Did Moses really write the first five books of the Bible?

[JohnDB]

Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite group of languages being a branch of the Northwest Semitic family of languages. According to Avraham Ben-Yosef, Hebrew flourished as a spoken language in the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah during about 1200 to 586BCE.

Moses would have learnt the Egyptian language and being a member of the Egyptian court he would have also learnt the Akkadian language. Anything Moses would have written would be from these two languages. Moses would have used the Aramaic alphabet which is ancestral to the Hebrew alphabet.

What Moses wrote, or that which may have been oral could have possibly been transcribed by someone else into the Hebrew language of the Torah.

Moses was born in Goshen, Lower Egypt, New Kingdom of Egypt and raised by the Egyptians. Even though he was and Israelite by birth he never entered the promise land of Israel. He died in 1407BC in Mount Nebo, Jordan.

According to Rabbi Michael Schneider (calendar expert) the actual year date is unknown. A Diaspora and Exile and Hollacaust and multiple inquisitions will do that...
Right now they got a problem with the day of the week. The lunar and astral calendar is telling them that Sunday is actually Saturday. (The Sabbath) and the actual year?...guesses are what they are relying upon.

 

[for_his_glory]

According to Rabbi Michael Schneider (calendar expert) the actual year date is unknown. A Diaspora and Exile and Hollacaust and multiple inquisitions will do that...
Right now they got a problem with the day of the week. The lunar and astral calendar is telling them that Sunday is actually Saturday. (The Sabbath) and the actual year?...guesses are what they are relying upon.

Actually it really doesn't matter the date of the origin of the Hebrew alphabet, but the point that Moses probably had someone else transcribe his oral and probably written language that is found in the Pentateuch since he spoke more of the Aramaic then he would have in the Hebrew.

And yes, I know what you mean about the Saturday Sabbath being changed to Sunday..................oi veh

 

[JohnDB]

Actually it really doesn't matter the date of the origin of the Hebrew alphabet, but the point that Moses probably had someone else transcribe his oral and probably written language that is found in the Pentateuch since he spoke more of the Aramaic then he would have in the Hebrew.

And yes, I know what you mean about the Saturday Sabbath being changed to Sunday..................oi veh

And one other little thing...
I'm thinking and hypothesizing that the originals that either Moses or Joshua penned actually formed word art pictures.
They kept a copy of the Torah inside the Ark up at least till Joash was King. (8 y.o. boy who replaced that short term queen)

But we really won't know until we get to Heaven.

 

[JohnDB]

Actually it really doesn't matter the date of the origin of the Hebrew alphabet, but the point that Moses probably had someone else transcribe his oral and probably written language that is found in the Pentateuch since he spoke more of the Aramaic then he would have in the Hebrew.

And yes, I know what you mean about the Saturday Sabbath being changed to Sunday..................oi veh

The biggest thing is that both the Jews and the SDA will have a lot of splainin to do Lucy...

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Yes,
But the sad fact is this. We live in a culture that is losing its ability to discern and deductive reasoning coupled with polar separation is taking its place.

If a professor can prove through evidence that the foundation of Gods word is founded on myth and fairytale because how could Moses record Gods word when there wasn't an alphabet? And the alphabet Hebrew is founded on didn't exist till centuries later?

For a thinking man, he will teach his students that Moses could not have written Torah, and since Torah says Moses did, it is an unreliable source.

Jesus says Moses wrote of him. It even causes one to doubt Jesus.

Maybe its because I didn't sleep well last night but I don't understand where you are going with this. Lots of enthusiasm to watch this film, lamenting that current culture is losing ability to discern and then questioning Jesus' reference to the scriptures Moses recorded?

To me this is just another attempt by someone who doesn't really believe God's word - or doesn't want to have to believe God's word - to discredit it.
Even before these words were written down they were true: Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
So when you read the Bible and find something a little to sharp for your tastes but you are smart enough to know that God is still God, what do you do? Look to discredit the writings so that part looks old-fashioned, inaccurately translated, embellished, or even just plain false.

