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GodsGrace

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We have a nice, new member that has posted the following in the forum for New Members.
I have his permission to move it to here because I found it so interesting.

I'd have a few questions for both Seasoned by Grace, our new member, and all the participants:

1. Is it important to know church history?

2. How, or what, can make us feel secure when standing before God (even in this life)

3. In light of Matthew 7:21, who are the few that will find the narrow gate?
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "


Here is the post by Seasoned by Grace:

**********************************************************************************

what I share will reflect 42 years of reading, studying, and researching scripture, and especially the last 5 years of my 17 years of my retirement, have been incredibly intense, putting together a huge library of study tools, and creating a library of over 550, commentaries spending many thousands of hours studying the history of Christianity, the history of the bible, world history going back to creation, and studying koine Greek - the language Jesus spoke and the common language of the day over most of the world, and studying every biblical topic that the Holy Spirit brought to me to study.
I am not a scholar or know it all. I just wanted Gods truth for myself, and then for those God brought to me.
Romans 14:22 says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God,
happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."

Many years ago when I first became a follower of Christ, things I heard in the church and things I saw done or sometimes left out, made me question whether I had really become a believer, and was I really in the right church. What was the right church?

I needed to know. My life depended on it.
So for the next 42 years, I have sought the answers, and God through the leading of the Holy Spirit, and much prayer for the truth, has blessed me to come to the conclusions I needed to feel secure in my standing before Christ each day, and when I stand before Him after my physical life ends.
1st Peter 4:18, Peter said, "If it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the Godless man and the sinner?" A dire warning to believers, along with many other warnings.

My faith has been adjusted several times over the last 42 years, as God has commanded it should, and my faith in many ways doesn't resemble much of what the Christian culture as a whole calls Christianity today, because of all the major discrepancies in all the mainline faiths beliefs and teachings, and even the smaller individual churches who's doctrines are not able to be saved by either.

There is only one way to salvation, not the many we have today, and it only comes from Gods word, and God says in Matthew 7:14, and Luke 13:23-23 that "FEW" who call themselves believers will enter His kingdom of heaver. Read Matthew 7:21 and the verses before and after - SCARY.

God bless you all.
My name is OLIGOS

*********************************************************************
highlighting is mine.
 
Well" wondering", I see you did it. Your quite the go getter.

I like the way you set it up with the 3 questions you started your post with.
I will add one question and answer it too. "IS IT IMPORTANT TO KNOW "BIBLE" history?
All 4 questions could be topics of their own.

I'll have to think and pray on those questions before I post an answer.

They'll probably come one at a time, as I think the answers will possibly be lengthy.

God bless you for your "Tenacious Faith" :biggrin2.
My name is OLIGOS
 
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Well" wondering", I see you did it. Your quite the go getter.

I like the way you set it up with the 3 questions you started your post with.

I'll have to think and pray on those questions before I post an answer.

They'll probably come one at a time, as I think the answers will possibly be lengthy.

God bless you for your "Tenacious Faith" :biggrin2.
My name is OLIGOS
I'm happy you're happy.
The questions are rather important, I think.
What we should all consider.

They could be answered simply, or with deep thought.
That's how the bible is: It could be simple and it could be deep.
It satisfies everyone.

I'll be answering too, of course,
but now it's 1 A.M.
Tomorrow....

P.S. next time put the @ sign before my name so I'll see your post...
Do this whenever you don't use the "reply" button at the bottom right of the screen.
'night.
 
Okay I didn't really want to do this because I'm not into theology whatsoever but I'm more scared of wondering right now than the outcome of this so,..



1. No I'm not really a history buff at all.

2. That Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.


3. Now this is what is going to get my head bitten off like an angry pack of wolves so here it goes it was nice knowing you all,.. *Takes deep breath*




I don't believe the Bible to be one hundred percent accurate. Why? Cause it was written so long ago and you know how word gets around these days. It can wind up like one big game of telephone.




Number two I do believe to be true,.. however I don't believe you need to be a Christian to enter Heaven if that's what you're asking me because of these verses right here. Matthew 13:49-50.






So, now I ask you does somebody who helps the poor, tells the truth, loves their neighbor, and honors their parents sound like somebody who is wicked to you just because they don't believe in God?




Me personally, I believe it to be nothing more than a scare tactic and I don't think that God wants His people to come to Him like that. I believe that because Jesus died on the cross for everyone that everyone can come to know Him, but if you're a good person that He has all of your sins covered for you.





