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Bible Study did Enoch die ?

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Bob10

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"By faith Abel..." - Heb. 11:4

"By faith Enoch..." - Heb. 11:5

"By faith Noah..." - Heb. 11:7

"By faith Abraham..." - Heb. 11:8

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises...." - Heb. 11:13, kjv.
 
Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The ones God is referring to in verse 13 are the ones listed from vers 7.
 
The ones God is referring to in verse 13 are the ones listed from vers 7.

Enoch died with all the rest of the patriarchs.

"These all died" (Heb. 11:13) ----- plain and simple!
 
Enoch did not taste death, just as Elijah did not taste death!
 
Enoch did not taste death, just as Elijah did not taste death!

evanman

The first death is appointed unto all mankind (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot be humanly evaded. It is inevitable. That death Enoch died, as Paul tells us in Hebrews 11:13.


But Paul was not writing about that death. The phrase "should not see" is in the conditional tense of the verb, having reference to a future event. It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see' death - but that he "should not see death."

So this death that Enoch escaped by being translated is one that he can escape in the future ON CERTAIN CONDITIONS.


Did Jesus ever speak of a death that might be escaped? He certainly did! In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death" -- shall never suffer the second death.

In John 11:26, "Whoso lives and believes in me shall never die" -- or "shall not die forever."


This death is one than can be escaped on condition that men keep the saying of Jesus and believe Him. This death is not the first death, because Christians who keep Jesus' sayings die this first death. Then the death which Enoch should escape must be the second death which will NEVER TOUCH THOSE WHO ARE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev. 20:6).
And Enoch will be in the first resurrection because he met the conditions!


Enoch had faith. He believed God and walked with God, obeying Him. In keeping the sayings of God, Enoch kept the sayings of Jesus too; because Jesus did not speak of Himself, but spoke what the Father commanded Him (John 14:10).


Thus Enoch met the conditions so that he should not see death. The second death shall never touch Enoch, because of his faith and obedience.
 
Enosch was TRANSLATED. He was walking with God all his life. Eventually he walked straight out of this life into the next.

Elijah also did not die, he was taken up into heaven!
 
Enoch was TRANSLATED. He was walking with God all his life. Eventually he walked straight out of this life into the next.

Elijah also did not die, he was taken up into heaven!

evanman, thanks for your reply and discussion.

1) This Greek word for "translate" is the same Greek word rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16: Jacob died and his body was "carried over" -- transported, translated -- to Sychem where he was buried.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/ -- type in "translated", then "carried over" -- in: NT -- the same Greek word is used.


2) Jesus says no man is in Heaven (Jn 3:13).

Either we have it wrong, or Jesus has it wrong.


Thank you.
 
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

He didn't say "No man is in heaven" He said that NO man had ASCENDED up to heaven!
 
Does the phrase that says Enoch "should not see death" mean Enoch never died? Hebrews 11:13, "These all died [including Enoch] in faith." But not only that, verse 13 goes on to say that they did not receive the promises.

One of the promises was a heavenly country (verse 16). If Enoch were in heaven, wouldn't he have received that promise?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
 
Bob10 said:
Does the phrase that says Enoch "should not see death" mean Enoch never died? Hebrews 11:13, "These all died [including Enoch] in faith." But not only that, verse 13 goes on to say that they did not receive the promises.

One of the promises was a heavenly country (verse 16). If Enoch were in heaven, wouldn't he have received that promise?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html

The verse in Hebrews makes no mention of Enoch!
 
Whether it was "no man is in Heaven" or "no man has ASCENDED up to heaven" could mean something. But what we must remember is that the Bible speaks of three Heavens. So...which Heaven did Enoch go to?
 
"By faith Abel..." - Heb. 11:4
"By faith Enoch..." - Heb. 11:5
"By faith Noah..." - Heb. 11:7
"By faith Abraham..." - Heb. 11:8
"Through faith also Sara herself received strength...." - Heb. 11:11

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises...." - Heb. 11:13, kjv.


Vic, Enoch died.
 
I shall not persist in this pointless discussion with you!

You insist that Enoch died--the Bible teaches that he didn't, I have shown you from the scriptures the context of the statement in Hebrews "All these died" you persist in your belief, fine--it's a non-essential doctrine!
 
evanman

it's a non-essential doctrine!


Why would so important a doctrine (going to heaven when we died or to ever lasting hell fire) rest with a seemingly obscure single story of Enoch? Why wouldn't have Jesus been more forthwith with such a revelation and promise? Why didn't Paul talk about it? Why aren't there verses that say, "When we get to heaven" or "When we die, we go to heaven" and the like? What DO we have?

John 3: 13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
KJV

Jesus says that NO MAN has ascended up to heaven. Sort of eliminates Enoch right there doesn't it? Since Jesus is the God we read of in the Old Testament, He should have remembered if Enoch did go up to heaven...right?
 
evanman said:
I shall not persist in this pointless discussion with you!

You insist that Enoch died--the Bible teaches that he didn't, I have shown you from the scriptures the context of the statement in Hebrews "All these died" you persist in your belief, fine--it's a non-essential doctrine!
Bob10 said:
Jesus says that NO MAN has ascended up to heaven. Sort of eliminates Enoch right there doesn't it? Since Jesus is the God we read of in the Old Testament, He should have remembered if Enoch did go up to heaven...right?
My question is still valid. Which Heaven was Jesus speaking about? Until this point is settled, I'm with Evanman...non-essential. :-?
 
My question is still valid. Which Heaven was Jesus speaking about?

John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."


These words were spoken by Jesus himself at a time when only Christ had seen God (John 1:18).

And how did He know that no man had ascended up to heaven...the throne of God? Because he came from there!

Therefore, what heaven did Elijah go to? What about Enoch and Moses?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
 
I think that the Amplified Version (I can't believe I'm actually saying this :biggrin ) put's this text into a slightly better light.

In Hebrews 11:5 it writes, " Because of faith Enoch was caught up and was transferred to heaven, so that he did not have a glimpse of; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For even before he was taken to heaven, he received testimony[still on record] that he had pleased and been satisfactory to God.

I actually like the Amplified. It can make some things more clear.
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst

According to the biblical narrative (Genesis 5:21-24), Enoch lived only 365 years (far less than the other patriarchs in the period before the Flood).

Neither scripture tells us how or where God took him, only that He did. Did God take Enoch to heaven? Clearly not, because Jesus Himself said that "no one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man ..."

Further, Hebrews 11 lists many faithful men and women of the Bible (including Enoch) but concludes that "all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise ..." (verse 39). Obviously, then, Enoch neither ascended to heaven nor received
the promised eternal life.
 
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