I believe that is no comparison, to what I stated.Ok, let's look at Matthew 11. John is in prison and has his deciples ask Jesus, " art thou he that should come?"
John is quoting Zechariah 9 and covertly asking about verse 11.
When Jesus replies, he answers by quoting Isaiah 29 and does not mention Zachariah's prophesy on prisoners.
Now, this really falls in the wheelhouse of
FHG as she knows more about end times than I, but essentially Jesus is saying those in prison will be released on his second coming and yes, John will die in prison.
In this same way, we can view Luke 4.
The moon isn't made of cheese?My goodness, you're all over the place here. It seems to me that if you think all these verses are related to the preexistence idea, then I would say emphatically that you're taking them out of context, and presuming a pretext into them. So yes, I still reject that idea. You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you want, but it doesn't make it true.
Sure, which post of mine would you like me to post the references for? I will.dianegcook and Edward
Please don't misunderstand my last post. The issue is with myself, not either of you. I don't want to stifle a discussion or blacklist topics of discussions.
Later today ill try to respectfully give my view and my sources and like for_his_glory cited her sources, I'd appreciate both of you citing your sources.
Sure, which post of mine would you like me to post the references for? I will.
Be advised that my source is scripture. I will post the citations for them. I didn't post them before because I was talking with ForHisGlory, who is well acquainted with scripture and my thought was that surely she knows these scriptures already.
There are teachings and videos from respected teachers and pastors which helped to point me in the right direction on this topic, but having did my homework on it I feel as if I can go by scripture. If you like, I can chase down some different videos that I have seen and post them also for your perusal...??
Hi kurseez and welcome to CF2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
This clearly states that the devil is Jesus and he will deceive you into being like him and tricks you into doing wrong.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
This means he pretends to be perfect Jesus to get us to do what he wants. There is a narrow path to take, he does not want you to take it. Doing the following things will help Our Father and put you on the narrow path.
1 Corinthians 7:32
“But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord.
The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.
We should always fast, that means that we should not consume anything. We should never get married, because we are all related.
1 Corinthians 11:29-30
For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
Psalm 92:3With the ten-stringed lute and with the harp, With resounding music upon the lyre.
Our Father loves the 10 string harp, we should play it instead of participating in the evil activities of the world. We should not be watching TV or playing video games, when we stay home where it is safest.
Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39). Only God can incarnate them for the purpose of His ministry here on earth, Genesis 18:2-8.FHG, if I'm wrong then I am not above learning and acknowledging my error. But I do have to be able to comprehend the truth and wherein was my mistake. We all must be careful to not, uh, force the text to say what we want it to. The answers and the truth is within scripture and most times it takes some effort and study to put it together. That said, I'm having very much difficulty wrapping my mind around how you said that in scripture that fallen angels are the same as demons and unclean spirits. We know that God is not the author of confusion, so why would He call fallen angels demons or spirits and so forth when it makes it sound like other types of beings altogether?
I've spent a little time in my strongs lately looking up different scriptures and words used in them which relate to our discussion. I would think that if demons and fallen angels are the same thing, then the words would go back to the same word in the original language which defines fallen angels. This transliteration does occur at times in scripture depending on which translation and passage is being read. So it is possible, and yet...it does not seem to be the case here. So I'm going to need some help from you to understand your conclusion.
In 2 Peter 2:4 it talks about the fallen angels...
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;.../
"Angels" (G32) aggelos --Angels, messengers from God.
Luke 10:20 says,
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.../
Now the word "spirits" here has it's usage laid out in the Strongs.
III. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
A. a life giving spirit
B. a human soul that has left the body
C. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ.../(Strongs)
It is not showing the usage of demons or evil spirits along with Angels, but separately. So what do I do with this? It is but one example and I will surely list more if you wish. So would you mind expounding upon your position to help me to understand this and wherein is my mistake, if any? Angels in Greek is (G32), Spirits in Greek is (G4151), not the same. Demons goes to even an entirely different entry also, so I can not easily just lump all fallen angels and demons together. I believe it is easy to see that they are different.
With all due respect, this is not true, Sister. Angels can materialize and always appear as men. They have taken people by the hand (Genesis 19:10), they ate meals with men (Genesis 18:8), they even engaged in physical combat on earth (2 Kings 19:35, Isaiah 37:36) and in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 we can see that not only is Satan himself able to transform into an Angel of light, but so are his minions...(v 15)Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39). Only God can incarnate them for the purpose of His ministry here on earth, Genesis 18:2-8.
I agree that angels come down to earth in human form, but yet it is only God who can transform them as humans that we can see as they are only spirits without form. This is why it is said in Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.With all due respect, this is not true, Sister. Angels can materialize and always appear as men. They have taken people by the hand (Genesis 19:10), they ate meals with men (Genesis 18:8), they even engaged in physical combat on earth (2 Kings 19:35, Isaiah 37:36) and in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 we can see that not only is Satan himself able to transform into an Angel of light, but so are his minions...(v 15)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.../
I notice that in your post you did not address my post and expound on how you came to these conclusions that you have, but merely stated your beliefs. I believe that in discussions such as ours that in order to establish the truth and figure out who is wrong, that we both should be able to suspend our preconceived notions and enter the discussion with an open mind. I expressed my willingness to do this, myself, but will you also, for the sake of discussion?