There you happy now? wondering? Sorry Papa Zoom, I know I promised that I wouldn't post in this forum again but this chick was going to kill me if I didn't. Lol! :rofl2
 
One thing I forgot to mention is that I believe that those in Christ will automatically get a ticket to Heaven. :)
 
Matthew 7:14
Interesting that you chose this passage.

The main gate is broad. The city leaders are there along with the tax collectors. Lots of guards and soldiers too for protection. There are crowds cheering as you come in...vendors selling drinks and food. It's a pleasant and fun trip down that road. It also takes you a long time to get to your destination.


But the residents know all the back ways into the city. The hidden paths used to sneak in at night. No one welcoming you. You just get there. The paths are narrow and not defined. They are hidden.

But seeing how "God is Love" and "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness"...these are key components of the faith.
Loving God, loving your fellow obnoxious, almost heathen, cousin of the faith because your faith in God requires action...I think that is what will gain us access because Jesus paid for my sins on the cross. No other reason other than God's mercy and Grace.
 
Ron,I,am thinking of Ron ,he attends my church .we discuss things like this





I would make a Harry Potter joke right now but I'm afraid that I would get in trouble for it lol! Anyways the only person that I thought of when you said that was Weasley. XD!
 
wondering

#1 Is it important to know church history?

I don't know about anyone else, but church history was vital to my quest to know GODS TRUTH about everything the church should be according to scripture, and also according to non-Christian and Christian historians, about how things in the Christian church had changed by persecutions by church leaders in the early days of the faith. Say the first 200-300 years, and a lot changed then, including people being martered BY THE CHURCH for things that were eventually abolished that had to do with salvation, but is totally taught against now.

History brings to life the truth and reality of what Christianity was like and how many suffered and died for doing things in their faith that isn't even practiced today and is spoken against by mostly all churches today.

That's why when learning all this while I was going to church, and seeing the result of all those restrictions and teachings from the past happening in my own church, and remembering the same in all the other churches I attended before, and the falseness of what they taught and practiced, as I sat there in church my last Sunday a little over a year ago, after attending church for 41 years, I felt so edgy and totally uncomfortable and convicted by the Holy Spirit, I had to get up and leave during service, and never returned again.
And since then God has validated those actions over and over, and though many would site Hebrews 10:25, that applies to a person with a hardened heart - a bad heart condition before God.
If you read and study 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18, you read where God says that we all should SEPARATE ourselves from any kind of ungodly false teachings and actions, and to me in my learning, that's what most churches are guilty of and why there are so many different doctrines and beliefs, because Gods ONE doctrine of faith has been replaced by mans doctrinal beliefs, in both cases, so they can SIN against God and feel good about it.

This is just HISTORY, speaking of HISTORY, repeating itself again. Christians today replacing the meaning of Gods words, like the Jewish leaders did thousands of years ago so that they could validate their sinning by changing the meaning of the Mosaic law to the people, changing it even more as time passed - watch the movie "Fiddler on the roof. :biggrin2 " Just kidding.

But if you study it out, you'll find a huge parallel between how the leaders in the Jewish faith and the leaders in the Christian faith have almost identically changed the meaning and purpose of what God and Jesus had given in word to their respective faiths.
In fact Jesus actually commented on it to the Jews in Matthew 5:17, "..where 6 times Jesus said, "you have heard it said, but I say" - a condemnation of their Hipocricy.

So, is it important to know church history? Maybe not to some, but to me it's vital to knowing the truth.

You'd be "Shocked" at the changes made in the last 2000 years that changes your ability to find true salvation.
I hope you decide to study it out and make it your own as I was called to. PRAISE GOD :amen

What I have learned I could just barely skim the surface of trying to share here. It has to be studied for yourself so that the Holy Spirit can cause what you learn to be your own, something you live for and would die for, because the truth from God the way I got it became so COMPELLING, it was irrestable.
I invested thousands of hours and thousands of dollars, and over 40 years of my life because that's a small thing compared to eternity which is forever and forever.

I counted the cost, because there's a price to pay for every Christian to find the truth, especially with todays teachings, and I paid it at Gods calling, and wouldn't sell what I've learned for any amount of money because what I've learned is priceless.
No matter what anyone says, Christianity isn't free. Jesus said it would cost us everything, because in truth, it's all HIS.

