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Do Seventh Day Adventists Preach Error?

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269
Tina said:
.
When one examines the major sins pointed out in the New Testament as in the scriptures above , the “great sin" of Sabbath-breaking that Adventists keep harping upon does NOT appear to have caught the attention of the authors of the New Testament !

In the OLD Testament, the Israelites were punished for rejecting the old covenant and the Sabbath, the sign of the old covenant.

Show me one scripture in the New Testament where Sabbath-breaking is mentioned as a SIN .... that will possibly warrant loss of salvation for the unrepentant Christian !



.
Wrong, the Sabbath was the sign of creation, not the Old Covenant (Exodus 31:17). And you will not find any specific reference to breaking the Sabbath as sin because everyone kept it. In fact, there is no clear evidence of Sunday worship until the year 150 A.D. Over a century after Christ! For instance, the sin of associating with "familiar spirits" isn’t mentioned in the New Testament but yet we unanimously agree that it is still a sin to do so. This wasn’t mentioned because this principle is understood as fundamentally wrong and contrary to the will of God. So, naturally, you would not find any scripture that addressed this because everyone understood that it was and is a “no noâ€Â. The same holds true for the Sabbath. Sabbath-breaking as sin isn’t mentioned because everyone kept it – Jesus, Paul, all of the Jews, the Gentiles, and many others. So, that view isn’t logical in terms of disregarding the fourth commandment. Since when does God have to make it clear and remind us to continue to keep a commandment that came directly from Him? That’s like saying that we can bow down to graven images because the New Testament does not explicitly say that it is still a sin. But because of this do we do it?? Exactly…

Apparently, the New Testament is not completely silent on the issue because it is very clear that the God you serve kept the Sabbath and the bible says that we should walk as He walked (1 John 2:6). Furthermore, we can’t say that He kept it so that we could now disregard it because they kept it even after His death (Luke 23:56, Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44). Furthermore, when Jesus was prophesying about the destruction of the temple that occurred in 70 A.D. and the end of the world, He makes reference to the Sabbath day (Matthew 24:20). Now, if the Sabbath was null and void, why would Jesus mention the Sabbath day when He speaks about the future? He says pray that you will not have to flee for your life on this holy day where are suppose to rest. So, the New Testament does validate the continuity of the Sabbath but does not (like many other laws that we still consider a sin) speak about breaking this principle a sin. So because of this, and regardless of the weight of evidence that the gospels give that show us its permanence, should we disregard the day for Sunday which wasn’t clearly mentioned until decades after Christ’s and the apostles’ ministry??


My point exactly…
 
N

NIGHTMARE

Guest
We are to observe and hold the sabbath,,,,so yes we are to keep the sabbath.....But what does Sabbath mean?????


The word "sabbath" comes direct from the Hebrew means it simple means "rest" When Christ rose from the dead He became our Sabbath thus we should have rest in Christ everyday....

Colossians 2:16, 17; "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days; Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Being/resting in Christ is holding the Sabbath....
 
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francisdesales said:
Sounds like good logic to me. What does Eric's personal views have to do with defending SDA doctrines? Brother L, you need to defend SDA doctrines, since that is the theme of this topic as well as the question asked by Eric. Turning the tables on Eric does not defend SDA's ridiculous adherence to PART of the Mosaic Law, arbitrarily chosen, at that... The Jews didn't pick and choose which of the Mosaic Laws they followed. Why does the SDA and based upon what Scriptural evidence?


Regards
Ok well lets see. He informed me that all of the Hebrew law has been done away with. This, of course, goes against my beliefs as an SDA so I proceeded to ask him if the sin of associating with familiar spirits (found in Deut) is still a sin today. He refused to answer because if he would say yes, then he would go against everything he believes in as far as the Hebrew law being abolished and, by default would, to an extent, support my view on the OT law in that some laws are still valid while others are not. So this is why the answer to this question is important: if he says "yes, this law is still in effect", then he himself would contradict his view and support my view of the OT law and would be defending a part of SDA doctrine without even being an SDA. If he says "no, this law is no longer in effect" (which he is implying being that he believes that all of the Hebrew law is done away with), then he would sound completly illogical from a Christian perspective because this view is basically saying that we can now associate with demonic spirits and those who did these things were an abomination in the OT but now they have the green light and are "ok" in the eyes of God.

