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Bible Study Can man over rule the Providence of God?

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archer

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While reading the book of Psalms. I came across chapter 46. In verses 6 through 11 I started pondering, how can man have freewill and God have providence. Freewill as I understand it means that man makes his own decisions without God or Satans intervening in our thoughts. On the other hand. In many other verses in the Bible. God is shown to direct the thoughts and actions of humans. My question is....... How can there be both.
 
Luke 9:23-24
Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?se ... &bookset=1

The word freewill is found all over God's Word in the OT.

Joshua says:

Joshua 24:14-16
Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

It is all over the place if one chooses to see it. :)
 
The word freewill is found all over God's Word in the OT.

The ONLY time the word "Freewill" is used in the OT it referrs to offerings.

I believe that the will of a person is set free when they are born of God!
 
evanman said:
The word freewill is found all over God's Word in the OT.

The ONLY time the word "Freewill" is used in the OT it referrs to offerings.

I believe that the will of a person is set free when they are born of God!
That does nothing to discredit Joshua's command to choose God or false gods.

That does nothing to discredit the command to take up our own cross and follow Jesus.

Of course none of that is possible unless God calls us first. But we still have to choose to obey the Gospel.
 
Does man have the ability to make a choice without being swayed by God or satan? I keep thinking back to all the scripture that says that man doesnt want to choose God on his own.
 
archer said:
Does man have the ability to make a choice without being swayed by God or satan?
Man only has the ability to follow the nature that is within him. For a lost person, they only follow the sinful nature, even if they have deeds that are "good" by the world's standards.

I keep thinking back to all the scripture that says that man doesnt want to choose God on his own.
Where does it say that in the Scriptures?
 
All so true. So how can man accept Christ when he calls if man only has the ability to follow his sinful nature? Where does the ability to choose Christ come from? Man is in a fallen state as soon as he leaves the womb. So if man has freewill, then how can he choose something that is against his nature.
Man can only choose Christ when Christ calls. Man doesnt go out seeking Christ on his own. He first has to be called by Christ. If man dosent choose Christ when he calls, then man is thwarting God and his Sovereignty. If Christ calls you then Christ has a purpose for you, so if you say no then providence of God cannot be accomplished.
 
Romans 9 is talking about the nation of Israel, not individual people.
 
DIME Ministries said:
Romans 9 is talking about the nation of Israel, not individual people.


6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children

That is talking about people not a nation.
least as i take it when i read it.
 
DrDiotte said:
DIME Ministries said:
Romans 9 is talking about the nation of Israel, not individual people.
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children

That is talking about people not a nation.
least as i take it when i read it.
Here is what you quoted:
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children
Do you see the bolded words? They are Israel, Abraham, and descendants. This is the nation of Israel. Here are more verses about this, even before the verses you quoted and the conclusion of Romans 9:

4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.†33As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.â€Â
Note again that the Israelites are in question here. And note especially that it deals with the rejection of Israel as a nation due to unbelief.

This is also continued in chapter 11:

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.†20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

The entire context of the passages in question demand it is talking about the nation of Israel, not individuals.
 
No.

But you'll soon find Peligians will say, 'our freewill is part of that providence!'

Which is silly. :-D
 
Jason said:
No.

But you'll soon find Peligians will say, 'our freewill is part of that providence!'

Which is silly. :-D
Who or what is a Peliginas? Also, I am not sure I understand your point, Jason.
 
archer said:
While reading the book of Psalms. I came across chapter 46. In verses 6 through 11 I started pondering, how can man have freewill and God have providence. Freewill as I understand it means that man makes his own decisions without God or Satans intervening in our thoughts. On the other hand. In many other verses in the Bible. God is shown to direct the thoughts and actions of humans. My question is....... How can there be both.

You are simply confusing what God CAN do with what God DOES do.

God can make anything happen but he doesn't. He has providence in that he is overseeing everything that happens and can intervene with his power whenever he chooses to do so. It does not mean he will do what he can do.
 
Adams son said:
archer said:
While reading the book of Psalms. I came across chapter 46. In verses 6 through 11 I started pondering, how can man have freewill and God have providence. Freewill as I understand it means that man makes his own decisions without God or Satans intervening in our thoughts. On the other hand. In many other verses in the Bible. God is shown to direct the thoughts and actions of humans. My question is....... How can there be both.

You are simply confusing what God CAN do with what God DOES do.

God can make anything happen but he doesn't. He has providence in that he is overseeing everything that happens and can intervene with his power whenever he chooses to do so. It does not mean he will do what he can do.

Are you sure he is the one who is confussed?
 
Jason said:
Adams son said:
archer said:
While reading the book of Psalms. I came across chapter 46. In verses 6 through 11 I started pondering, how can man have freewill and God have providence. Freewill as I understand it means that man makes his own decisions without God or Satans intervening in our thoughts. On the other hand. In many other verses in the Bible. God is shown to direct the thoughts and actions of humans. My question is....... How can there be both.

You are simply confusing what God CAN do with what God DOES do.

God can make anything happen but he doesn't. He has providence in that he is overseeing everything that happens and can intervene with his power whenever he chooses to do so. It does not mean he will do what he can do.

Are you sure he is the one who is confussed?

WHO?
 
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