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Churches, what’s wrong?

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:tongueunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:biggrinontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Churches, what’s wrong?

People who believe and were sent by God are drifting like ships with no wind or waypoint to head for.

Yet churches are ignoring them:
While they show off their musicians.
While they show off their public speakers.
While they show off their buildings.
While they show off the size of their congregation.
And the people sitting in the chairs in the congregation are mostly there because they feel obligated, not because they truly believe and desire God.

And all the while the true servant of God drifts in a windless sea while the church's doors to ministry are firmly closed to him, the one who is truly lead by God, but remains stonewalled by the elite church leadership. What are we going to do? When will God step in and correct the wrong?
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Last edited by a moderator:
The answer is in the hands of leadership. Until the leadership changes it's attitude the church will not change.

I know it sounds almost cliche now, but until the church stops running like a business it will continue to depend on the glamorous to thrive. When the church operates like a business, the church has to depend on quantity, not quality for success. The key to quantity is glamor and outward appeal to overcome the competition of so many places to worship presented to people these days.
 
Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery —so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Is what you speak of a sign that the fullness of the Gentiles been fulfilled?
 
Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery —so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Is what you speak of a sign that the fullness of the Gentiles been fulfilled?
Are you suggesting that the sign that the full number of gentiles has come in is the blanket wandering away from, and rejection of the true gospel by the gentiles? That's an interesting thought.
 
Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery —so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Is what you speak of a sign that the fullness of the Gentiles been fulfilled?

No, at least I hadn't meant it in that way. It's an observation I have personally seen played out too many times recently.
 
This 'talent search' mentality of the world has infiltrated the church and has ruined her. Somehow the charisma of talent is understood by those in the church as spirituality. She has indeed lost her anchor and is being blown by every wind of worldly doctrine. That anchor being godly character, not charisma and success.
 
Are you suggesting that the sign that the full number of gentiles has come in is the blanket wandering away from, and rejection of the true gospel by the gentiles? That's an interesting thought.

No, at least I hadn't meant it in that way. It's an observation I have personally seen played out too many times recently.

That's my thoughts anyways. I believe this apostasy and the lack of growth in churches and believers may point to that. I don't know about the rest of the world, but are churches seeing growth, or seeing shrinking numbers as here in North America?
 
A few years ago I heard the underground church has been busting at the seams in China.

My personal belief is it will take an underground, or grass roots kind of movement to rescue the Western Church--not rescue it in quantity, but in quality. But I also believe...that will prolly not happen. Call me a pessimist, but it seems we're seeing the reality of the bread Jesus spoke about in which the leaven has worked it's way through the whole loaf. The way the loaf will be just before the end.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's my thoughts anyways. I believe this apostasy and the lack of growth in churches and believers may point to that. I don't know about the rest of the world, but are churches seeing growth, or seeing shrinking numbers as here in North America?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

One in particular had a ministry need. God clearly sent someone (at LEAST one) to their congregation who was gifted in the right areas (and He confirmed this with signs and miracles), but the secular minded leaders insisted on looking outside what God had already provided so they could find a "rock star" type person to minister. They did. Now their church, which had been growing tremendously before this, is falling apart spiritually, numerically, and financially. And the person God sent to them? He says he nightly prays that if there is no more use for him in this world that God will take him home while he sleeps. Why do so many of those who profess to believe show no signs of any true belief?
 
I heard China was and believers were approaching in the hundreds of millions. Hearsay, I know, but converts were coming in droves to the Lord. What will it take for the church to wake up here? Hard times I suspect. Maybe a good dose of tribulation perhaps?
 
What will it take for the church to wake up here? Hard times I suspect. Maybe a good dose of tribulation perhaps?
Well, I was going to mention crisis as the catalyst for a turning back to genuine Christianity, but I didn't because I think all we'll get out of that is more 'quantity', not 'quality'. 9-11 is what I base that opinion on. As soon as the air was let out of the crisis people went back to their old ways.
 