I've said before that everyone should be wary of denominations and traditions that make the death and resurrection of Christ unnecessary (ie: belief in works or baptism + faith). I would also recommend everyone be wary of scholars who are more focused on something in their history books than on God's infallible word.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

And yes, I know what you mean about the Saturday Sabbath being changed to Sunday..................oi veh

I'm confused. Are you saying that Christians that worship on Sunday have moved the Sabbath day from the 7th day to the first day of the week?
In all the accounts of Christ's resurrection, his followers found the empty tomb on the first day of the week and "after the Sabbath" and in Acts they are recorded as meeting on the first day of the week. So its not a matter of changing the Sabbath, but of worshiping on Sunday instead.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm confused. Are you saying that Christians that worship on Sunday have moved the Sabbath day from the 7th day to the first day of the week?
In all the accounts of Christ's resurrection, his followers found the empty tomb on the first day of the week and "after the Sabbath" and in Acts they are recorded as meeting on the first day of the week. So its not a matter of changing the Sabbath, but of worshiping on Sunday instead.

No...
The calendar as far as days of the week were accurate at that point (they think)
Its after that they believe something somewhere was changed and everything became off.

 

[Nathan12]

Many scholars are now trying to say Moses could not have written the foundation of the Bible.

For Christians the only thing that matters is what the Lord Jesus Christ had to say about the Torah (the five books of Moses). Most so-called scholars today are unbelievers.

CHRIST CALLED THE TORAH "MOSES"
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk 24:27)

The Hebrews, and Jews regarded all the OT writers as "the prophets". "Beginning at Moses" refers to the Torah, since the three major divisions of the Hebrew Tanakh are (1) Torah (Moses or the Law of Moses) -- 5 books, (2) Neviim (the Prophets) -- 8 books, and (3) Ketuvim (the Psalms or Writings) -- 11 books.

CHRIST CALLED THE TORAH "THE LAW OF MOSES"
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Lk 24:44).

Conclusion: Ignore the scholars as much as possible.

 

[stovebolts]

Maybe its because I didn't sleep well last night but I don't understand where you are going with this. Lots of enthusiasm to watch this film, lamenting that current culture is losing ability to discern and then questioning Jesus' reference to the scriptures Moses recorded?

To me this is just another attempt by someone who doesn't really believe God's word - or doesn't want to have to believe God's word - to discredit it.
Even before these words were written down they were true: Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
So when you read the Bible and find something a little to sharp for your tastes but you are smart enough to know that God is still God, what do you do? Look to discredit the writings so that part looks old-fashioned, inaccurately translated, embellished, or even just plain false.

I've said before that everyone should be wary of denominations and traditions that make the death and resurrection of Christ unnecessary (ie: belief in works or baptism + faith). I would also recommend everyone be wary of scholars who are more focused on something in their history books than on God's infallible word.

Well said, and sorry if I took any enthusiasm away from the film. BTW, the three main scholars who are also prominent professors were raised in good Christian homes. They all fell away in their studies. This film helps anyone that encounters these questions with solid evidence supporting the bible.

But what's really cool is the end! It set my hair on edge it was so cool!

 

[stovebolts]

For Christians the only thing that matters is what the Lord Jesus Christ had to say about the Torah (the five books of Moses). Most so-called scholars today are unbelievers.

CHRIST CALLED THE TORAH "MOSES"
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk 24:27)

The Hebrews, and Jews regarded all the OT writers as "the prophets". "Beginning at Moses" refers to the Torah, since the three major divisions of the Hebrew Tanakh are (1) Torah (Moses or the Law of Moses) -- 5 books, (2) Neviim (the Prophets) -- 8 books, and (3) Ketuvim (the Psalms or Writings) -- 11 books.

CHRIST CALLED THE TORAH "THE LAW OF MOSES"
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Lk 24:44).

Conclusion: Ignore the scholars as much as possible.

Ha! Good call, and that works for me. However, I work with unchurched milineals who are pretty sharp and they ask me about these things. They won't accept just my faith, they want reasoned answers.

 

[Truthfrees]

Well said, and sorry if I took any enthusiasm away from the film. BTW, the three main scholars who are also prominent professors were raised in good Christian homes. They all fell away in their studies. This film helps anyone that encounters these questions with solid evidence supporting the bible.

But what's really cool is the end! It set my hair on edge it was so cool!

are you saying this film debunks the scholars or confirms the scholars?

 

[stovebolts]

are you saying this film debunks the scholars or confirms the scholars?

It affirms Moses both wrote the Torah and that he wrote it in Hebrew aka proto Semitic.
I dont want to spoil the end! It's an amazing documentary. Go check it out tomorrow if you can!

 

[stovebolts]

Oh, lisa-in-FL, I hope you sleep better tonight!

 

[jasonc]

We're not talking about the spoken language, we are talking about the written language.

I'll play devil's advocate just to prove a point.

It is agreed that the Hebrew alphabet is Semitic. Nobody denies this nor should they.

What does our educational system teach us about the Semitic alphabet in regards to origin?

