebrews 10:5 ( KJV ) 5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse from Psalm 40:6

Masoretic text
Psalms 40:6 ( KJV ) 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Where are the words, " but a body hast thou prepared me:"? This is an important part to leave out since it speaks of the incarnation of Christ.

Septuagint
Psalms 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and sacrifice for sin thou didst not require.

New Testament
1 Peter 4:18 ( KJV ) 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Peter quotes Proverbs 11:31
　
Masoretic text
Proverbs 11:31 ( KJV ) 31Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

Septuagint
Proverbs 11:31 If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

New Testament
Matthew 3:3 ( KJV ) 3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one
crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Here Matthew quotes Isaiah 40:3
　
Masoretic text
Isaiah 40:3 ( KJV ) 3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Septuagint
Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight the paths of our God.

New Testament
James 4:6 ( KJV ) 6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Here James quotes Proverbs 3:34

Masoretic text
Proverbs 3:34 ( KJV ) 34Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
Septuagint
Proverbs 3:34 The Lord resists the proud; but he gives grace to the humble.
　
New Testament
Matthew 15:7-9 ( KJV ) 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in
vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Here Jesus quotes from Isaiah 29:13
　
Masoretic text
Isaiah 29:13 ( KJV ) 13Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Septuagint,
Isaiah 29:13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.
　
New Testament
Matthew 21:16 ( KJV ) 16And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Masoretic text
Psalms 8:2 ( KJV ) 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Septuagint,
Psalms 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; that thou mightest put down the enemy and avenger.


It can be seen from this that it was the Septuagint that they were quoting. Additionally, the reason the Septuagint was rejected by the Jews was because the early Christians were using it to prove that Jesus was the Christ which the Jews rejected. The Septuagint was the Bible of the early church.

jesus spoke greek? why then if the jews loved greek so much they were wasnt at hatred that paul had to quash? that hatred being tween HELLINSTIC JEWS THAT DIDNT SPEAK HEBREW BUT HAD TO USE THE GREEK TRANSLATION IN ORDER TO EVEN KNOW THE TORAH? really so they didnt use aramiac?



that said. i can easily show that if you buy the chialism as you tell me then the LAW is once again in effect!

zecheriah 14

16. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

17. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.​

18. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

19. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

so gentiles are saved by the law?

lets see what the feast of tabernacles is? and i will use a messianic jew to teach us.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Sukkot/sukkot.html

so gentiles are put under the torah? i never was told that by my dad or any christian only hebrews and the gentiles joined to them were under the law. this is a command from the law.

and if you say that to the jews they would take that the old way. that site does.hmm but i may do that service with the local temple here of messianics. interesting.

 

[jasoncran]

the kjv? that uses the masoretic text.

not the septugaint!

The Holy Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments, King James Version also known as KJV. In 1604 James VI, King of Scotland from his youth, became King James I of England, the first ruler of Brittain and Ireland. Because of the growing animosity of James toward the Puritans, a leading Puritan spokesman, Dr. John Reynolds, proposed that a new English Bible be issued in honor of the new King. King James saw an opportunity to bring about a unity with the church service in Presbyterian Scotland and Episcopal England. King James appointed 54 learned scholars in the making of this new translation from the original Greek and Hebrew into English. For the Old Testament they used the ben Asher text, and for the New Testament they used the Greek text of Erasmus and a Greek and Latin text of the 6th Century found by Theodore Beza. They used Chapters (developed by Archbishop Stephen Langton in 1551) and Verses (the verse divisions of Robert Estienne). It was completed and published in 1611 and became known as the "Authorized Version" because the making of it was authorized by King James. It became the "Official Bible of England" and the only Bible of the English church. There have been many revisions of the King James Bible ie. 1615, 1629, 1638, and 1762. Some of them include marginal notes containing the chronology of Biblical events laid out by Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656), which dates Adam and Eve at 4004 B.C. The 1762 revision is what we now presently know as the King James Version.

http://www.bible-history.com/kjv/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/benAsher.html

ben asher is of the masorites! its masoretic that you said isnt!

