Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

[_ Old Earth _] Behold, the Big..... Bloom?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,038.00
Goal
$1,038.00

Vic C.

Member
What if the Big Bang was really a Big Bloomâ€â€not an enormous explosion, but a rapid and wondrous unfolding like a flower emerging from a densely-packed bud?

April 15, 2004
Dear Concerned Citizen,

In science today, we are under the tyranny of an image, the image of an explosionâ€â€the Big Bang. Ironically, this term was not derived from evidence but from contempt. Sir Fred Hoyle (1915-2001), the celebrated astronomer, was so incensed at the notion that the universe might have a beginning that he began to refer to proponents of this view as believing that the universe started in some kind of a “big bang.â€Â

He was quite surprised when the fires of his sarcasm, rather than withering his opponents, inadvertently coined the now commonly accepted term.

Interestingly enough, the astronomy magazine Sky and Telescope had a contest in 1994 to rename the Big Bang. There were over 10,000 entries, but the judges were unable to find a more golden term to coin. Thus, they declared the “Big Bang†it shall remain.

But what if the Big Bang was really a Big Bloomâ€â€not an enormous explosion, but a rapid and wondrous unfolding like a flower emerging from a densely-packed bud? Then the term “Big Bang†would be disastrously inaccurate. Happily, scientists are gathering more and more evidence that Bloom should replace Bang as the most accurate image of our cosmic origin.

To give ourselves a metaphor, imagine being invited to two events. The first is called “The Big Bang: See a House Blown Up!†You arrive at the address, a house sitting in a field, and settle into a lawn chair a comfortable distance away. The host announces: “Behold! The Big Bang!†and immediately the 3-bedroom brick farmhouse explodes into a cloud of smoke. As the wind slowly dissipates the smoke, you see a large pile of debrisâ€â€glass shards, jagged pieces of wood, broken bricks, and dust.

The second event is called...
(read the rest of the story here... http://www.tothesource.org/4_14_2004/4_ ... rinter.htm )
 
The big bang is not exactly a misnomer, as it does aptly describe rapid expansion, exponential for a short time in fact, and implies the cooling process of the later stages.
However this article is correct in saying that it is an implication of destruction of order that is misplaced. Order is not destroyed, but then order is not created either. Order coalesces as the universe cools and whatever pockets of material exist, because of the primordial heterogenaeity(darn my spelling) of the universe, begin cooling into dense opaque matter for about 300000 years to the point where there was enough distance between atoms or basic particles for light to travel for more than a few nano, pico, or even lower orders of magnitude, seconds.
 
It is still all just theory....An assumption based on limited information or knowledge. Given a choice...and think God I do have one.....I choose the Big Creator idea too......based on unlimited faith and superior knowledge given me by the Holy Ghost.... :)
 
Vic said:
What if the Big Bang was really a Big Bloom—not an enormous explosion, but a rapid and wondrous unfolding like a flower emerging from a densely-packed bud?

)

That is what a big bloom would be. The big bang was originally condensed and exploded. Well maybe not exploded but fast enough to appear as an explosion. Think of it like gunpowder. It doesn't explode but rapidly burns. Unfortunately I don't think you like the side you just landed on.
 
Eve777 said:
It is still all just theory....An assumption based on limited information or knowledge.
That is not the definition of a theory.
 
It is one of the definitinons....at Dictionary.com

I looked it uup... :)
 
I know, I know...but I spelled it right when I looked it up...honest... :tongue
 
It wouldn't make any difference. Evolution is still just a theory..Creation is a fact....pinch yourself...you're here aren't you? Where did the first drop of sperm come from.... ...what is your theory on that? Just debating here,,,not meant to argue...I'm really quite dumb about most things. Humble too. :)





A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
 
Eve777 said:
It wouldn't make any difference. Evolution is still just a theory..Creation is a fact....pinch yourself...you're here aren't you? Where did the first drop of sperm come from.... ...what is your theory on that? Just debating here,,,not meant to argue...I'm really quite dumb about most things. Humble too. :)
Yes it does, the scientific meaning has significance to a scientific theory by definition. A scientific theory is a system that best explains the evidence we have. With all the knowledge we have of the natural world, the geological record of our natural world and the genetic structure of life, the theory of Evolution is the best fit and no other theory or doctrine comes close.
Creationism is not fact, it's dogma/doctrine.

