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Growth Auswitzch and the Jews

DougK

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The Holocaust was a horrible mass murder of at least 6 million European Jews under Hitler's direction. I was reading up on the history of Auswitzch and it hit me pretty strong that after the Nuremberg Trials of 1945-1946, the Allied powers created a homeland for the Jewish survivors. In 1948 the nation of Israel was created. Doesn't it seem like God to use something so awful to recreate the Nation of Israel, which was prophesied to occur before the end times? I didn't know whether to post this in the End Times area or here, or in Christian Talk and Advice... but it's something we can study from the Bible that shows how God uses disaster to bring about His will.
 

Nathan12

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JohnDB

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What we really don't have are the figures from the various "Inquisitions".
There were two of them that I can recall. Spanish and the "other one" Extermination and torture being central themes.

Jews seem to be the central point of genocide.
 

Michael74

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Thus the nation of Israel was reestablished, so that Jews would always have a place to go if they need to flee persecution. Many tried to get out of Europe, but were denied entry into other nations. Now they have somewhere that will accept them, guaranteed.
 

Who Me

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Doesn't it seem like God to use something so awful to recreate the Nation of Israel, which was prophesied to occur before the end times?
There is one very big problem with seeing Israel as a fulfillment of prophesy and that is that in the OT the return was always of the faithfull Jew. Israel is a secular state. Something God hates a state of people who do not worship him.
 

Truthfrees

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There is one very big problem with seeing Israel as a fulfillment of prophesy and that is that in the OT the return was always of the faithfull Jew. Israel is a secular state. Something God hates a state of people who do not worship him.
so that means God hates every country of the world because they are all secular states?

did you know that israel is the only country in the world where sabbath is the national day of rest - so even secular jews rest on sabbath?

what other country has a national day of rest to honor God?
 

Nathan12

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What we really don't have are the figures from the various "Inquisitions".
Some have estimated those deaths to also be in the millions. Whichever way we look at it genocide is demonic and Satanic. And some regard the abortions in America as genocide also.
 

JohnDB

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Some have estimated those deaths to also be in the millions. Whichever way we look at it genocide is demonic and Satanic. And some regard the abortions in America as genocide also.
Abortions are estimated at about 500,000 per year.
 

ezra

 
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There is one very big problem with seeing Israel as a fulfillment of prophesy and that is that in the OT the return was always of the faithfull Jew. Israel is a secular state. Something God hates a state of people who do not worship him.
this is not right God has done said in romans 11 they will be grafted in..remember we was a wild vine grafted in . they been given to spirit of slumber
 

Who Me

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so that means God hates every country of the world because they are all secular states?

did you know that israel is the only country in the world where sabbath is the national day of rest - so even secular jews rest on sabbath?

what other country has a national day of rest to honor God?
In the NT and following God deals with individuals. What a state does is no indication of whether that state pleases God or not.
So Israel keeps the sabeth, do they keep the first commandment, if they don't what value is keeping the forth?
 

Who Me

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this is not right God has done said in romans 11 they will be grafted in..remember we was a wild vine grafted in . they been given to spirit of slumber
Yes, but just who will be grafted in? Those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour or those who reject him as Lord and Saviour?
 

Truthfrees

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In the NT and following God deals with individuals. What a state does is no indication of whether that state pleases God or not.
So Israel keeps the sabeth, do they keep the first commandment, if they don't what value is keeping the forth?
so do you keep the 1st and not the others? - if we are going to point fingers at anyone else we are in projectionistic error because we are told to not do that - Matthew 7:1-3

best to make sure we are walking straight in the Lord - according to Jesus we have a bigger problem/log than the other guy who has a speck - Matthew 7:5
 
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StoveBolts

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In the NT and following God deals with individuals. What a state does is no indication of whether that state pleases God or not.
So Israel keeps the sabeth, do they keep the first commandment, if they don't what value is keeping the forth?
Hi,
Can you help me understand how what you just wrote ties into post 5?

Ya kind of lost me.

Thanks.
 

ezra

 
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Yes, but just who will be grafted in? Those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour or those who reject him as Lord and Saviour?
well yeah its jesus way truth life
 

th1b.taylor

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As I have written, often, on quite a few forums since '95, I hold neither of the major positions, do, please take note of the next word, complete justice to Yashuah ha'Mashiah nor the Gospel of the Scriptures. However, they both, for this Layman Teacher, like my belief, fall within the pale of orthodoxy and cause no major concern about Salvation.





I am a Biblicist and Biblicists believe there is Free Will as well as Predestination. The Bible teaches both as fact and YHWH does not mislead His Children. The issue is the lack of seeking answers from Yashuah and His Father, YHWH through Ruah, the Holy Spirit.





