Be Perfect - A question

[DarcyLu]

Yes, we're seated with Christ already in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We aren't "being perfected" as some claim...Notice He has perfected for ever those who are sanctified. When we're washed in the blood of the Lamb....we're washed for ever.

When you use the word perfected, do you mean flawless or complete or both?

If we are not being perfected, what does this verse mean?
Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, we're seated with Christ already in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We aren't "being perfected" as some claim...Notice He has perfected for ever those who are sanctified. When we're washed in the blood of the Lamb....we're washed for ever.

When you use the word perfected, do you mean flawless or complete or both?

If we are not being perfected, what does this verse mean?
Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus.

Paul is saying exactly what we were talking about. "To as many as be perfect" (clothed with the righteousness of Christ), be thus minded as Christ is. Paul doesn't see himself as attained, but he then goes on to say "whereto we have already attained"...we're to walk by that same mind that Christ has. He counts us perfect, so we're to believe that and walk as though we are. We walk by faith not by sight. When we put off this "vile" body, we will then be fashioned like His glorious body and can experience it in fact. I don't know if I explained that as well as I should have, but read this portion again and see what you think.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which
walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Son of Israel]

Yes, we're seated with Christ already in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We aren't "being perfected" as some claim...Notice He has perfected for ever those who are sanctified. When we're washed in the blood of the Lamb....we're washed for ever.

When you use the word perfected, do you mean flawless or complete or both?

If we are not being perfected, what does this verse mean?
Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus.

He could have been referring to his body, as the last verse of that chapter states...
(Php 3:21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

and also he refers to his vile body in another place...
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Because in this verse Paul was pretty sure of his future...
(2Ti 4:8) Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So for there to be harmony in scripture and not make Paul out to be contradictory, especially in light of all the other scriptures he refers to about being perfect, it would be His Will in us by which we are perfect...

(Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(1Co 2:6) Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
(Php 3:15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Col 1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
(2Ti 3:17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(Heb 7:19) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
(Heb 12:23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
(Heb 13:21) Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(Jas 1:4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
(Jas 3:2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

May we all be so Blessed!
Son of Israel

 

[glorydaz]

My perfection is only from containing Jesus Christ in me, who is the only Perfect sinless one! I'm dead, but I live, though not I but Christ in me (Col 1:27)

 

[DarcyLu]

My perfection is only from containing Jesus Christ in me, who is the only Perfect sinless one! I'm dead, but I live, though not I but Christ in me (Col 1:27)

thanks for your answers and in light of them all, do you think it possible to stop sinning here on earth.

 

[Son of Israel]

My perfection is only from containing Jesus Christ in me, who is the only Perfect sinless one! I'm dead, but I live, though not I but Christ in me (Col 1:27)

thanks for your answers and in light of them all, do you think it possible to stop sinning here on earth.

Well Darcylu my dear dear Darcy I most certainly hope you don't sin!
To be faithful to our Husband Jesus, as a wife is faithful means being in "fidelity", the literal meaning of the word. If we aren't full of fidelity to our husband, is it because it isn't possible? LOL, NO!
Would we be stepping out on Him? I should hope not.
If we are, It's because of something else, and this would indeed be very very serious. Sinners aren't saved. If someone is sinning, they need to get themselves out of that deep doo doo promptly.

There is only one way to stop sinning.

Repent and be baptized, dying to one's own self.
Receive Jesus Christ into us as a wife does her husband and be filled with His Holy incorruptible Seed of His very righteous sinless Spirit.
Then once this happens, let Him do the rest! TaDaa!

Christ in you, the hope of Glory! (Col 1:27)

(1Jn 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

So if you've been baptized, now invite Him into your flesh and confess He has come in your flesh

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

(Rom 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

(Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(Rom 6:5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

(Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

(Rom 6:8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

(Rom 6:9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

(Rom 6:10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

(Rom 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Rom 6:12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

(Rom 6:13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

(Rom 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

(Rom 6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

(Rom 6:16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(Rom 6:17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

(Rom 6:18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

(Rom 6:19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

(Rom 6:20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

(Rom 6:21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

(Rom 6:22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

(Rom 6:23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes, be sinless!

May we all be so Blessed!