 

[jasoncran]

my tanach is masoretic and i have taken the kjv next to it and most of it is identical!

 

[jasoncran]

21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh

this is from is 66, and well theres the levites. if that is literal then the law is come back! the levites are the lords and its says that clearly he is their inheritance.
deut 10

9Wherefore Levi hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren; the LORD is his inheritance, according as the LORD thy God promised him

 

[Zinc]

this is from is 66, and well theres the levites. if that is literal then the law is come back! the levites are the lords and its says that clearly he is their inheritance.
deut 10

I asked a couple, and they didn't seem to think so.

 

[jasoncran]

I asked a couple, and they didn't seem to think so.

that is becaus they either didnt really read the verse they are using for the millenium or were taught another type of it. but when most teach the third temple and that jesus is to reign in the HOLY city then they point you to the verses where it says such.

i have read them and its plain wrong exegesis to say otherwise. the way the temple is to be used is from the same way moses wrote exodus and leviticus.

 

[nmwings]

the way the temple is to be used is from the same way moses wrote exodus and leviticus.

Yes!

 

[jasoncran]

Yes!

okaay. im amil and im of isreal. why on earth are you agreeing with me on the torah? is this a yes on the law returning or the verses are to be taken as a metaphor? to be real and upfront. i dont think any man this side of the return knows for sure what will be. i cant say for sure theres no millenium just that if christ returns he must judge man and will not any sinner to live. it make no sense to me that he comes back and offers a limited redemption and limited grace.

 

[nmwings]

why on earth are you agreeing with me on the torah?

Because the Torah is the foundation upon which the “New†Covenant stands. Without the “Old†there is no basis for the “New.â€

is this a yes on the law returning or the verses are to be taken as a metaphor?

Just because we presently do not have the Altar does not mean the law went away. It has always been there, just as the Lord has promised us.

i dont think any man this side of the return knows for sure what will be.

I agree that no one knows the exact details of the 1,000 year millennium of Rev 20:4-6, but the Bible is FULL of descriptions of that soon-coming Age. Here are only two:

1- Zech 14 describes what will happen immediately after the Tribulation. In Vs 12-15 shows THE Day of Judgment that Hebrews have been “practicing†since Mt. Sinai = it is called “Rosh Hashanah†which means “Day of Judgment†(it is also known as the "Feast of Trumpets") and it falls in the Aug/Sept months of our calendar. 2 weeks later, we “practice†being in the Kingdom when we observe “Sukkot “ (The Feast of Tabernacles.â€) Then, Vs 16-21 tell us not only will we observe the Feast of Tabernacles then, but also “year after year.â€

2- The most detailed account of the Kingdom is given to us in the last 8 chapters of Ezekiel, where he measures a HUGE Jerusalem and a HUGE Temple in which we WILL worship the Lord just as He told us how He wants to be worshiped… at the Altar.

…. if christ returns he must judge man and will not any sinner to live.

John 5:45-47 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

it make no sense to me that he comes back and offers a limited redemption and limited grace.

Grace has always been present.... even in the Torah. But you are tripped up over the subject of sacrifices because you think they are only for sin. But, there are 13 different sacrifices, and only 2 of those deal with sin. And in both cases, the sacrifices only cover UN-intentional sin, meaning a sin of omission or mistake.

The Trespass Offering (Lev 4:27-6:7) is for the common person like you and me.

The Guilt Offering (Lev 4:1-26) is strictly for the anointed priest, a leader, or a sin committed by the whole congregation. (Sometimes translations reverse the names of the Sacrifices.)

THERE IS NO SACRIFICE THAT COVERS INTENTIONAL SIN. The penalty for intentional sin is DEATH. It is THIS penalty of death that the Lamb of God Sacrifice covers. He has passed us from that penalty of death, and brought us into life.

 

[Eventide]

I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and JACOB...

Anyone here willing to share their thoughts on this portion of scripture from Matt 19..?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Now, we know exactly when the Lord Jesus Christ will sit upon His throne of glory because Matt 25 tells us.. and that is when He COMES in His glory..

Should we ignore this... or pretend it's not there.. ?