And since you chimed in on the question, what is your view? Should we still abide by this law?

Here is the law just in case you need to view it...

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire (of Molech), or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee."
 
N

NIGHTMARE

Guest
Brother Lionel said:
francisdesales said:
Sounds like good logic to me. What does Eric's personal views have to do with defending SDA doctrines? Brother L, you need to defend SDA doctrines, since that is the theme of this topic as well as the question asked by Eric. Turning the tables on Eric does not defend SDA's ridiculous adherence to PART of the Mosaic Law, arbitrarily chosen, at that... The Jews didn't pick and choose which of the Mosaic Laws they followed. Why does the SDA and based upon what Scriptural evidence?


Regards
Ok well lets see. He informed me that all of the Hebrew law has been done away with. This, of course, goes against my beliefs as an SDA so I proceeded to ask him if the sin of associating with familiar spirits (found in Deut) is still a sin today. He refused to answer because if he would say yes, then he would go against everything he believes in as far as the Hebrew law being abolished and, by default would, to an extent, support my view on the OT law in that some laws are still valid while others are not. So this is why the answer to this question is important: if he says "yes, this law is still in effect", then he himself would contradict his view and support my view of the OT law and would be defending a part of SDA doctrine without even being an SDA. If he says "no, this law is no longer in effect" (which he is implying being that he believes that all of the Hebrew law is done away with), then he would sound completly illogical from a Christian perspective because this view is basically saying that we can now associate with demonic spirits and those who did these things were an abomination in the OT but now they have the green light and are "ok" in the eyes of God.

And since you chimed in on the question, what is your view? Should we still abide by this law?

Here is the law just in case you need to view it...

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire (of Molech), or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

And since you chimed in on the question, what is your view? Should we still abide by this law?

UMM YEAH ....... :yes
 
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Brother Lionel said:
Ok well lets see. He informed me that all of the Hebrew law has been done away with.
Actually, you asked him first and he initially refused to answer, correctly seeing that you were trying to switch the burden of proof upon him. He correctly states that his point of view is inconsequential to the belief system of the SDA.

Brother Lionel said:
This, of course, goes against my beliefs as an SDA so I proceeded to ask him if the sin of associating with familiar spirits (found in Deut) is still a sin today. He refused to answer because if he would say yes,
Ironically, your narrow logic doesn't take into account that he is not Christian, as he has stated. Thus, his views are even MORE inconsequential, viz a viz the Mosaic Law and whether they apply to Christians. He states the heart of the problem - the SDA's apparently random dissection of the Mosaic Law that remains applicable, while discarding the rest.

Brother Lionel said:
And since you chimed in on the question, what is your view? Should we still abide by this law?
Does being Catholic have any authoritative bearing on the subject of SDA beliefs?

My views are expressed on another thread, since they refer to the thread topic. Let's leave them there and hear about the SDA's error/no error on the Mosaic Law, rather than what a non-Christian or a Catholic believes. Based on what does the SDA divide the Mosaic Law?

Please don't ask my opinion on whether I should stone my child who is a malcreant or any other such laws. Or do you defend that Mosaic Law, as well?

Regards
 
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Brother Lionel said:
So because of this, and regardless of the weight of evidence that the gospels give that show us its permanence, should we disregard the day for Sunday which wasn’t clearly mentioned until decades after Christ’s and the apostles’ ministry??


My point exactly…
No doubt, Paul had to contend with a number of such "brother lionel's" on the subject of "disregarding" the law to circumcise, as well...

