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Bible Study Book of Revelation -- fulfilled?

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charlesj

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Has the book of Revelation been fulfilled?

This is a legitimate question but it leaves a false impression. It makes it appear as though the book of revelation is more than less a series of predictions. It gives the impression that it is essentially a book that foretells startling events that will unfold in the near future. It would be a mistake to deny that there are events predicted in the book (there are!) but that’s true of the Gospels, Acts and the epistles. The book of revelation is a prophetic call to loyalty to God who alone is worthy of service and praise. And it’s an assurance that victory belongs to the people of God no matter who the enemy is. But there are predictive elements in the book that are wrapped up in the truths just mentioned. Yes, but have the predictive elements been fulfilled? I’m certain the answer’s yes!

Bear in mind that John wrote the book almost two thousand years ago. When he wrote it he said it was "the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." (1:1) What must soon take place. Then in 1:3 he urged his readers to take to heart what is written, "because the time is near." Because the time is near. What do you think those two phrases mean?
He said that two thousand years ago at the opening of the book. My suspicion is that if we had no special interests that we’d take the words at face value.

And he didn’t change his mind as the book closes. In 22:6 the angel says, "The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place." Things that must soon take place and just to be sure that we get the message he says this in 22:10. "Don’t seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near." Because the time is near.

It looks like everyone knows what these words mean until they come to the book of Revelation. Certain teachers keep telling us that the end of the world is near or that Armageddon is to take place soon. They know what it means in their best-selling books and in their tapes, they know what it means everywhere else in the Bible but when it comes to Revelation the phrases becomes all mystery.

If John walked into your presence today, showed you a scroll and said to you, "This is about what must soon take place!" what would you think? If he repeated, "Take this to heart, because the time is near!" what would you think? If he read the whole thing and then said, "These things are true and must soon take place!" would you think they might be hundreds or thousands of years away? And then he hands you the scroll and as he turned to leave you he says, "Don’t seal that revelation up because the time is near!" would you even imagine that it related to centuries from now?

The truth is, the book of revelation deals with things that related to the Roman Empire, the fourth beast of Daniel 7, when it came into conflict with the New Testament church back in the first centuries. Revelation presents Rome as the tool and instrument of Satan in conflict with Christians who are the body of Christ, the army of the white-horsed rider whose name is The Word of God (Revelation 19:11-16). It comes to focus in a particular emperor (Domitian) who stands for all that the Roman Empire stood for.

If we can’t understand plain phrases that are like an envelope that encloses the whole of the book (scholars call phrases that function in that way an inclusio) how do we imagine we’ll understand symbols and images that are left without explicit explanation? Whatever the signs and images mean we are to understand this: Two thousand years ago John said the coming events were to happen soon. So when you hear popular writers assure you that they haven’t even begun yet you’ve just been warned.
I’ve had people tell me that with God time didn’t matter and that with him one day is like a thousand years so "at hand" or "soon to happen" may mean anything. It’s true, of course, that God isn’t bothered by time but his creatures are. If God had been talking to himself this man’s remark would have been relevant. But God was talking to puny little people. He takes our humanity into account as Ezekiel 12:21-28 and Daniel 8:26 shows us.

In Daniel 8:26 God says the vision there "concerns the distant future." There is no distant future for God but he wasn’t talking to himself. When he spoke to limited humans he spoke of "the distant future" so he knows what words like that mean. The ungodly mocked God’s message in Ezekiel chapter 12. At first they said, "These threats are empty. They won’t fulfilled." Then they said, "Well, maybe they’ll be fulfilled but the vision he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies about the distant future." And how did God answer them? He answered them in the words we find in Revelation. "Say to them the days are near...it shall be fulfilled without delay..." They said, "Don’t worry it’s a long way off" and God said, "Worry, the time is near."
Finally on this point. Compare Daniel 8:26 with Revelation 22:10 and let common sense rule. Here’s what the two texts say.
Seal up the vision for, it concerns the distant future.
Don’t deal up the prophecy, because the time is near.
You can see they’re told to do opposite things. But notice why they were told to do opposite things. Daniel is told to seal up the vision because it deals with the distant future. John is told to leave it open because the time is near. God knows what a short time is. Why do people argue against this? Well, for one reason or another they’ve drawn conclusions about what the images in Revelation mean and they settle for that. When you remind them of truths like the above don’t want to receive them because it makes a mess of their whole futuristic scheme. And when you go public, write a lot of books, construct a whole eschatological system based on your interpretation of these images it’s hard to back away.
It isn’t easy to admit we’ve been wrong especially if a lot is riding on it. That isn’t a good thing but I suppose we’ve all had the experience and may yet have to face it.
The safest approach to revelation is to let John tell us what its time frame is rather than us telling John.