Son of Israel

 

[shad]

Well Darcylu my dear dear Darcy I most certainly hope you don't sin!
To be faithful to our Husband Jesus, as a wife is faithful means being in "fidelity", the literal meaning of the word. If we aren't full of fidelity to our husband, is it because it isn't possible? LOL, NO!
Would we be stepping out on Him? I should hope not.
If we are, It's because of something else, and this would indeed be very very serious. Sinners aren't saved. If someone is sinning, they need to get themselves out of that deep doo doo promptly.

So far you are absolutely correct.

There is only one way to stop sinning.

Repent and be baptized, dying to one's own self.
Receive Jesus Christ into us as a wife does her husband and be filled with His Holy incorruptible Seed of His very righteous sinless Spirit.
Then once this happens, let Him do the rest! TaDaa!

Dear friend, Jesus says to make every effort to get into God's kingdom. We dont just stop sinning because we say we die to our own self. We surely have our own part to be obedient to Jesus. Jesus does not do everyone for us.

Just to be sure, I am not saying Jesus does not help us at all. He does help us greatly. Regardless...

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

darcy, on the americas last days, that is not meant to bring fear but is the truth and it was wonderful what you said about it because that is exactly what they preach on that subject, how when we walk in faith of our Lord we are kept from the trouble that falls all around us. And how there is no need to walk in fears or by sight of what we see happening to this dying world but to keep our eyes on Jesus who can deliver us out of all trouble or preserve us in the midst of it so that it does not come nigh to us! amen.


Now on the idea that we are made perfect by faith(that part is true) in Christ Jesus and that because of this we will never ACTUALLY be perfect i cannot agree on.We all do i believe, agree that Christ is perfect and He is in us. We are told we are being made INTO HIS IMAGE. Christ did not say " believe me and you will be accounted perfect". He told them of a higher righteousness that He was going to hold them to if they follow Him and then told them BE PERFECT.

While it is true that we await the redemption of our bodies which are sinful in nature and which must be changed. We are shown that it is possible to cleanse ourselves of ALL defilement of flesh and spirit. We are shown that we can keep our body under so that we walk as though our flesh is dead meaning it has no reign over us.If we are not submitting to the flesh and are putting it to death and overcoming in this by the Spirit of God in us,then we do not sin and move onto perfection in the truth. It is because we are not our flesh if we do not walk in our flesh. Paul even says that WE are NOT IN THE FLESH amen if we walk after the Spirit. So to be perfect our flesh does not need the adoption as of yet, it only needs to be kept dead.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is what Jesus tells them, after telling them bless those who curse you, do good to those who use you,love your enemies etc...

Jesus offered perfection to the rich young ruler. they spoke about how he had kept all the commandments and Jesus said to him wha tto do if she should be perfect.Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Jesus said that we can be LIKE HIM

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Paul tells us to BE PERFECT.That is an action, not only a faith2Cr 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Paul also tells us we are being made perfect by the Spirit.Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[DarcyLu]

Well Darcylu my dear dear Darcy I most certainly hope you don't sin!
To be faithful to our Husband Jesus, as a wife is faithful means being in "fidelity", the literal meaning of the word. If we aren't full of fidelity to our husband, is it because it isn't possible? LOL, NO!
Would we be stepping out on Him? I should hope not.
If we are, It's because of something else, and this would indeed be very very serious. Sinners aren't saved. If someone is sinning, they need to get themselves out of that deep doo doo promptly.

Son of Israel, are you saying you do not sin or are you just believing you are not a sinner and walking in that faith? There is some sin we do not know about and we may sin w/out knowing it until the Lord reveals it to us, the unwilling sin kind, so no I can not say I do not sin. :verysad

 

[DarcyLu]

Well Darcylu my dear dear Darcy I most certainly hope you don't sin!
To be faithful to our Husband Jesus, as a wife is faithful means being in "fidelity", the literal meaning of the word. If we aren't full of fidelity to our husband, is it because it isn't possible? LOL, NO!
Would we be stepping out on Him? I should hope not.
If we are, It's because of something else, and this would indeed be very very serious. Sinners aren't saved. If someone is sinning, they need to get themselves out of that deep doo doo promptly.

Son of Israel, are you saying you do not sin or are you just believing you are not a sinner and walking in that faith? There is some sin we do not know about and we may sin w/out knowing it until the Lord reveals it to us, the unwilling sin kind, so no I can not say I do not sin. :verysad

(edit to add)
As He reveals sin to us then we can ask Him to help us not to do it again, I mean once we are aware of those unknown sins, they are now known and we don't have to commit them or at least the Lord will help us out of those temptations.