Can you find in the OT where Paul could cite as authoritative for ending the requirement to be circumcised? Or did the Church act upon its authority to bind and loosen upon the community?

My point exactly... The SDA is just the modern day version of Judaizers. The Bible merely relates what the Church had ALREADY been DOING... For years...
 

guibox

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NIGHTMARE said:
The word "sabbath" comes direct from the Hebrew means it simple means "rest" When Christ rose from the dead He became our Sabbath thus we should have rest in Christ everyday....

Colossians 2:16, 17; "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days; Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
As pat and convenient to say that 'Jesus is our Sabbath rest' based on a cursory reading of Hebrews 4, Sabbath abrogators cannot simply excuse away many things about the validity of the Sabbath.

1) The Sabbath was not some sort of temporary covenant for a specific people. The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and made holy by God, Himself irrespective of human involvement.

Nobody has ever explained why that is and why this aspect is directly tied in with the Exodus commandment which refers back to this aspect of creation

2) As was pointed out, if the Sabbath was simply abolished in Christ, why would Christ prophecy in Matthew 24 of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D and place emphasis on a supposedly abrogated festival?

3) Why is it that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles and to the Gentiles ALONE on the Sabbath. Where is the mention of Sunday worship or 'there is no more Sabbath day, come back tomorrow'? The argument from silence here is deafening.

4) Why is it that the Sabbath was kept by the head church in Jerusalem well into the 4th and 5th centuries if it was supposedly abolished in Christ and was supposedly an accepted norm by Christianity?

These arguments alone which have never been properly addressed by abrogators should give anybody pause to simply consider the Sabbath done away with while observing all of the other 9.
 
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NIGHTMARE

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guibox said:
NIGHTMARE said:
The word "sabbath" comes direct from the Hebrew means it simple means "rest" When Christ rose from the dead He became our Sabbath thus we should have rest in Christ everyday....

Colossians 2:16, 17; "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days; Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
As pat and convenient to say that 'Jesus is our Sabbath rest' based on a cursory reading of Hebrews 4, Sabbath abrogators cannot simply excuse away many things about the validity of the Sabbath.

1) The Sabbath was not some sort of temporary covenant for a specific people. The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and made holy by God, Himself irrespective of human involvement.

Nobody has ever explained why that is and why this aspect is directly tied in with the Exodus commandment which refers back to this aspect of creation

2) As was pointed out, if the Sabbath was simply abolished in Christ, why would Christ prophecy in Matthew 24 of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D and place emphasis on a supposedly abrogated festival?

3) Why is it that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles and to the Gentiles ALONE on the Sabbath. Where is the mention of Sunday worship or 'there is no more Sabbath day, come back tomorrow'? The argument from silence here is deafening.

4) Why is it that the Sabbath was kept by the head church in Jerusalem well into the 4th and 5th centuries if it was supposedly abolished in Christ and was supposedly an accepted norm by Christianity?

These arguments alone which have never been properly addressed by abrogators should give anybody pause to simply consider the Sabbath done away with while observing all of the other 9.
Nobody has ever explained why that is and why this aspect is directly tied in with the Exodus commandment which refers back to this aspect of creation
"Nobody" is a very strong word......One would have to understand creation first....

[quote2) As was pointed out, if the Sabbath was simply abolished in Christ, why would Christ prophecy in Matthew 24 of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D and place emphasis on a supposedly abrogated festival?
][/quote]

Christ Propehecy was not about 70ad,,,,The invasion by Titus was not the destuction foretold,,,see Zecheriah 14........

3) Why is it that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles and to the Gentiles ALONE on the Sabbath. Where is the mention of Sunday worship or 'there is no more Sabbath day, come back tomorrow'? The argument from silence here is deafening.

Paul was a Jew himself from the tribe of Benjamin......