Maybe China is the place to be? Maybe other Asian countries as well? Is that God's calling to us today? Has he "shaken off the dust from his sandals" on America?
 
Coincidentally, I received this email today. A little off topic perhaps but it does highlight some of the problems:

'"CAN'T FIND a CHURCH!"

-Andrew Strom

If it's one thing I hear over and over from people, it is this. They
literally look everywhere they can think of in their town, and cannot
find a fellowship that seems in any way "right". Many will heap
blame on these people. But I am not one of them. What are you
supposed to do when you go right around a town and cannot find
good, sound, anointed teaching anywhere? What if you are left
with a choice of hyper-grace, prosperity, dead formalism or
anti-Charismatic "King James only"? Which one do you settle for?

For years I have been hearing this cry and it is only getting worse.
There simply seems to be a "famine" of the true word of the Lord
in many places. This is the overwhelming reason behind a lot of
the "Out-of-church" Christian phenomenon - no doubt about it.
We would love to hear your own experiences and comments on
this topic, my friends. Below is a message that somebody sent
me just this week on this very subject-

Tracy wrote:
"Hi Mr. Strom, I live in America.. Our churches (most of them are
in apostasy). My family & I always get hurt, persecuted because
of the calling on our lives and our stand for the truth... Each time
it hurts worse and worse, and we feel like we don't even fit in
anywhere. It has caused our kids, who are now grown, to not
even want to go to church. Where we live now, we are currently
looking for a place to worship and almost all churches here only
have church on Sunday Morning.. No service Sunday Night or
Wednesday night.. We need fellowship with true believers.

We have been in churches that seem like CIRCUSES (apostle
movement) where the Pastor insisted he was my "father" and
I was his "spiritual daughter" - weird.. We left and he threatened
we would not be blessed or doors would not open because we
left "his covering"! We've been at churches where the pastor was
blind and followed the flesh instead of the Spirit.. Putting demon
possessed people over prayer teams, etc.. Etc.. We have had
enough.. Been hurt because of our stand for righteousness...
To the point we are fearful of even connecting with a church ??

I know these are the last days but I am so disheartened. Will you
please pray for us? Offer any advise of wisdom you may have.
America and our churches are backslidden and it is seriously
so sad.. Where are his true people?"

ANDREW AGAIN: As I said, it would be easy to blame the
people and call them "uncommitted" or 'church hoppers', etc.
But the simple lack of GOD in so many fellowships today seems
to be what is driving a lot of true believers away. How can they
be blamed for leaving? Does anyone have the answer? How many
others have similar tales to tell?

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic at the website below-

http://www.revivalschool.com/

God bless you all! - Andrew Strom ( prophetic@revivalschool.com )

--
YES! - You have permission to post these emails to friends
or other groups, boards, etc - unless there is a Copyright
notice above which says differently.'


If it's too off topic, we can split it off and make it it's own.
</pre>
 
Well, I was going to mention crisis as the catalyst for a turning back to genuine Christianity, but I didn't because I think all we'll get out of that is more 'quantity', not 'quality'. 9-11 is what I base that opinion on. As soon as the air was let out of the crisis people went back to their old ways.
Maybe it will take something ongoing, rather than a one time event...

Or maybe it's just time to focus efforts somewhere else?
 
Now their church, which had been growing tremendously before this, is falling apart spiritually, numerically, and financially. And the person God sent to them? He says he nightly prays that if there is no more use for him in this world that God will take him home while he sleeps.
What's his name, Elijah?


Why do so many of those who profess to believe show no signs of any true belief?
Bad teaching on what 'grace' means. Like I say, the church has lost the anchor of true spirituality--character--and is trying to stay anchored by the shifting tastes of glamor, charisma, and the latest trend in entertainment.
 
Coincidentally, I received this email today. A little off topic perhaps but it does highlight some of the problems:

'"CAN'T FIND a CHURCH!"

