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Chopper's thread 0n Rapture

Chopper

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Wow, thank you guys/gals I have have honored Jason in my heart, and because of that I am going to study the scope of preterism. I will go to the thread on that, then research on my own. I think I have an obligation, since it's an end time theory, and I really think Reba is, sssshhh, a rebel, thinking outside the box, to try and see her point of view.

Soooooooo Reba or Eugene do you want me to carry this to the preterist forum? Or stay right here.
 

jasoncran

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Wow, thank you guys/gals I have have honored Jason in my heart, and because of that I am going to study the scope of preterism. I will go to the thread on that, then research on my own. I think I have an obligation, since it's an end time theory, and I really think Reba is, sssshhh, a rebel, thinking outside the box, to try and see her point of view.

Soooooooo Reba or Eugene do you want me to carry this to the preterist forum? Or stay right here.
I have found that most people that have studied judiasm and the jewish thoughts on the torah/tanach in depths will believe in some form of preterism.
 
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Preteristic beliefs are the result of gathering more knowledge than is commonly offered by religious authorities to the laity. As jasoncran said, when one studies A.N.E. culture and literature as well as the differing beliefs of the Jewish sects of the 1st century, a preteristic picture begins to quickly develop. Pre and Post trib tend to arise from revisionist history and modern tradition.
 

jasoncran

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Preteristic beliefs are the result of gathering more knowledge than is commonly offered by religious authorities to the laity. As jasoncran said, when one studies A.N.E. culture and literature as well as the differing beliefs of the Jewish sects of the 1st century, a preteristic picture begins to quickly develop. Pre and Post trib tend to arise from revisionist history and modern tradition.
the older commentary taught preterism. revisionism indeed. especially how isreal came to be. most think it was all jews everywhere who wanted isreal to be when it was the jews who lived in palenstine and wanted to be left alone and simply defended the land they had bought from the arabs. these are the jews who were never forced to leave the lavant. many think that after ad 70 there were no jews in the lavant. that isn't true.
 

Chopper

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I have found that most people that have studied judiasm and the jewish thoughts on the torah/tanach in depths will believe in some form of preterism.
My first question on preterism is; how much of what I see in the future, is applied to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, and what is going to happen in future events.
 

reba

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I am on a borrowed computer i should be home late... If Eugene does not move this i will out of respect to the rules.....Maybe i can try it here..

I got it here but wish the post were also at the old thread... something for me to learn....
 
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Chopper

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Preteristic beliefs are the result of gathering more knowledge than is commonly offered by religious authorities to the laity. As jasoncran said, when one studies A.N.E. culture and literature as well as the differing beliefs of the Jewish sects of the 1st century, a preteristic picture begins to quickly develop. Pre and Post trib tend to arise from revisionist history and modern tradition.
Hmm, What is A.N.E.?
 

jasoncran

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that is the grey area. most don't see any future restoration of isreal. others as I do see that matthew 24 is fulfilled for the most part.
 

JLB

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that is the grey area. most don't see any future restoration of isreal. others as I do see that matthew 24 is fulfilled for the most part.
If all the Jews in Jerusalem saw Jesus Coming in the clouds, why do they still reject Him as Messiah?

Why is there still a religion called Judaism

Why are they trying to build another Temple?.

JLB
 

Sinthesis

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If all the Jews in Jerusalem saw Jesus Coming in the clouds, why do they still reject Him as Messiah?

Why is there still a religion called Judaism

Why are they trying to build another Temple?.

JLB
They didn't recognize Jesus as their Messiah when they were face to face, so it's no real surprise that the Jews didn't recognize that their judgement came from Him.

Judaism glorifies God.

Because some Jews are still convinced that is how they can please God, rather than applying the lesson of the Babylonian captivity vis-à-vis the diaspora. Why are some Christians trying to help them build another temple?
 

Sinthesis

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My first question on preterism is; how much of what I see in the future, is applied to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, and what is going to happen in future events.
The destruction of the temple is just part of a pattern that demonstrates the weak and beggarly nature of a works based theology, as compared and contrasted to the corresponding destruction and resurrection of Christ's-body-as-temple which brought a faith centered theology into the world. Ultimately the Stone-the-builders-rejected grows to fill the whole world. We get to donate our redeemed lives as part of the ongoing process.
 