Head church in Jerusalem????? Who was running this church??????? Jews???? or those that call themselves Jews but lie and are of satan......Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9
 
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francisdesales said:
Brother Lionel said:
Ok well lets see. He informed me that all of the Hebrew law has been done away with.
Actually, you asked him first and he initially refused to answer, correctly seeing that you were trying to switch the burden of proof upon him. He correctly states that his point of view is inconsequential to the belief system of the SDA.

[quote="Brother Lionel":2nuszjrb]

This, of course, goes against my beliefs as an SDA so I proceeded to ask him if the sin of associating with familiar spirits (found in Deut) is still a sin today. He refused to answer because if he would say yes,
Ironically, your narrow logic doesn't take into account that he is not Christian, as he has stated. Thus, his views are even MORE inconsequential, viz a viz the Mosaic Law and whether they apply to Christians. He states the heart of the problem - the SDA's apparently random dissection of the Mosaic Law that remains applicable, while discarding the rest.

Brother Lionel said:
And since you chimed in on the question, what is your view? Should we still abide by this law?
Does being Catholic have any authoritative bearing on the subject of SDA beliefs?

My views are expressed on another thread, since they refer to the thread topic. Let's leave them there and hear about the SDA's error/no error on the Mosaic Law, rather than what a non-Christian or a Catholic believes. Based on what does the SDA divide the Mosaic Law?

Please don't ask my opinion on whether I should stone my child who is a malcreant or any other such laws. Or do you defend that Mosaic Law, as well?

Regards[/quote:2nuszjrb]


Wow! You refuse to answer as well! Should we or shouldnt we associate with familiar spirits according to Deuteronomy ???
 
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francisdesales said:
Brother Lionel said:
So because of this, and regardless of the weight of evidence that the gospels give that show us its permanence, should we disregard the day for Sunday which wasn’t clearly mentioned until decades after Christ’s and the apostles’ ministry??


My point exactly…
No doubt, Paul had to contend with a number of such "brother lionel's" on the subject of "disregarding" the law to circumcise, as well...

Can you find in the OT where Paul could cite as authoritative for ending the requirement to be circumcised? Or did the Church act upon its authority to bind and loosen upon the community?

My point exactly... The SDA is just the modern day version of Judaizers. The Bible merely relates what the Church had ALREADY been DOING... For years...
Wrong my friend. And to prove it, I'll ask one question:

Was circumcision a ceremonial ritual to make one "clean"??
 

Croc7801

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TheCatholic said:
Do Seventh Day Adventists Preach Error?

The following is a quote from a site published by Bible Baptist Church in Canada. Your thoughts.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0154.htm


Seventh Day Adventist Error

Do Seventh Day Adventists Preach The Truth Or A Combination Of Truth And Error?

Because Seventh Day Adventists do proclaim many precious truths from the Word of God, some believers do not realize how much error is also included in their teachings. It is not only a matter of the false teaching which makes supposed Sabbath keeping a condition for or evidence of salvation; but, by accepting writings of Seventh Day Adventist founder, Ellen G. White, as inspired. The following quotations from a Seventh Day Adventist publication called Jesus Is Coming published by Morning Star Publishers is further evidence of their dangerous editions to the Word of God. The following is quoted verbatim from the above publication and is taken from the book "Dreams and Visions" by Jeanine Sautron which is described by morning Star Publishers as "A powerful set of instructions, specifically provided for God's children living world wide in these last days. This God-inspired hard cover book of 255 pages is available for $20."..."The events of the End are preparing themselves rapidly. The Angel told me, 'Be ready morally because the mark of the beast will be put in operation in America, and that will come suddenly. Each one who wishes to be faithful will loose his or her liberty. This temptation of the mark of the beast will take the whole world by surprise and will trample under feet liberty of conscience. That country will compel free, slave, rich or poor, small and great to take that mark; each of us will have to make our choice, either for or against God.' The angel showed me that that mark is invisible, and its code is 666." It must be kept in mind that it has always been a key distinctive of Adventist teaching that all who were non-Sabbath keepers would be those who would accept the "mark of the beast". There is a vast difference between Seventh Day Adventists and Biblical Christianity which makes a clear distinction between Israel and the Church; between Law and Grace; between a works salvation and salvation through faith alone in the shed Blood of the Lamb.
~ Foundation
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Questions/QA135
We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.