-Andrew Strom

If it's one thing I hear over and over from people, it is this. They
literally look everywhere they can think of in their town, and cannot
find a fellowship that seems in any way "right". Many will heap
blame on these people. But I am not one of them. What are you
supposed to do when you go right around a town and cannot find
good, sound, anointed teaching anywhere? What if you are left
with a choice of hyper-grace, prosperity, dead formalism or
anti-Charismatic "King James only"? Which one do you settle for?

For years I have been hearing this cry and it is only getting worse.
There simply seems to be a "famine" of the true word of the Lord
in many places. This is the overwhelming reason behind a lot of
the "Out-of-church" Christian phenomenon - no doubt about it.
We would love to hear your own experiences and comments on
this topic, my friends. Below is a message that somebody sent
me just this week on this very subject-

Tracy wrote:
"Hi Mr. Strom, I live in America.. Our churches (most of them are
in apostasy). My family & I always get hurt, persecuted because
of the calling on our lives and our stand for the truth... Each time
it hurts worse and worse, and we feel like we don't even fit in
anywhere. It has caused our kids, who are now grown, to not
even want to go to church. Where we live now, we are currently
looking for a place to worship and almost all churches here only
have church on Sunday Morning.. No service Sunday Night or
Wednesday night.. We need fellowship with true believers.

We have been in churches that seem like CIRCUSES (apostle
movement) where the Pastor insisted he was my "father" and
I was his "spiritual daughter" - weird.. We left and he threatened
we would not be blessed or doors would not open because we
left "his covering"! We've been at churches where the pastor was
blind and followed the flesh instead of the Spirit.. Putting demon
possessed people over prayer teams, etc.. Etc.. We have had
enough.. Been hurt because of our stand for righteousness...
To the point we are fearful of even connecting with a church ??

I know these are the last days but I am so disheartened. Will you
please pray for us? Offer any advise of wisdom you may have.
America and our churches are backslidden and it is seriously
so sad.. Where are his true people?"

ANDREW AGAIN: As I said, it would be easy to blame the
people and call them "uncommitted" or 'church hoppers', etc.
But the simple lack of GOD in so many fellowships today seems
to be what is driving a lot of true believers away. How can they
be blamed for leaving? Does anyone have the answer? How many
others have similar tales to tell?

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic at the website below-

http://www.revivalschool.com/

God bless you all! - Andrew Strom ( prophetic@revivalschool.com )

--
YES! - You have permission to post these emails to friends
or other groups, boards, etc - unless there is a Copyright
notice above which says differently.'


If it's too off topic, we can split it off and make it it's own.
</pre>

It sure seems to fit what I've been seeing.
 
Coincidentally, I received this email today. A little off topic perhaps but it does highlight some of the problems:

'"CAN'T FIND a CHURCH!"

-Andrew Strom

If it's one thing I hear over and over from people, it is this. They
literally look everywhere they can think of in their town, and cannot
find a fellowship that seems in any way "right". Many will heap
blame on these people. But I am not one of them. What are you
supposed to do when you go right around a town and cannot find
good, sound, anointed teaching anywhere? What if you are left
with a choice of hyper-grace, prosperity, dead formalism or
anti-Charismatic "King James only"? Which one do you settle for?

For years I have been hearing this cry and it is only getting worse.
There simply seems to be a "famine" of the true word of the Lord
in many places. This is the overwhelming reason behind a lot of
the "Out-of-church" Christian phenomenon - no doubt about it.
We would love to hear your own experiences and comments on
this topic, my friends. Below is a message that somebody sent
me just this week on this very subject-

Tracy wrote:
"Hi Mr. Strom, I live in America.. Our churches (most of them are
in apostasy). My family & I always get hurt, persecuted because
of the calling on our lives and our stand for the truth... Each time
it hurts worse and worse, and we feel like we don't even fit in
anywhere. It has caused our kids, who are now grown, to not
even want to go to church. Where we live now, we are currently
looking for a place to worship and almost all churches here only
have church on Sunday Morning.. No service Sunday Night or
Wednesday night.. We need fellowship with true believers.