Your servant in Messiah, Yahshua
Charlesj
 
Some "thoughts" added to the Book of Revelation --

Have you ever thought of or compared Daniel 7 with John’s writing in Revelation 13 & 17 and noticed the similarity?


Daniel 7:1-8 NIV Daniel 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. 2 Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. 4 "The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. 5 "And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, 'Get up and eat your fill of flesh!' 6 "After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 7 "After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast-- terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. 8 "While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

Here Daniel portrays a vision with four animals, a lion, bear, and leopard. But in Revelation 13:2, it is a leopard, bear and lion. John in the Revelation, is looking “backwards†in time, while with Daniel’s vision he is looking to the future.

Daniel 7:24 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

Daniel 7:24 speaks of ten horns which represents ten kings. Then another king arises (11th king) and “uproots†three of the earlier kings and the 11th king becomes the eighth.
In the Revelation, John doesn’t mention the three kings that are uprooted, he just passes over them and are completely ignored. John takes the vision from Daniel as he finds it – with three missing. But does John speak of eight heads? Yes, Revelaiton 17:11

Revelation 17:9-12 9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. 12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

The seven heads (kings) are seven hills on which the woman sits.(Rome). Five of the kings have already fallen Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius & Nero. One is, (Vespasian) while John is writing this book and one is to come (Domitian).
You’ll note that the persecution of which John speaks is going to come on the saints (11:7; 17:8). You also must note that John says twice (17:8,11) that the beast “is not.†That is, “he isn’t here yet†(speaking of Domitian).
So, here is what you have:

In Daniel ..... In Revelation
1. Augustus.............. 1. Augustus
2. Tiberius .............. 2. Tiberius
3. Caligula .............. 3. Caligula
4. Claudius ............. 4. Claudius
5. Nero.................. 5. Nero
6. Galba ............. (Kings 6,7,8 were “uprooted†and not
7. Otho .............. mentioned in the Book of Rev.)
8. Vitellius
9. Vespanian............ 6. Vespasian
10. Titus .............. 7. Titus
11. Domitian........... 8. Domitian


Who is the fourth beast of Daniel? Everyone agrees it is Rome and so is the beast of Revelation 13. The beast of Revelation 13 is a composite creature, made up of elements which composed Babylon, Medo-persia, and Greece.

Your servant in Messiah,
charlesj
 
are we missing a few important points here ?

1, The beast Was, is not, AND is to come

2, The beast in Rev. also has ten crowns apon its horns!!
 
charlesj said:
Has the book of Revelation been fulfilled?

I think zionism (along with liberalism) is the greatest cancer in the modern church. It has been very destructive to the church as well as to America, as well as a great corruption of the Bible.

Of course, if soon doesn't mean soon, then the Bible is meaningless. How can we trust any of the Bible to mean what it appears to mean? But, zionism requires that soon mean a very long time, so to accommodate the state of Israel.

Bible critics have exploited the biblical corruption of the zionists in their attacks on the Bible. Zionists have handed them a strawman to claim Jesus was wrong.
 
oscar3 said:
no
I have not seen Jesus coming on the white horse.

Hello oscar3:

That just shows you the trouble you get in when you look for a "literal" fulfillment.
John tells you in the very beginning and ending of the revelation that this vision MUST TAKE PLACE SHORTLY. (Rev 1:1 & 22:6)...also, John says the time is at hand (Rev 1:3 & 22:10)...that was over 2000 years ago.

The Greek words for "shortly" with it's prep means "at your elbow." John starts the revelation and tells his audience (1st century audience) "hey, fellows, what I'm fixing to tell you is "at your elbow" in time. He tells the vision and then finishes and says, "again fellows, this is "at your elbow" and the time is at hand.
Take a concordance and look up the word “shortly†and see how it’s used in other scripture.

May the Lord be with you.

your servant in Messiah, Yahshua
charlesj
 
Rev. is being fulfilled as we speak charlesj

Would you agree that the Beast in Dan. was the roman empire ?
 
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