JLB

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They didn't recognize Jesus as their Messiah when they were face to face, so it's no real surprise that the Jews didn't recognize that their judgement came from Him.?
Brother,

That is not even close to what the word of God teaches.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man inheaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn , and they shall see the Son of man comingin the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

When He comes, every eye will see Him.

JLB
 

jasoncran

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They didn't recognize Jesus as their Messiah when they were face to face, so it's no real surprise that the Jews didn't recognize that their judgement came from Him.

Judaism glorifies God.

Because some Jews are still convinced that is how they can please God, rather than applying the lesson of the Babylonian captivity vis-à-vis the diaspora. Why are some Christians trying to help them build another temple?
because those Christians believe that if its built the messiah will return. I call that almost wanting jews to die.if He returned today. many of my family would be judged worthy of hell. while I do want him to return. im not going to try to rush it!
 

Chopper

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I have gone back to the origional thread on preterist. I have read a lot of the posts, not all of them. For all the different poster's I have not yet seen a group of you all believing the same thing. To me it is very confusing and I can't seem to draw any conclusions from all those posts.

If I were to place myself in any preterist doctrine, it would be partial preterist. I need to know, what happened in 70A.D. and what is going to happen at the end of the church age, or beginning of the tribulation. What confuses me is no one is stating that. Partial preterism is, in my opinion, a believable doctrine if both parts are explained. Full preterism is not believable, and it seems to me that all the posts are trying to prove F.P. I'm probably wrong but that's the conclusion I've come up with. Sooooooooo will someone please explain the two parts. What verses go with the destruction of Jerusalem, and what verses are future.
 

jasoncran

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stormcrow was and leigh were fp. hitch , reba, and rev33 and synthesis are partial. its against the tos to post full preterism stuff.
 

Chopper

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I have gone back to the origional thread on preterist. I have read a lot of the posts, not all of them. For all the different poster's I have not yet seen a group of you all believing the same thing. To me it is very confusing and I can't seem to draw any conclusions from all those posts.

If I were to place myself in any preterist doctrine, it would be partial preterist. I need to know, what happened in 70A.D. and what is going to happen at the end of the church age, or beginning of the tribulation. What confuses me is no one is stating that. Partial preterism is, in my opinion, a believable doctrine if both parts are explained. Full preterism is not believable, and it seems to me that all the posts are trying to prove F.P. I'm probably wrong but that's the conclusion I've come up with. Sooooooooo will someone please explain the two parts. What verses go with the destruction of Jerusalem, and what verses are future.
Thank you. Can anyone answer my question?
 

JLB

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I have gone back to the origional thread on preterist. I have read a lot of the posts, not all of them. For all the different poster's I have not yet seen a group of you all believing the same thing. To me it is very confusing and I can't seem to draw any conclusions from all those posts.

If I were to place myself in any preterist doctrine, it would be partial preterist. I need to know, what happened in 70A.D. and what is going to happen at the end of the church age, or beginning of the tribulation. What confuses me is no one is stating that. Partial preterism is, in my opinion, a believable doctrine if both parts are explained. Full preterism is not believable, and it seems to me that all the posts are trying to prove F.P. I'm probably wrong but that's the conclusion I've come up with. Sooooooooo will someone please explain the two parts. What verses go with the destruction of Jerusalem, and what verses are future.

The answer is found in a practical study of Daniel.

Jesus said 15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. 25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

  • This prophecy maintains a Chronological manner in it's fulfillment.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

  • Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; - 33 AD
  • And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

It is Important to understand, as of verse 26 the time period of the prophecy has come to the year 70 AD, and is still running.

The prince who is to come is a future prince, of the year 70 AD. The people OF the prince destroyed the city and sanctuary.

The prince who is to come, will confirm a covenant , as well as put an end to sacrifice and offering. This requires another temple.


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

"he", refers to the last person mentioned, which is the prince who is to come.

The events of verse 27 take place some time after the year 70 AD.

To understand what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24, it is crucial to understand these things in Daniel.


JLB
 

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