1. In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.
2. The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
3. The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.
4. In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).
5. Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.
6. There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.
7. When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.
8. The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.
9. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).
10. In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).
11. The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).
12. Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).


So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath."

John Calvin took a similar position. He wrote,

There were three reasons for giving this [fourth] commandment: First, with the seventh day of rest the Lord wished to give to the people of Israel an image of spiritual rest, whereby believers must cease from their own works in order to let the Lord work in them. Secondly, he wished that there be an established day in which believers might assemble in order to hear his Law and worship him. Thirdly, he willed that one day of rest be granted to servants and to those who live under the power of others so that they might have a relaxation from their labor. The latter, however, is rather an inferred than a principal reason.

As to the first reason, there is no doubt that it ceased in Christ; because he is the truth by the presence of which all images vanish. He is the reality at whose advent all shadows are abandoned. Hence St. Paul (Col. 2:17) that the sabbath has been a shadow of a reality yet to be. And he declares elsewhere its truth when in the letter to the Romans, ch. 6:8, he teaches us that we are buried with Christ in order that by his death we may die to the corruption of our flesh. And this is not done in one day, but during all the course of our life, until altogether dead in our own selves, we may be filled with the life of God. Hence, superstitious observance of days must remain far from Christians.

The two last reasons, however, must not be numbered among the shadows of old. Rather, they are equally valid for all ages. Hence, though the sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church.

As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for administering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. [From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"].
 
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Please read the previous posts before posting your views because most of what you are trying to say has been addressed... :yes

But I'll be more than happy to go over them again if you would like :)
 

Tina

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.
Brother Lionel said:
1. So are you trying to say that it's only the Pope who's doomed for hell ? ...... :confused

1. No, I am not saying that either. What I am saying is that those who have the knowledge of the truth and still refuse to live by it will have to give an account for their decisions and actions (Hebrews 10:26). There are a lot of people, Catholic and Protestant who are “doomed for hell†because there are both Catholics and Protestants who have not accepted Jesus as their Savior and are not living according to the will of God. In other words, just because you belong to an organization or particular group of believers doesn’t guarantee that you will be saved or lost. This is why I state that there will be millions of good, God-fearing Catholics who will make it to the kingdom because they are worshipping God according to the knowledge that they have and God will not hold them accountable for the things that they do not know. However, there are those who know exactly what’s going on and yet they refuse to side with God in terms of doctrine and lifestyle. Those are the ones who Jesus will judge (Matthew 7:21-23).
That's great ! :biggrin ... So nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday or any other day then ..... :biglol



Brother Lionel said:
2. Since you are sure that millions of God-fearing Christians and Catholics who worshipped God on Sunday will go to heaven, then what exactly is the point of observing a Saturday Sabbath ?

2. Because those who will make it to the kingdom even though they observed Sunday did not know. Again, God judges according to the light that you have, not according to what you do not know. And the purpose for observing the Sabbath is because God commands us to do so. That should be enough but, for the sake of the conversation, we also observe it because it is a memorial to acknowledge that He is Creator and the Supreme Authority and giver of life. This is why God says:

Exodus31:16-17
"Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever[/u]: (He proceeds to refer back to creation and what He did as Creator) for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."
That's right !!! ...... As the very scripture you pointed out above says : It is a sign between God and children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel ..... children of Israel .....


Did I mention children of Israel ?......... :confused ........ :chin



.
 