Odd, I came here for an argument.
*No you didn't you came here for an argument.
An argument isn't just contradiction.
*Well, can be.
No it can't. An argument is a set of statements made to establish a proposition. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything that the other person says.
*No it isn't.
Yes it is.
 
Odd, I came here for an argument.
*No you didn't you came here for an argument.
An argument isn't just contradiction.
*Well, can be.
No it can't. An argument is a set of statements made to establish a proposition. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything that the other person says.
*No it isn't.
Yes it is.
:o Better start preserving those brain cells.....while you can. :wink:
 
This article says it so much better than I ever could. Like I said, I believe in God through experience and faith, not logic....the scriptures are spiritually discerned. Not to say logic goes out the window with me, but given both theories....I choose to believe God and not Carl Sagan. :o I think he has more credibility. :)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The emperor's new species

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


"Evolution is a fact. Not a theory, but a fact."
-- Scientist Carl Sagan

Judging by the mail we've been receiving, WorldNetDaily has struck a very raw nerve with its recent reporting on the debate over evolution vs. creation.

But before we read the mail, let's start with the bottom line.

Evolution is about whether the universe, including the earth and all the life that inhabits it, was created by God or whether creation created itself with the passage of time.

Often, the battle between creationists and evolutionists descends into knocking over each side's straw men: Creationists debunk the more patently absurd views of Darwin, even though most of today's evolutionists no longer hold to many of Darwin's premises. And evolutionists assume all of their critics believe the universe was created in six days – that's six 24-hour periods – and often pigeonhole them as mindless redneck religionists with minimal IQ and education.

Reality check: There are vast numbers of Ph.D. scientists in America today who don't believe in the theory – sorry, Carl Sagan, it's a theory – of evolution. Not only do they not buy the original Darwinian view – which, in light of today's scientific knowledge, was impossibly naïve – but they also don't buy today's more, well, evolved version of evolution.

Thus, even though WorldNet magazine's July issue says nary a word about creation having taken place in six days, or the earth being only 6,000 years old – beliefs held by many creationists – but rather reports on the well-documented and profound evidentiary and logical problems with evolution, we have been inundated with insulting mail.

"I thought WND was a news site, not The Evangelical Church of Anti-science," taunted one e-mailer.

"Get off the 'creation theory' crap, it is insulting to anyones [sic] intelligence," noted another.

A graduate biologist e-mailed: "The silly and childish attempts to discredit scientific evidence is disgusting. Believe if you must that we are all descendents of only two full representatives of modern man, but for the sake of common decency don't insult the intelligence of those of us who know full well that this is absolutely impossible. … Much of formal Religion is essentially self destructive in that stands are taken on unproven matters that tend to maintain ignorance."

Providentially, as I sat here writing these words, two more inspired letters arrived in my in-box. Here are highlights of both:

"Really, you have to be kidding. You have blown any credibility you had by running such nonsense as a lead story. No one with an IQ of 50 can possibly believe in the 'creation' fairy tale. I am a conservative politically, but you are going to lose a huge part of your viewers if you run such religious-based nonsense. It is really quite an insult to even read such garbage; you must think your average reader is a complete idiot. Stick with the facts! Evolution is a fact!"

And this:

"Once you have a deity poking his finger in, there is NO logical place to stop. If you think there is, then where is it? At the end of that path, you will have done away with free will and human responsibility."

So, let’s summarize what we have learned up to this point.