In other words, what is the origin of the Hebrew alphabet?

the origin of the Hebrew is actually Assyrian and closest to Aramaic and those proto languages as that is what abram came from and also the semitic languages of the canaan of the time are close to that. phonecia is a greek language cousin and its where we get the word alpha bet from as that language is the first to use the modern type of alphabet that all that were around the meditterean use. aramiac and its cousin that used the cunieaform(Babylon and Assyria,chaldea) and so forth was around and its possible that Abraham didn't know how to write that.
just my guess on that part

 

[Truthfrees]

It affirms Moses both wrote the Torah and that he wrote it in Hebrew aka proto Semitic.
I dont want to spoil the end! It's an amazing documentary. Go check it out tomorrow if you can!

ok - awesome - thanks

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm confused. Are you saying that Christians that worship on Sunday have moved the Sabbath day from the 7th day to the first day of the week?
In all the accounts of Christ's resurrection, his followers found the empty tomb on the first day of the week and "after the Sabbath" and in Acts they are recorded as meeting on the first day of the week. So its not a matter of changing the Sabbath, but of worshiping on Sunday instead.

The Hebrew Sabbath was instituted by God given to Moses in Exodus 16 as a day that started from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset as a day of remembrance or a memorial of the Exodus exile as God parted the sea bringing the Hebrews to the promised land by defeating their foes. Hebrews used a Lunar Calendar that is different from our Gregorian calendar we use today.

They, who call themselves Christian, but by name only, worship the sun god Ra changed it to Sunday worship. Really can not explain itin full as it comes against the ToS, but you can look it up.

 

[Truthfrees]

The Hebrew Sabbath was instituted by God given to Moses in Exodus 16 as a day that started from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset as a day of remembrance or a memorial of the Exodus exile as God parted the sea bringing the Hebrews to the promised land by defeating their foes. Hebrews used a Lunar Calendar that is different from our Gregorian calendar we use today.

They, who call themselves Christian, but by name only, worship the sun god Ra changed it to Sunday worship. Really can not explain it in full as it comes against the ToS, but you can look it up.

amen - good points

1 correction though:

pesach/passover was instituted as a 8-9 day feast of the Lord every year to remember the exodus from egypt

shabbat was instituted as a day of rest on the 7th day because God rested from creating/working on the 7th day of creation - for example while in the wilderness the israelites were not allowed to gather manna on the 7th day - they had to gather a double portion on the 6th day and leave none over for the 1st day aka the 9th day

 

[stovebolts]

There's no question that the dumbing down of Western students has been going on for a long time. But since there were alphabets in existence long before Moses wrote the Torah (c. 1500 BC) the professor would be lying through his teeth.

"The early Hebrew (Semitic) alphabet was used by many Semitic peoples of the ancient Near East, including the Canaanites, Moabites, Arameans, Phoenicians, Amonites and the Hebrews. This alphabet existed between the 20th and 12th centuries B.C. However, note that the 20th century date is based on the oldest inscriptions found thus far and it is possible that future discoveries may push the date of the Semitic alphabet back even farther into history. To date, the Wadi El-Hhol inscriptions found in southern Egypt are the oldest Semitic inscriptions found and date to between the 19th and 20th centuries B.C. The Sinaitic inscriptions from the Sinai Peninsula date to about the 15th century B.C. ..."

History of the Hebrew Alphabet

The Hebrew alphabet has gone through an evolution over the past 4,000 years, from it's original pictographic script, similar to Egyptian heiroglyphics, to the modern alphabet in use today.

www.ancient-hebrew.org

Excellent observations.
Here is a snipit from his blog site to give you an ideal what he's dealing with. I'm glad you've studied some of this already, it's more than I did before I saw the movie.

Hebrew is a member of a family of ancient languages known as the Northwest Semitic group. All of the languages in this group were similar and several of them developed related styles of script in the first millennium BC, shown in the map above. However, none of these scripts are thought to have gone back as far as the time of the Exodus.

Scholars believe that Hebrew is one of the oldest of these scripts. However, the fact that Old Hebrew is thought to have first emerged around 900 BC contributes to the thinking that the accounts in the first books of the Bible, like the exodus from Egypt, were passed down as oral traditions that became exaggerated and mixed with fiction before being written down centuries later.

Was Hebrew the First Alphabet in the World and Used by Moses?

Is Hebrew first alphabet known? Might the world’s oldest alphabet actually be Hebrew, which emerged just in time for Moses to use to write the Torah?

patternsofevidence.com