Finding the truth is like digging for a bountiful booty of buried treasure and when found everyone rejoices and has a wonderful time thinking of how they will spend their share. For me and others who've paid the price, I'm hoping for that "Crown of righteousness that Paul said he was to receive.

All this learning and struggling to find the truth has brought me a peace and joy and comfort in this faith I find beyond compare

May you all be blessed to find that peace we can all have before our savior.
My name is OLIGOS
 
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Matthew 7:14
Interesting that you chose this passage.

The main gate is broad. The city leaders are there along with the tax collectors. Lots of guards and soldiers too for protection. There are crowds cheering as you come in...vendors selling drinks and food. It's a pleasant and fun trip down that road. It also takes you a long time to get to your destination.


But the residents know all the back ways into the city. The hidden paths used to sneak in at night. No one welcoming you. You just get there. The paths are narrow and not defined. They are hidden.

But seeing how "God is Love" and "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness"...these are key components of the faith.
Loving God, loving your fellow obnoxious, almost heathen, cousin of the faith because your faith in God requires action...I think that is what will gain us access because Jesus paid for my sins on the cross. No other reason other than God's mercy and Grace.


Remember that the analogy here is Jesus is "THE NARROW GATE or DOOR, and when you research these words, this is speaking of the HARDSHIP of getting through a place so difficult to get through that it's "crushing" like the back ally ways and tight places between buildings you spoke of, or being on the paths between cities where there are caverns to pass through with crevases that are so tight that you have to know about it ahead of time and what it takes to get threw or you can't get to your destination - Sound familiar?? HEAVEN??
 
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wondering

#1 Is it important to know church history?

I don't know about anyone else, but church history was vital to my quest to know GODS TRUTH about everything the church should be according to scripture, and also according to non-Christian and Christian historians, about how things in the Christian church had changed by persecutions by church leaders in the early days of the faith. Say the first 200-300 years, and a lot changed then, including people being martered BY THE CHURCH for things that were eventually abolished that had to do with salvation, but is totally taught against now.

History brings to life the truth and reality of what Christianity was like and how many suffered and died for doing things in their faith that isn't even practiced today and is spoken against by mostly all churches today.

That's why when learning all this while I was going to church, and seeing the result of all those restrictions and teachings from the past happening in my own church, and remembering the same in all the other churches I attended before, and the falseness of what they taught and practiced, as I sat there in church my last Sunday a little over a year ago, after attending church for 41 years, I felt so edgy and totally uncomfortable and convicted by the Holy Spirit, I had to get up and leave during service, and never returned again.
And since then God has validated those actions over and over, and though many would site Hebrews 10:25, that applies to a person with a hardened heart - a bad heart condition before God.
If you read and study 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18, you read where God says that we all should SEPARATE ourselves from any kind of ungodly false teachings and actions, and to me in my learning, that's what most churches are guilty of and why there are so many different doctrines and beliefs, because Gods ONE doctrine of faith has been replaced by mans doctrinal beliefs, in both cases, so they can SIN against God and feel good about it.

This is just HISTORY, speaking of HISTORY, repeating itself again. Christians today replacing the meaning of Gods words, like the Jewish leaders did thousands of years ago so that they could validate their sinning by changing the meaning of the Mosaic law to the people, changing it even more as time passed - watch the movie "Fiddler on the roof. :biggrin2 " Just kidding.

But if you study it out, you'll find a huge parallel between how the leaders in the Jewish faith and the leaders in the Christian faith have almost identically changed the meaning and purpose of what God and Jesus had given in word to their respective faiths.
In fact Jesus actually commented on it to the Jews in Matthew 5:17, "..where 6 times Jesus said, "you have heard it said, but I say" - a condemnation of their Hipocricy.

So, is it important to know church history? Maybe not to some, but to me it's vital to knowing the truth.

You'd be "Shocked" at the changes made in the last 2000 years that changes your ability to find true salvation.
I hope you decide to study it out and make it your own as I was called to. PRAISE GOD :amen

What I have learned I could just barely skim the surface of trying to share here. It has to be studied for yourself so that the Holy Spirit can cause what you learn to be your own, something you live for and would die for, because the truth from God the way I got it became so COMPELLING, it was irrestable.
I invested thousands of hours and thousands of dollars, and over 40 years of my life because that's a small thing compared to eternity which is forever and forever.