Even mention that the history of evolution is rife with fraud, that there remain to this day impossibly illogical premises, that there are a multitude of scientists that do not accept evolution as fact and that, in fact, an increasing number of books are being published by scientists questioning the theory – and you are caricatured as a mindless religious bigot with an IQ scarcely higher than that of … of an ape.

Sorry folks, but this reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes," where only the smartest citizens in the kingdom, or so the authorities said, could actually see the king's esoteric new clothes. Everyone else just saw a naked king – poor, uneducated rabble that they were. But they, too, pretended to see the clothes, just like the elite.

I recently listened to a broadcast debate between biochemist Michael Behe, a champion of "intelligent design," and another scientist defending evolution. After Behe presented his compelling case relating to the irreducible complexity of living systems – that is, the impossibility of their having evolved incrementally, since all the intermediate stages prior to the finished system (say, like wings) wouldn’t function properly and therefore would work against survival through natural selection – the evolutionist scientist rebutted by saying, and this is a near-quote: "Without the education and scientific background to understand the formulas and algorithms that pertain to this subject, it is almost impossible for your listeners to understand how evolution works."

In other words: You people without advanced degrees are too ignorant to understand how evolution works, so you shouldn’t even try, but instead just believe us Ph.D. priests, I mean, scientists, on blind faith.

I don't know about you, but when someone tells me to abandon my common sense and innate (may I say, "God-given"?) understanding in favor of his superior but inscrutable knowledge that flies in the face of reason, I have a little problem with that.

Which brings us back to the main point:

The driving force behind evolution today is the same as it has always been – a way to deny the existence of God. The fact that some Christians believe that God – with whom all things are possible – could have employed evolution to unfold His creation, is beside the point. The spiritual power of evolution, the immense public seduction it has facilitated, and its primary societal role over the last century has been to remove God from the daily life and mind of mankind.

(By the way, if you call yourself a Christian and believe you evolved from a lower life form to a higher form, as evolution preaches – I mean, teaches – you are denying the very heart of your faith. Jesus Christ, whom you claim to follow, taught that man fell from a higher estate into sin, and is therefore in need of salvation. If we have evolved from a lower life form, improving constantly over the eons to our present advanced state, there is no possible need for salvation through the substitutionary death of the Son of God. There's absolutely no wiggle-room here, friends. You're busted.)

So if you want to believe in evolution, please be my guest. But do so with your eyes open, knowing that evolution's most transcendent purpose is, and always has been, to enable you to walk outside and witness the majesties of nature but to no longer have to see God's handiwork, the undeniable evidence of His love. Instead, you get to see the product of eons of "evolution" – of which man is the prideful pinnacle. And lucky day –- you'll be happy to know that evolution also just happens to open up the door to free sexual expression, unfettered by the laws of a nameless and faceless God.

And so, in your evolutionary world, man is the creator of his own destiny. He can genetically engineer himself and his world, transplant body parts, clone animals and humans, fabricate artificial parts of all sorts, imbed subcutaneous microchips, and generally just transform his body and soul into a new creature. In him – Man – all things are made new. Man has become his own god – creating and recreating himself unto immortality.

Only in your dreams, baby.

Not too long ago, I was looking out over the Pacific, drinking in the vast expanse of the ocean, the pounding surf, the seagulls, the salt air – ultimate serenity and ultimate power all in one timeless moment. And I asked myself – just as an intellectual question, mind you – if there was some way that I could experience all of this without believing in God. Or, as our e-mailer said, without "a deity poking his finger in."

So I tried to conceptualize the existence of what I was beholding, yet without a creator. What I got was such a headache, a momentary taste of another dimension – an empty, prideful dimension of hell-on-earth, masquerading as enlightenment and freedom.

This is truly a war of the worlds. The extreme anxiety I felt momentarily as I tasted the "other dimension" that animates those who reject the very idea of God – let me tell you something – they feel even worse when they chance to experience a fleeting moment of realization that God exists, and that they are accountable ultimately to Him.

