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Bible Study Bible study (John 1:1-18) Question #2
- Thread starter veryberry
- Start date
Danus
Member
The difference might be found in the use of the word, "word". The Greeks used this term "Word" to describe, not only the spoken word, but also the unspoken word. Unspoken as in word still in the mind, or the reasoning of the mind.
The Jews used "the word", as a way of referring to God. So John uses 'the word" as in a way that is meaningful to both Jews and Gentiles.
if you will apply this understanding to the first and last verses, but particularly the first, John 1:1 and John 1:18, you will see that John is combining both understandings. The word was with God, and The word is God. No one has seen God "the word" but God who is also Jesus Christ. So God, Jesus, and the Word, are one in the same, and that includes the word unspoken; That is, the word in our own hearts and consciousnesses that testifies to God.
A
agua.
Guest
Word refers to the complete inspired words of God and to Jesus ( logos ) I think.
word refers to portions of scripture and the spoken voice of God ( rhema )
word refers to portions of scripture and the spoken voice of God ( rhema )
There is only one Word and that is God, but the words we speak are interpretations of what God has already said spoken through the prophets and Apostles.
The Gospels
Member
scripture is all holy word from God..
jasonc
Member
actually its from the targum. the word there is used instead the Heshem. its the Word in Hebrew, rhema isn't a Hebrew word.
brother Paul
Member
Jasonc is correct...the 1st and 2nd century Jewish Rabbis made a summation of their traditional understanding in the form of a paraphrased Tanakh (Old Testament) in the Aramaic tongue...these were called Targums....The Word there is called "the Memra" who was to them a hypostasis or manifestation of YHVH Himself...when ever the Lord "APPEARS" or SPEAKS" audibly it was fir them, always the Memra (the Word...Logos is the closest word in Greek)...in other words the Word is the visible image of the invisible God...
For example when YHVH is manifest and sitting in Abraham's tent they interpret in the Targum Jonathan on Genesis 19:24 “and the Memra (Word) of YHVH caused to descend upon the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the YHVH in heaven“. So YHVH can be in heaven (we call Him the Father) and yet here manifest on earth (We call Him the Son) without ceasing to be the one and only YHVH and without becoming divided in substance or essential nature.
Here are some other examples...
On Exodus 24:1, The Targum Jonathan understands the scripture to be saying, “the Word of YHVH said to Moses, come up to YHVH“, and just previously in 20:1, he said, “and the Word of the LORD spoke all these glorious words“! Targum Onkelos renders Genesis 15:6 as, “and Abraham trusted in the Word of YHVH, and He counted it to him for righteousness“, while the Jerusalem Targum on Genesis 22:14 says, “and Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word of YHVH. In Genesis 16:3 he has Hagar praying “in the name of the Word of YHVH“, as if God had made Himself seeable, and yet she was not consumed!
Targum Onkelos on Genesis 28 reveals to us that the Memra (the Word) was Jacob’s God. The one with whom He wrestled (in the form of a man) and about whom he said "I have seen God face to face”. In Psalm 62:9 He is David’s God as well. Targum Jonathan says “the Memra of YHVH created man in His likeness, in the likeness of YHVH, YHVH created...”. In the Jerusalem Targum the Word is the “I Am“ of Exodus 3:14! If the Targumim were correct then all the “I Am with you”passages are referring to the Word or Memra, thus Immanu-El.
According to the Targumim, Hosea 1:7 says that God will save the House of Judah by the Word of YHVH and Isaiah 45:17 and 25 also tells us that the true Israel shall be saved by the Word of YHVH, “with an everlasting salvation” (yeshuah), and that “by the Word of YHVH...shall all the offspring of Israel be justified“.
So in effect, John was not borrowing this notion of "the Word" from some Greek philosophia or mystery religion (as many moderns of the Critical School espouse), but was following an acceptable traditionally Jewish understanding of YHVH and was saying to all those unbelieving Jewish people of the diapora "Hey folks, this Jesus IS the Memra...who is both with God AND IS God...the glory of the Father tabernacling (dwelt = skeenoo = to pitch tent) among us...
brother Paul
For example when YHVH is manifest and sitting in Abraham's tent they interpret in the Targum Jonathan on Genesis 19:24 “and the Memra (Word) of YHVH caused to descend upon the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the YHVH in heaven“. So YHVH can be in heaven (we call Him the Father) and yet here manifest on earth (We call Him the Son) without ceasing to be the one and only YHVH and without becoming divided in substance or essential nature.
Here are some other examples...
On Exodus 24:1, The Targum Jonathan understands the scripture to be saying, “the Word of YHVH said to Moses, come up to YHVH“, and just previously in 20:1, he said, “and the Word of the LORD spoke all these glorious words“! Targum Onkelos renders Genesis 15:6 as, “and Abraham trusted in the Word of YHVH, and He counted it to him for righteousness“, while the Jerusalem Targum on Genesis 22:14 says, “and Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word of YHVH. In Genesis 16:3 he has Hagar praying “in the name of the Word of YHVH“, as if God had made Himself seeable, and yet she was not consumed!
Targum Onkelos on Genesis 28 reveals to us that the Memra (the Word) was Jacob’s God. The one with whom He wrestled (in the form of a man) and about whom he said "I have seen God face to face”. In Psalm 62:9 He is David’s God as well. Targum Jonathan says “the Memra of YHVH created man in His likeness, in the likeness of YHVH, YHVH created...”. In the Jerusalem Targum the Word is the “I Am“ of Exodus 3:14! If the Targumim were correct then all the “I Am with you”passages are referring to the Word or Memra, thus Immanu-El.
According to the Targumim, Hosea 1:7 says that God will save the House of Judah by the Word of YHVH and Isaiah 45:17 and 25 also tells us that the true Israel shall be saved by the Word of YHVH, “with an everlasting salvation” (yeshuah), and that “by the Word of YHVH...shall all the offspring of Israel be justified“.
So in effect, John was not borrowing this notion of "the Word" from some Greek philosophia or mystery religion (as many moderns of the Critical School espouse), but was following an acceptable traditionally Jewish understanding of YHVH and was saying to all those unbelieving Jewish people of the diapora "Hey folks, this Jesus IS the Memra...who is both with God AND IS God...the glory of the Father tabernacling (dwelt = skeenoo = to pitch tent) among us...
brother Paul