Angels in scripture are very active and able to do many things. Whereas demons seem to not be able to do very much at all beyond being able to possess someone. They are constantly seeking embodiment and were regularly cast out by Jesus. So, again, if you can explain (scripturally) why you believe what you do, I am very interested in reading it.
Edward, with all do respect as my brother in the Lord Isaiah chapter 26 has nothing to do with angels as this chapter is all about Israel praising God for delivering them from the pain of their enemies as God slew all of them as in the various kings and their armies that have formerly come against Israel. They sing a new song unto God as He has increased their nation.Now, I do agree that Angels can not die it would seem from scripture. But that leaves us in a quandry here...
In Isaiah 26:13-14 it says:
13 O Lord our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.../
Who is dead here? Who shall not live? Who was destroyed?
If Angels can not die, then...who did?
I believe that this is speaking of the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. They will not rise and were killed in the flood. They can not be redeemed and rise to eternal life because they are hybrids...that makes sense to me. If I am wrong, then what does this passage mean? Please correct me.
I don't understand that. If Satan can transform into an Angel of light but he is evil, and Angels can not materialize as men without God's power and directive, then it kind of sounds like satan can do more than the good Angels can? That kind of would not make sense. Unless I'm missing something or misunderstood?As far as Satan transforming himself into an angel of light we have to understand the meaning of the word light in 2 Corinthians 11:14. Darkness and light are metaphors for good and evil as we can see throughout scripture like in James 1:17 as light is a metaphor for truth and God's unchanging nature. John 1:5 the light being Christ in His nature of goodness shines in darkness as darkness represents evil and evil is the nature of Satan.
It's not that Satan can physically transform himself, but also has an unholy trinity of Dragon, Beast and False Prophet, Rev 12; 13; 16:13, as he works through others to deceive the world into thinking the beast and false prophets are the light of Christ, Matthew 24:11, 23, 24.I don't understand that. If Satan can transform into an Angel of light but he is evil, and Angels can not materialize as men without God's power and directive, then it kind of sounds like satan can do more than the good Angels can? That kind of would not make sense. Unless I'm missing something or misunderstood?
In examining the context of the statement made by the apostle Paul, the point he is making concerns people who teach false ideas. Satan's messengers appear like good teachers teaching God's word, but their false ideas lead people astray. It's not the 90% they teach as truth, but the 10% false is what makes them "Satan's messengers." If everything they said was false, no one would listen; but the falsehood is intertwined among Bible verses quoted and commonly known truth.I don't understand that. If Satan can transform into an Angel of light but he is evil, and Angels can not materialize as men without God's power and directive, then it kind of sounds like satan can do more than the good Angels can? That kind of would not make sense. Unless I'm missing something or misunderstood?
I disagree about Spirits can not die.Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39). Only God can incarnate them for the purpose of His ministry here on earth, Genesis 18:2-8.
The Bible classifies some angels as “elect” (1 Timothy 5:21) or “holy” (Matthew 25:31; Mark 8:38). All angels were created to be holy, enjoying the presence of God (Matthew 18:10) and the beauty of
heaven (Mark 13:32). But, the angel we call Satan who has been given many names rebelled against God as he became prideful and wanted everything that was God's as he wanted to be God , Ezekiel
28:13-17. Within his rebellion he also took a third of the angels who followed after Him and cast them down to the earth, Rev 12:3, 4. These angels oppose God under the leadership of Satan as being
his messengers here on earth as they too are created spirits of God that is why God could never destroy any of them because a spirit can not die. (Matthew 25:41; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1: 6; Ephesians
6:12). We often call these types of angels demons/devils/evil spirits/unclean spirits for which an everlasting fire is prepared by God for Satan and these angels, Matthew 25:41.
The term demon comes from the Greek "daimon". Demons are also called evil spirits, unclean spirits and devils in scripture as they are disembodied spirits as angels have no form. The use of the terminology of demons, evil spirits, unclean spirits and devils are interchangeable in scripture as they all mean the same thing. They exist in a demonic realm as principalities, Romans 8:38, 39; Ephesians 6:12, and have a hierarchy of rulership controlled by Satan as being his messengers, Matthew 12:22-30; Mark 3:22; Luke 4:35. They have no physical form, but can viciously posses a body, Matthew 8:16-31; 12:43-45. Demons are numerous in numbering and can also speak like the Legion (2000) of unclean spirits in Mark 5:9.
Strong's Concordance: Demon
Part of speech: noun masculine
Definition: a demon
Usage: evil spirit, demon
I believe angels were also created in God's image with His attributes, but no one can truly say what they look like other than being immortal beings which can never die, but yet will also be judged in God's final judgement. It's like humans in a sense that their spirit can never die as when a human dies their breath/spirit/soul returns back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7, Ecc 12:7.I disagree about Spirits can not die.
Those verses you had given says nothing of them not being able to die.
The Spirit is the intellect of the soul.
Matt.10:28 states that He can destroy body and soul.
What is your take on 1Cor.11:10?