That's why there's such emotion on this "scientific" subject. It's all about freedom from accountability to God, it's about free will, it's about free sex, it's about pride, it's about being your own god.

Finally, let me say this to those out there who still believe in God – I'm assuming there are still a few of you:

When you walk outside and look at that beautiful oak tree, and your heart tells you a great intelligence designed that tree, believe it. Don't be intimidated by the intellectually prideful, atheistic priestcraft into believing the impossible, illogical and blasphemous.

Believe it even if you're the only bright kid in the emperor's kingdom. Even if everyone else claims to see those fantastic new clothes, and you don't. Don't be afraid to say, "But the emperor has no clothes."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's note: The July edition of WorldNet is titled "EVOLUTION: The complex and profound basis of all life, or a fairy tale for scientists who reject God?"
 
This article says it so much better than I ever could. Like I said, I believe in God through experience and faith, not logic....the scriptures are spiritually discerned. Not to say logic goes out the window with me, but given both theories....I choose to believe God and not Carl Sagan. I think he has more credibility.
Believe anything you like based on faith, just don't say that because you have faith you know such and such a thing to be true and thus all of science must be false.

Sorry folks, but this reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes," where only the smartest citizens in the kingdom, or so the authorities said, could actually see the king's esoteric new clothes. Everyone else just saw a naked king – poor, uneducated rabble that they were. But they, too, pretended to see the clothes, just like the elite.
False analogy or rather ad homenim fallacy coupled with an analogy. This categorizes all evolutionary theory proponents as elitists who cannot see what is plainly before them and he is using it here as his argument against their credibility. This is fallacious because evolution researchers study actual data, they don't just sit in armchairs coming up with hypotheticals all day long.

You people without advanced degrees are too ignorant to understand how evolution works, so you shouldn’t even try, but instead just believe us Ph.D. priests, I mean, scientists, on blind faith.
He does the same thing here. But the evolution proponent is correct in saying that formal education is one of the few ways of gaining a complete understanding of evolutionary theory. In the same way that most people would not be able to understand the formulas I would use to show that two spheres on an incline with any radius and uniform density will always move down the incline at the same rate. It involves calculus and triple integration. The fact that I can follow a triple integration or do a triple integration means that I don't have to take it on faith that two balls will take the same amount of time to roll down the incline, but someone else would have to take it on their willingness to trust my judgement.
I personally am not precisely sure how evolution works, I know what happens, but I haven't got the depth of understanding of how things actually go on that taking coursework in the subject would impart.

I don't know about you, but when someone tells me to abandon my common sense and innate (may I say, "God-given"?) understanding in favor of his superior but inscrutable knowledge that flies in the face of reason, I have a little problem with that.
Then this person would have had a problem with Galileo or Newton because he almost certainly would have simply pointed out to those elitist heliocenterists that with all their learning and knowledge they don't just look up at the sky and see that the sun plainly goes around the Earth each day.
But do so with your eyes open, knowing that evolution's most transcendent purpose is, and always has been, to enable you to walk outside and witness the majesties of nature but to no longer have to see God's handiwork, the undeniable evidence of His love.
Someone who believes in evolution can do either one, natural selection does not require god, but it does mean god cannot exist. You can still believe in the preachings - I mean teachings- of Christ even if you trust science's answers.

What I got was such a headache, a momentary taste of another dimension – an empty, prideful dimension of hell-on-earth, masquerading as enlightenment and freedom.
He is presupposing that with or without god the earth would be somehow different. He's not got a very good imagination if he automatically falls back on his prejudices.

When you walk outside and look at that beautiful oak tree, and your heart tells you a great intelligence designed that tree, believe it. Don't be intimidated by the intellectually prideful, atheistic priestcraft into believing the impossible, illogical and blasphemous.
You can do as you like, but you can't simply claim that to be the truth, it's just what you have faith in. Have all the faith in it you like, just don't attempt to say that it is logically all that can be true.
 
Bottom line....


The driving force behind evolution today is the same as it has always been – a way to deny the existence of God.