We have been in churches that seem like CIRCUSES (apostle
movement) where the Pastor insisted he was my "father" and
I was his "spiritual daughter" - weird.. We left and he threatened
we would not be blessed or doors would not open because we
left "his covering"! We've been at churches where the pastor was
blind and followed the flesh instead of the Spirit.. Putting demon
possessed people over prayer teams, etc.. Etc.. We have had
enough.. Been hurt because of our stand for righteousness...
To the point we are fearful of even connecting with a church ??

I know these are the last days but I am so disheartened. Will you
please pray for us? Offer any advise of wisdom you may have.
America and our churches are backslidden and it is seriously
so sad.. Where are his true people?"

ANDREW AGAIN: As I said, it would be easy to blame the
people and call them "uncommitted" or 'church hoppers', etc.
But the simple lack of GOD in so many fellowships today seems
to be what is driving a lot of true believers away. How can they
be blamed for leaving? Does anyone have the answer? How many
others have similar tales to tell?

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic at the website below-

http://www.revivalschool.com/

God bless you all! - Andrew Strom ( prophetic@revivalschool.com )

--
YES! - You have permission to post these emails to friends
or other groups, boards, etc - unless there is a Copyright
notice above which says differently.'


If it's too off topic, we can split it off and make it it's own.
Since I'm going to be looking for another church hopefully soon, I hope I don't end up in that situation.=/
 
I know many people don't want to hear this, but there's nothing to fix because most of what is seen out there as the so-called church is not the church. It's part of the world. The true church is a very small body of believers and they are found within such organizations, or again, maybe in a true church of God somewhere. But even with such a church, it only lasts a few generations because they bring their kids and family to church. Not that there's anything wrong with this, as oftentimes Yahweh calls the people of the same family, but not necessarily, and then it gets infiltrated with those outside again just because they are raised to come that way.

To "fix" this problem, I've been staying away from formal worship and gathering with a small group of like-minded people to study. That's probably a half dozen out of a congregation of over, say 300, who can care less about the bible studies and rather do potlucks or whatever. Does this give one a clue about the size of the church of God?

Just let things go and don't try to fix it. For what cause? That's how God wants it to call a few right now in this age. It's not a "go out and get everyone inside now" campaign, as evidenced by the fact that doing that will bring about the very problem we are discussing here now.
 
I know many people don't want to hear this, but there's nothing to fix because most of what is seen out there as the so-called church is not the church. It's part of the world. The true church is a very small body of believers and they are found within such organizations, or again, maybe in a true church of God somewhere. But even with such a church, it only lasts a few generations because they bring their kids and family to church. Not that there's anything wrong with this, as oftentimes Yahweh calls the people of the same family, but not necessarily, and then it gets infiltrated with those outside again just because they are raised to come that way.

To "fix" this problem, I've been staying away from formal worship and gathering with a small group of like-minded people to study. That's probably a half dozen out of a congregation of over, say 300, who can care less about the bible studies and rather do potlucks or whatever. Does this give one a clue about the size of the church of God?

Just let things go and don't try to fix it. For what cause? That's how God wants it to call a few right now in this age. It's not a "go out and get everyone inside now" campaign, as evidenced by the fact that doing that will bring about the very problem we are discussing here now.

Sometimes those we don't think are of the Church are, and possibly the ones we're sure of aren't; God knows. Just because we don't observe the finished work of the Lord in them doesn't mean God is finished with them.

In Revelation 7:9 John is shown a numberless number of saints that reach heaven that come out of the tribulation: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."

This group doesn't even include the elders, the four living ones, or the 144,000. Sometimes, and I'm just saying that in forsaking the assembling together with our less knowledgeable brethren, the gifts we have been given by God for the edification of other believers may not be going forth as He wants them to; do we have a calling? Regardless of our personal growth and spiritual walk with the Lord all believers are one with Christ and a part of the Church.

My thoughts.
 
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