I feel the first fact that needs grasping is there is a division in time between the recording the Jewish Bible, now, incorrectly, known as the Old Testament and the Final Renewing of the covenant between YHWH and Mankind, misnamed as The New Testament.





The Abrahamic Covenant was not dismissed when YHWH renewed, expanded, if you will, but rather it was Renewed and in doing so YHWH expanded, in a specific manor, the requirements through the 613 directions on living a Holy Life before YHWH.





Likewise, many Heretical False Teachers instruct that this "New Covenant" superseded the old one, never even understanding YHWH had a Covenant between Adam and Himself that was renewed with Abraham and later, renewed/expanded with Noah.





If you have issue with seeing this renewing of the Single Covenant between YHWH and man, established and governed by YHWH, please, try not to attempt dragging me into a vain debate without you going to a Bible Source and purchasing the version of your choice with an excellent Chain Reference. I prefer the Thompson Chain Reference but there are other good works to study with.





Using the good chain reference trace any New Testament Verse Reference and after tracing a few of them to their origin a body learns that without the Bible Yashuah taught Christianity from this Renewed (New) Covenant (Testament) has no legs for foundation to stand on. The Holy Ẅörd of our Elohim is of a single major context folding many Life Lessons (Minor Contexts) within itself.





Now, about the major distraction within the Body of Yashuah. Both major positions are taught... which is dominant? Both are taught and stand hand in hand, side by side, each aiding the other.





The Time/Space Continuum we live within was created by YHWH through Yashuah. (Please read through the Bible, all of it, paying particular attention to Genesis, chapter, 1 & 2 and John 1:1-5)





Our Elohim, from outside our Time/Space Continuum created said continuum for us to exist and and serve Him within. In 2Pet 3:8 and other addresses in Scripture we learn Time is meaningless and form the past 29 years of study I have been taught by Ruah that Our Elohim is without limit or confinement. This has led me to understand that YHWH, our Elohim, was and is in the Past, the Present and the Future before He created anything of or for us.





I.e. Before I walked, heart broken by YHWH, off the stage, to go serve Him, somewhere around six thousand years ago, He knew I would exercise my free will and would choose to leave the Popular Life and choose Him to serve over all the fine tasting drinks, beautiful women and all of the benefits, highs and adornments that go with being worshiped and adored. He knew and recorded my name in the Book of Life before I was born or even considered the pleasure available with and from 18 year old ladies just learning the wicked ways of living in and through the houses of Satan.





YHWH has two wills described in the Holy Scriptures. The first is YHWH’s Perfect Will and the second is the most visible in this world, His Permissive Will. Because YHWH is not bound to the Present but moves freely outside of and within the constraints of any understood and not understandable continuum within and without this Space/Time Continuum we exist within at this time.





There is nothing our created minds know or do not know that limit our Elohim.
 

for_his_glory

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2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. There has always been some kind of crusades, (evil ruling powers), that have sought out to annihilate the Jews and Christians.

What happened in Auschwitz and all the other concentration camps back in the 40's was horrific and senseless, but since the time of the Babylonian Empire these attacks on the Jews and even now Christians in many countries today will continue as history keeps repeating itself as even now mystery Babylon that is described in Rev 17 is setting up a global empire as many will see when the son of perdition takes its literal seat in Jerusalem, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13, as many Jews and Christians will be annihilated for their faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus.
 

Who Me

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Hi,
Can you help me understand how what you just wrote ties into post 5?

Ya kind of lost me.

Thanks.
The state of Israel keeps the Sabeth, but they are a secular state. They do not promote the worship of God. Effectively they are effectivly an atheistic state.
 

Who Me

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so do you keep the 1st and not the others? - if we are going to point fingers at anyone else we are in projectionistic error because we are told to not do that - Matthew 7:1-3

best to make sure we are walking straight in the Lord - according to Jesus we have a bigger problem/log than the other guy who has a speck - Matthew 7:5
Thank you for validating the uselessness of only keeping the Sabeth.

Israel is only of value if they point to Jesus.

No one is saved by anyother means than faith in Jesus.
 

Truthfrees

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Thank you for validating the uselessness of only keeping the Sabeth.

Israel is only of value if they point to Jesus.

No one is saved by anyother means than faith in Jesus.
scripture says we are of no value if we say we love God but hate our fellow man - 1 John 4:8 - 1 John 4:20 - 1 Corinthians 13:1 - John 13:34-35 - Zechariah 8:23

the hatred shown to people is what makes them reject what we say - and rightly so -
 

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