And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve (Joshua 24:15)


It appears that you have made your choice and I have made mine. We were given free will so if we choose wrong we have only ourselves to blame. IF you are at peace with your choice, then so be it.
 
The driving force behind evolution today is the same as it has always been – a way to deny the existence of God.
Aaaaand wrong.
Darwin did not make the theory to disprove or discourage belief in god, but Natural selection simply makes belief in an intelligent creative force unnecessary.
 
Evolution is about whether the universe, including the earth and all the life that inhabits it, was created by God or whether creation created itself with the passage of time.

No. You are thinking of the Cartoon Theory of Evolution, so beloved by the professional creationists. If you learn nothing else here, learn that this is not what evoltionary theory is about.

Reality check: There are vast numbers of Ph.D. scientists in America today who don't believe in the theory

Here's a way to check that assertion....

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articl ... 6_2003.asp

Project Steve. It's just a list of scientists named "Steve" or "Stephanie", or some variation thereof, who put their names on a list as subscribing to evolutionary theory.

Here's the current count on the Steve-o-meter

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articl ... 6_2003.asp

Next time you see one of those lists of "scientists who support creationism", count the number of scientists named Steve, Stephen, Steven, Esteban, Etienne, or Stephanie, who have PhDs in biology, geology, paleontology, or a related scientific field.

You'll find very few, if any. "Steves" according to one survey, are about 1% of all scientists.

sorry, Carl Sagan, it's a theory – of evolution.

Perhaps it would be useful to learn what a theory is in science.

Not only do they not buy the original Darwinian view – which, in light of today's scientific knowledge, was impossibly naïve – but they also don't buy today's more, well, evolved version of evolution.

About 2-4% of scientists don't accept evolution, with a much smaller percentage of biologist not doing so. All of them, so far, have had a religious rather than scientific reason for doing so.

So, let’s summarize what we have learned up to this point.

Practically nothing about the real theory of evolution.

Even mention that the history of evolution is rife with fraud,

Really? I can think of one or two hoaxes, and a number of errors, all of which were exposed by evolutionists. I bet we could do an interesting match-up if we took "frauds by evolutionists vs. frauds by creationists" as a thread. Anyone interested?

I recently listened to a broadcast debate between biochemist Michael Behe, a champion of "intelligent design," and another scientist defending evolution.

You do know that Behe is an evolutionist, don't you? He just believes God has to step in and tinker a little from time to time to get it to work.

After Behe presented his compelling case relating to the irreducible complexity of living systems – that is, the impossibility of their having evolved incrementally, since all the intermediate stages prior to the finished system (say, like wings) wouldn’t function properly and therefore would work against survival through natural selection

Let's take a look at that one. How about insect wings? They are anatomically and embryologically identical to the gills seen on primitive arthropods. The basic arthropod layout features "biramous" appendages, with one pair of gills and one pair of legs on each segment. By a process called "tagmosis", the number of appendages has been reduced in many lines over time. Primitive insects called stoneflies retain these gills, and use them to obtain oxygen. They move them up and down to increase the flow over them. Adult stoneflies use the gills to catch the wind and move across the surface of water. The can also flap the gills to increase their speed. Sometimes they actually go airborn.

Obviously, it wouldn't be hard to see how these could evolve very easily into functional wings.

the evolutionist scientist rebutted by saying, and this is a near-quote: "Without the education and scientific background to understand the formulas and algorithms that pertain to this subject, it is almost impossible for your listeners to understand how evolution works."

Well, that's true of any science. Unless you know a good deal about it, you can't understand how it works. That would be as true of chemistry and physics as it would be of biology. Ignorance is the enemy.

In other words: You people without advanced degrees are too ignorant to understand how evolution works, so you shouldn’t even try, but instead just believe us Ph.D. priests, I mean, scientists, on blind faith.[quote:83a13]

The second statement is quite a bit different from the first. It is possible for a person without a degree in biology to understand evolution. But it takes time and effort. I personally know a number of knowledgable laymen. Blue Lightning knows more than most (and it makes him a formidable opponent thereby).