 

[DarcyLu]

darcy, on the americas last days, that is not meant to bring fear but is the truth and it was wonderful what you said about it because that is exactly what they preach on that subject, how when we walk in faith of our Lord we are kept from the trouble that falls all around us. And how there is no need to walk in fears or by sight of what we see happening to this dying world but to keep our eyes on Jesus who can deliver us out of all trouble or preserve us in the midst of it so that it does not come nigh to us! amen.

Ok, I was not sure and do not want to judge it that was just my first thought as I read those words and again, I have not read the whole site so I do not have a good handle on all the teachings, although there were a couple of things that resonated with me, but I would like to continue reading and studying it. Again, thanks.

With the rest of your post, yes, it seems we can all agree we are perfect in Christ and through His blood, yet there does seem to be a difference in opinions, as C wrote we are being perfected, even though this is how God sees us, so we are walking in that faith and our goal would be to manifest Christ here on earth. Even to go as far as to say we can have glorified bodies here, which I am still praying about this and studying, thus this thread. Yet, other POV's sort of stop short of perhaps what God had intended for us, that the line does not want to be crossed.

 

[glorydaz]

There is only one way to stop sinning.

Repent and be baptized, dying to one's own self.
Receive Jesus Christ into us as a wife does her husband and be filled with His Holy incorruptible Seed of His very righteous sinless Spirit.
Then once this happens, let Him do the rest! TaDaa!

Dear friend, Jesus says to make every effort to get into God's kingdom. We dont just stop sinning because we say we die to our own self. We surely have our own part to be obedient to Jesus. Jesus does not do everyone for us.

Just to be sure, I am not saying Jesus does not help us at all. He does help us greatly. Regardless...

Actually, Jesus says to strive (make every effort) to enter the Kingdom. It says nothing of striving to stay in the Kingdom. Once we enter the Kingdom, and abide in Christ, we enter into His rest. We are made perfect by His blood...not our own efforts.

 

[shad]

Actually, Jesus says to strive (make every effort) to enter the Kingdom. It says nothing of striving to stay in the Kingdom. Once we enter the Kingdom, and abide in Christ, we enter into His rest. We are made perfect by His blood...not our own efforts.

Again, you seem to make excuses one after another to justify your own ideas.

take care.

 

[DarcyLu]

Actually, Jesus says to strive (make every effort) to enter the Kingdom. It says nothing of striving to stay in the Kingdom. Once we enter the Kingdom, and abide in Christ, we enter into His rest. We are made perfect by His blood...not our own efforts.

Again, you seem to make excuses one after another to justify your own ideas.

take care.

shad if you cause this thread to be locked I hope you will do the right thing and apologize to me.

 

[shad]

Actually, Jesus says to strive (make every effort) to enter the Kingdom. It says nothing of striving to stay in the Kingdom. Once we enter the Kingdom, and abide in Christ, we enter into His rest. We are made perfect by His blood...not our own efforts.

Again, you seem to make excuses one after another to justify your own ideas.

take care.

shad if you cause this thread to be locked I hope you will do the right thing and apologize to me.

Are you reading glory's comments to me?
Take a hard look what he is saying. better yet, read my post before he responded to mine.
What do you see unbiblical in that post of mine?
.
.

 

[RND]

This is a sincere question from a seeking student of the Word. Listening to famous, well respected Bible scholars, I hear we are sinners and we will never be perfect, yet when I read the Bible God tells me to be perfect as He is and uses the word “saints†to describe us.
What am I missing?

Thanks!
Darcy

Do we love our enemies like God loves His enemies? Do we bless those that curse us? Do we do good to those that hate us? Do we pray for them which insult us, abuse us, and persecute us?

When we can do this we will be perfect like our Heavenly Father.

Mat 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[DarcyLu]

This is a sincere question from a seeking student of the Word. Listening to famous, well respected Bible scholars, I hear we are sinners and we will never be perfect, yet when I read the Bible God tells me to be perfect as He is and uses the word “saints†to describe us.
What am I missing?