Tina

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Brother Lionel said:
Tina said:
Deuteronomy 11:13, 18 and Exodus 13:9
Both these passages are figurative in nature. Literal reading of these verses have led to the practice of writing the texts of Exodus 1-10, 11-16, Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11-13-21 on separate strips of parchment and placing them in two small leather boxes, which the observant Jew straps on his forehead and left arm before his morning prayers. The boxes are called “phylacteries†(see Matthew 23:5 below). This practice seems to have originated after the exile to Babylon.
Deuteronomy 11:13, 18 & Exodus 13:9 Figurative? According to whom?
*Sigh* ...... :shame ........ According to my NIV Study Bible.
It says here on the cover : "Over 7 million copies sold" ...... :study

Do you think I have some extra-biblical materials like Ellen White's writings ........ :naughty :naughty :naughty



Brother Lionel said:
Would you like to visit these scriptures in context?
What makes you think I haven't ? ? ........... :confused


Brother Lionel said:
Tina said:
Matthew 23:5
But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.


In this passage of Matthew 23, Jesus directly reproves the scribes and Pharisees. The scribes and Pharisees explained the law of Moses, and enforced obedience to it. They are charged with hypocrisy in religion. They can only judge according to outward appearance; but God searches the heart. They made phylacteries. These were scrolls of paper or parchment, wherein were written four paragraphs of the law, to be worn on their foreheads and left arms, (Exo. 13:2 to 10; 13:11 to 16; Deut. 6:4 to 9; 11:13 to 21). They made these phylacteries broad, that they might be thought more zealous for the law than others.
Ok so how does this equate to the disregarding of God’s law??
Nice try !! … So now you are dodging the real issue ……….

In one of your earlier post this is what you said :-



Brother Lionel said:
Now the bible says that the beast will cause all to receive the mark on their right or their forehead. Did you know that God also wants us to place something on our hands and our foreheads? And the Word says:

Deu 11:13, 18 - And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

So here we see that the commandments of God must be placed on our hand and in our foreheads. Now the beast also will cause a mark to be placed on the right hand or on the forehead. Many good people would see this and assume that God was referring to an outward sign but this is not the case. The "sign upon our hand" means to act accordingly, and the"frontlets between the eyes" means to think accordingly being that we worship God with our actions and with our cognitive thinking. Here is another verse to clarify:

Exodus 13:9 - And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

So, God's commandments are to be on our hands and our foreheads. Included in these commandments is, of course, the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath is the commandment that identifies who the Lord is (the Creator), what He made (the world), why He made it holy (because He rested), and what He wants us to do on it (to rest). God calls this commandment a "sign" to be observed forever:
You grossly misinterpreted and skewed scriptures to align with Ellen White’s and SDA’s false teachings. You said “the commandments of God must be placed on our hand and in our foreheads†…. But Jesus equated such people with HYPOCRITES in Matthew 23:5. You said “included in these commandments is, of course, the Sabbath commandment†…. which obviously is YOUR OWN assumption ….

Where in the NEW Testament did Jesus ever commanded Christians to observe Saturday Sabbath ?



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Elijah674

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Elijah here: This has become a spam session on ALL FRONTS! Do Adventist have any other doctrines besides this one that satan hates??? If so where are they??? You ALL are going to die very SOON, where do ADVENTIST teach the DEAD are at, or are going, or do they believe & teach satans first lie for truth as most others do??

Titus 3 Finds about the most VAIN HERTICS that 'i' had ever seen in my whole life on this thread! Christians?? You got to be kidding me? Brothers?? (Not mine FORUM) The Holy Spirit FORUM tells you who & what they are...

[8] This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they [are unprofitable and vain].

[10] A man that is an heretick after [[the first and second admonition reject;]]
(+ ignorant VAIN women) :confused

[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
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Brother Lionel said:
Wow! You refuse to answer as well! Should we or shouldnt we associate with familiar spirits according to Deuteronomy ???
My answer has nothing to do with what the false teachers at the SDA put out for the masses... Can't you or won't you realize that?

And you have not answered me MY question about stoning children. Does the SDA still practice that part of the Law? How about adulterers? Or blasphemers? Why does the SDA pick and choose which of the Mosaic Law that they will adhere to and which they will not???