[quote:83a13]I don't know about you, but when someone tells me to abandon my common sense

Common sense works for things commonly encountered. If you try to apply "common sense" to working out DNA hybridization, knowing nothing about it, you will be utterly lost.

The driving force behind evolution today is the same as it has always been – a way to deny the existence of God.

That would be rather peculiar, since the two men who co-discovered the mechanism for evolution were both Christians at the time. In fact, most of us have always been theists.

The fact that some Christians believe that God – with whom all things are possible – could have employed evolution to unfold His creation, is beside the point. The spiritual power of evolution, the immense public seduction it has facilitated, and its primary societal role over the last century has been to remove God from the daily life and mind of mankind.

I'd have to ask for some evidence for that one. it seems entirely at variance with the facts.

(By the way, if you call yourself a Christian and believe you evolved from a lower life form to a higher form, as evolution preaches – I mean, teaches – you are denying the very heart of your faith.

"Higher" and "lower" have no meaning in evolution. And individuals don't evolve. Populations do. Most of the world's Christians admit that evolution is consistent with God's creation.

Jesus Christ, whom you claim to follow, taught that man fell from a higher estate into sin, and is therefore in need of salvation.

This is perfectly consistent with evolution.

If we have evolved from a lower life form, improving constantly over the eons to our present advanced state, there is no possible need for salvation through the substitutionary death of the Son of God.

You've confused our bodies with our souls. It is the soul that needed salvation. We will have new and perfect bodies.

So if you want to believe in evolution, please be my guest.

We have no choice. A Christian should never be afraid to follow the truth, no matter where it leads.

But do so with your eyes open, knowing that evolution's most transcendent purpose is, and always has been, to enable you to walk outside and witness the majesties of nature but to no longer have to see God's handiwork, the undeniable evidence of His love.

You've been badly misled.

Instead, you get to see the product of eons of "evolution" – of which man is the prideful pinnacle.

Evolutionary theory doesn't teach that man is the pinnacle of evolution.

And lucky day –- you'll be happy to know that evolution also just happens to open up the door to free sexual expression, unfettered by the laws of a nameless and faceless God.

Evolutionary theory makes no claims about ethics or morals. Neither does metallurgy. For the same reason. Science can't do morals for you. Fortunately, there are other sources for that.

And so, in your evolutionary world, man is the creator of his own destiny. He can genetically engineer himself and his world, transplant body parts, clone animals and humans, fabricate artificial parts of all sorts, imbed subcutaneous microchips, and generally just transform his body and soul into a new creature. In him – Man – all things are made new. Man has become his own god – creating and recreating himself unto immortality.

That is not part of evolutionary theory, either. Although man has been doing prostheses for millinia, it isn't a challange to God.

Only in your dreams, baby.

As they say, people are usually down on things they aren't up on. Come on in and learn; it isn't what they told you it was.

Not too long ago, I was looking out over the Pacific, drinking in the vast expanse of the ocean, the pounding surf, the seagulls, the salt air – ultimate serenity and ultimate power all in one timeless moment. And I asked myself – just as an intellectual question, mind you – if there was some way that I could experience all of this without believing in God. Or, as our e-mailer said, without "a deity poking his finger in."

I have no idea. But most atheists tell me they can. I find that knowing how we actually got seagulls, in no way interferes with my enjoyment of their aerobatics. In fact, it enhances the experience, understanding a little more of God's creation.

So I tried to conceptualize the existence of what I was beholding, yet without a creator. What I got was such a headache, a momentary taste of another dimension – an empty, prideful dimension of hell-on-earth, masquerading as enlightenment and freedom.

Yeah, the Cartoon Theory will do that to you. Sorry about that. Learn about the real one.

That's why there's such emotion on this "scientific" subject. It's all about freedom from accountability to God, it's about free will, it's about free sex, it's about pride, it's about being your own god.