Thanks!
Darcy

Do we love our enemies like God loves His enemies? Do we bless those that curse us? Do we do good to those that hate us? Do we pray for them which insult us, abuse us, and persecute us?

When we can do this we will be perfect like our Heavenly Father.

Mat 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Do you think it possible to stop sinning in this lifetime?

 

[Son of Israel]

Well Darcylu my dear dear Darcy I most certainly hope you don't sin!
To be faithful to our Husband Jesus, as a wife is faithful means being in "fidelity", the literal meaning of the word. If we aren't full of fidelity to our husband, is it because it isn't possible? LOL, NO!
Would we be stepping out on Him? I should hope not.
If we are, It's because of something else, and this would indeed be very very serious. Sinners aren't saved. If someone is sinning, they need to get themselves out of that deep doo doo promptly.

So far you are absolutely correct.

There is only one way to stop sinning.

Repent and be baptized, dying to one's own self.
Receive Jesus Christ into us as a wife does her husband and be filled with His Holy incorruptible Seed of His very righteous sinless Spirit.
Then once this happens, let Him do the rest! TaDaa!

Dear friend, Jesus says to make every effort to get into God's kingdom. We dont just stop sinning because we say we die to our own self. We surely have our own part to be obedient to Jesus. Jesus does not do everyone for us.

Just to be sure, I am not saying Jesus does not help us at all. He does help us greatly. Regardless...

Dear dear shad, You haven't stopped sinning?? Oh no!
Why do you suppose that is other than because you haven't died to yourself yet and let Christ live in you?
You think Christ just "helps" you and the rest is up to you? Isn't He the King and accomplishing righteousness in you as much as you let Him?
I let Christ totally live in me as I am totally dead. He is sinless in me and anything I think say or do is what He thinks says and does. So how could I still sin?

The "effort" we make in getting into the Kingdom is the effort in "dying to ourselves" and "letting Christ reign in our flesh".

If you do that, you won't sin.

I sure hope you read these verses dear shad. If someone told you that as a Christian you can accept to continue to sin, you need to run far far away from that devil.


(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[RND]

Do you think it possible to stop sinning in this lifetime?

Man, that is an extremely tough question to answer. In a word, no.

The reason I say that is simple. If man was somehow able to become sinless on earth and each a state of sinless perfect then the need for Jesus Christ becomes unnecessary. What i do believe is that within the sanctification process we can learn to hate sin so much, to be completely disgusted with any amount of sin in our life's (because of what it led to - the death of Christ) that we can be drawn away from the desire to sin. More and more each passing day we can learn to hate sin for what it is and what it has done, not just to us, but what we have done to others by our sin, and learn to continually seek our only Hope - Jesus Christ.

"We have before us the highest, holiest example. In thought, word, and deed Jesus was sinless. Perfection marked all that He did. He points us to the path that He trod, saying, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matthew 16:24.

Christ unites in His person the fullness and perfection of the Godhead and the fullness and perfection of sinless humanity. He met all the temptations by which Adam was assailed, and overcame these temptations because in His humanity He relied upon divine power. This subject demands far more contemplation than it receives. Christians strike too low. They are content with a superficial spiritual experience, and therefore they have only the glimmerings of light, when ... they might discern more clearly the wonderful perfection of Christ's humanity, which rises far above all human greatness, all human power. Christ's life is a revelation of what fallen human beings may become through union and fellowship with the divine nature. . . ."

Men and women frame many excuses for their proneness to sin. Sin is represented as a necessity, an evil that cannot be overcome. But sin is not a necessity. Christ lived in this world from infancy to manhood, and during that time He met and resisted all the temptations by which man is beset. He is a perfect pattern of childhood, of youth, of manhood.

The life of Christ has shown what humanity can do by being partaker of the divine nature. All that Christ received from God we too may have. Then ask and receive. . . . Let your life be knit by hidden links to the life of Jesus. -- Ellen G. White, The Faith I Live By

 

[Son of Israel]

Actually, Jesus says to strive (make every effort) to enter the Kingdom. It says nothing of striving to stay in the Kingdom. Once we enter the Kingdom, and abide in Christ, we enter into His rest. We are made perfect by His blood...not our own efforts.

Again, you seem to make excuses one after another to justify your own ideas.

take care.

Shad why did you respond to Glorydaz with such an accusation?? That was really uncalled for you should apologize I think :verysad