I counted the cost, because there's a price to pay for every Christian to find the truth, especially with todays teachings, and I paid it at Gods calling, and wouldn't sell what I've learned for any amount of money because what I've learned is priceless.
No matter what anyone says, Christianity isn't free. Jesus said it would cost us everything, because in truth, it's all HIS.

Finding the truth is like digging for a bountiful booty of buried treasure and when found everyone rejoices and has a wonderful time thinking of how they will spend their share. For me and others who've paid the price, I'm hoping for that "Crown of righteousness that Paul said he was to receive.

All this learning and struggling to find the truth has brought me a peace and joy and comfort in this faith I find beyond compare

May you all be blessed to find that peace we can all have before our savior.
My name is OLIGOS


It all becomes a part of your heart, and you live from it with great unspeakable joy.
 
Okay I didn't really want to do this because I'm not into theology whatsoever but I'm more scared of wondering right now than the outcome of this so,..



1. No I'm not really a history buff at all.

2. That Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.
Most Christians are not history buffs...it's not really important unless you need to know it for whatever reason.

It helps me a lot because I like to know what the early
Christians believed. They died for what they believed, so I like to know what it was. It doesn't really help much with salvation issues.
We won't be judged by the history we know,,,,but our knowledge of God and our obedience, or as some call it "works"....Same thing. If we obey God,,,we're working for Him.
1 Corinthians 3:8-9
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.



3. Now this is what is going to get my head bitten off like an angry pack of wolves so here it goes it was nice knowing you all,.. *Takes deep breath*

I don't believe the Bible to be one hundred percent accurate. Why? Cause it was written so long ago and you know how word gets around these days. It can wind up like one big game of telephone.
There are saved theologians that do not believe the bible is 100% accurate,,,or that it does have some conflict.

It's not a history book and so the above should not shock anyone.

This is not to say that it is not the inspired word of God...but men wrote it and some mistakes might be in there. For instance, we can't really be sure that there was a census in the time of Jesus' birth.

However, it's important to note that there is no SUBSTANTIAL mistake or conflict in the bible that would cause on to lose trust in the message....the message remains in tact.


Number two I do believe to be true,.. however I don't believe you need to be a Christian to enter Heaven if that's what you're asking me because of these verses right here. Matthew 13:49-50.


Matthew 13:49-50
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "

Jesus said the above....so no mistake here!


This is repeated in
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


So, I have two questions for you:
1. What do these verses mean to you?
2. Can a person go to heaven WITHOUT knowing God?
Or must they know God?


So, now I ask you does somebody who helps the poor, tells the truth, loves their neighbor, and honors their parents sound like somebody who is wicked to you just because they don't believe in God?
Do you mean that they do NOT believe in God....
or do you mean that they are not Christian?


Me personally, I believe it to be nothing more than a scare tactic and I don't think that God wants His people to come to Him like that. I believe that because Jesus died on the cross for everyone that everyone can come to know Him, but if you're a good person that He has all of your sins covered for you.
Are everyone's sins covered even if the don't believe in God?



There you happy now? wondering? Sorry Papa Zoom, I know I promised that I wouldn't post in this forum again but this chick was going to kill me if I didn't. Lol! :rofl2
Well, I for one am very happy.
I think our doctrine does not save us...I believe Jesus does.
If we are honest in our beliefs God will honor us.
I think it's good that you discuss your beliefs.
Romans 9:1
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
 
Matthew 7:14
Interesting that you chose this passage.

The main gate is broad. The city leaders are there along with the tax collectors. Lots of guards and soldiers too for protection. There are crowds cheering as you come in...vendors selling drinks and food. It's a pleasant and fun trip down that road. It also takes you a long time to get to your destination.


But the residents know all the back ways into the city. The hidden paths used to sneak in at night. No one welcoming you. You just get there. The paths are narrow and not defined. They are hidden.

But seeing how "God is Love" and "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness"...these are key components of the faith.
Loving God, loving your fellow obnoxious, almost heathen, cousin of the faith because your faith in God requires action...I think that is what will gain us access because Jesus paid for my sins on the cross. No other reason other than God's mercy and Grace.
John,,,
I do believe that Loving God and Loving our neighbor pretty much covers everything...as Jesus Himself believed by teaching these two commandments.

And yes, the wide road seems like fun...but leads to destruction.
Jesus said the LAWLESS would not enter....
Matthew 7:23
Only those that do the will of the Father...
Matthew 7:21
 
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