I often wonder if that isn't what causes some people to react so strongly against it. If you assume that it can refute God (it can't) then some might be inclined to let their desires run wild. I don't think there are many like that, but those folks might be very anxious at the prospect of evolution, if they thought the Cartoon Theory was the real one.

Finally, let me say this to those out there who still believe in God – I'm assuming there are still a few of you:

When you walk outside and look at that beautiful oak tree, and your heart tells you a great intelligence designed that tree, believe it. Don't be intimidated by the intellectually prideful, atheistic priestcraft into believing the impossible, illogical and blasphemous.
[/quote:83a13][/quote:83a13]

I don't like the idea of demoting God to "designer". "Design" is the activity of a limited creature, not the almighty Creator. It is disrespectful to Him at very least.

Avoid that, if you can.
 
Most people will say, "My mind is made up, so don't confuse me with the Truth." To choose the Truth is to want the Truth at all costs, even if it means sacrificing everything I have believed up until now, challenging all my paradigms, questioning all my teachers, examining everything I have ever experienced.




There are those who are hungry for Truth, and then there are those who do something to satisfy their hunger. They know something is not right, something is lacking, and they set out to find answers to their questions. Unfortunately for some, the quest for Truth becomes more important than Truth itself. People who do not pass through this stage, but remain too long here, are those who are "ever learning, but never coming to the full-knowledge (epignosis) of Truth."






His Kingdom, His Reality, transcends the earthly realm in which we live. It is more real than this world. We need vision in order see beyond the earthly and into the heavenly - beyond the natural and into the supernatural. When we see as He sees, we will see how finite this world is, how limited, how temporal.
 
Eve777 said:
Most people will say, "My mind is made up, so don't confuse me with the Truth." To choose the Truth is to want the Truth at all costs, even if it means sacrificing everything I have believed up until now, challenging all my paradigms, questioning all my teachers, examining everything I have ever experienced.
You say that as if simply believing gives you rational justification to call that which you believe correct. Thereby leaving the actual finding of evidence in support to do after you've already got conclusions. This is confused and fallacious logic.
There are those who are hungry for Truth, and then there are those who do something to satisfy their hunger. They know something is not right, something is lacking, and they set out to find answers to their questions. Unfortunately for some, the quest for Truth becomes more important than Truth itself. People who do not pass through this stage, but remain too long here, are those who are "ever learning, but never coming to the full-knowledge (epignosis) of Truth."
What are you trying to say here? Be specific about who these "Truth" seekers and "Truth" givers. Are you saying scientists are fundamentally flawed because they search for answers to their questions without looking at the bible?
His Kingdom, His Reality, transcends the earthly realm in which we live. It is more real than this world. We need vision in order see beyond the earthly and into the heavenly - beyond the natural and into the supernatural. When we see as He sees, we will see how finite this world is, how limited, how temporal.
More irrational claims, you can't make a claim unless you have a reasonable argument and this is by definition irrational.
You don't really respond to Barbarian's argument in this post, why don't you try to do so in the next one?

And finally, thanks for formating your post this way, makes it much easier to break down.
 
We need vision in order see beyond the earthly and into the heavenly



1 Cor. 2: 14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


No man automatically knows Spiritual truth, knowledge and wisdom. The natural man is one that does not seek the Spirit of the Lord for teaching.

No matter how long the natural man studies the Bible on his own, he will not understand the spiritual nature and premise of God's word without direct influence from his (God's) Spirit.

As the above scriptures say, God's truth is not found in how man educates himself, which his (man's) own form of wisdom and logic. It is this that leads societies to war, to suffer and to sin. Spiritual speaking, the educated man, by man's method and ways, is spiritually uneducated.

The ways of man (natural man), knows not the ways of the Lord, and knows not how to spiritual discern things. This is also called spiritual ignorance, and this is the breeding ground for evil influence and twisted wisdom.
 
Back
Top