Regards
 
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Brother Lionel said:
Was circumcision a ceremonial ritual to make one "clean"??
It doesn't matter, if God commanded it, who had the authority to rescind the command? Did God command circumcision or not?

Clearly, the apostles taught that God had delegated this authority to particular men... Sola scriptura fails miserably on this subject, as we do not find a biblical warrant for what the apostles did. It seems evident that the Church believed they had the power to bind and loosen - they even wrote that in the Gospels themselves, telling us that Jesus (God) gave them this authority.

Do you believe that or not?
 
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guibox said:
1) The Sabbath was not some sort of temporary covenant for a specific people. The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and made holy by God, Himself irrespective of human involvement.
Yes, the Sabbath WAS for a specific people. No one before Moses time observed the Sabbath on Saturday and only the Jews observed it on Saturday. It is part of the Old Covenant, and passed away with Christ. Paul makes that clear in Colossians.

God did not write the Mosaic Law on people's hearts. "Thou shall not kill" is written on everyone's hearts, even those who never heard of the Decalogue. Saturday sabbath practice is a Jewish custom and no one but Old Testament observing Jews are bound by it.

guibox said:
2) As was pointed out, if the Sabbath was simply abolished in Christ, why would Christ prophecy in Matthew 24 of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D and place emphasis on a supposedly abrogated festival?
Christ did not say He came to abolish the Sabbath, but the Apostles interpreted His actions at the cross as sufficient to make the Old Covenant abrogated. MOST of the Decalogue's dictates remain in force NOT because they are part of the Mosaic Law, but because they are part of God's HIGHER Law that is given to ALL men.


guibox said:
3) Why is it that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles and to the Gentiles ALONE on the Sabbath. Where is the mention of Sunday worship or 'there is no more Sabbath day, come back tomorrow'? The argument from silence here is deafening.
Where do you get the idea that Paul ONLY preached on Saturdays??? The Bible states that Christian communities got together DAILY. Paul preached on the Sabbath because he would have a larger captive audience, but it doesn't follow that he ONLY taught to Jews on Saturday.

guibox said:
4) Why is it that the Sabbath was kept by the head church in Jerusalem well into the 4th and 5th centuries if it was supposedly abolished in Christ and was supposedly an accepted norm by Christianity?
Where is your evidence that the CHRISTIAN church in Jerusalem "kept the sabbath"? Other Christian writers state that they worshipped God on Sunday as early as the 1st century.

Regards
 
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Elijah674

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Elijah674 said:
Elijah here: This has become a spam session on ALL FRONTS! Do Adventist have any other doctrines besides this one that satan hates??? If so where are they??? You ALL are going to die very SOON, where do ADVENTIST teach the DEAD are at, or are going, or do they believe & teach satans first lie for truth as most others do??

Titus 3 Finds about the most VAIN HERTICS that 'i' had ever seen in my whole life on this thread! Christians?? You got to be kidding me? Brothers?? (Not mine FORUM) The Holy Spirit FORUM tells you who & what they are...

[8] This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they [are unprofitable and vain].

[10] A man that is an heretick after [[the first and second admonition reject;]]
(+ ignorant VAIN women) :confused

[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
PS: If I check the [notify me when a reply is posted] will I remove the SPAM from this post to my inbox?
And is there another thread on what 'REAL' Adventist teach here on this Forum? Surely they BELIEVE in Titus 3:9-11.. or are they like some others who travel from door to door & get their foot in the door & 'i' cannot get it removed? (and these others on here? :confused )
--Elijah
 

guibox

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francisdesales said:
guibox said:
1) The Sabbath was not some sort of temporary covenant for a specific people. The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and made holy by God, Himself irrespective of human involvement.
Yes, the Sabbath WAS for a specific people. No one before Moses time observed the Sabbath on Saturday and only the Jews observed it on Saturday. It is part of the Old Covenant, and passed away with Christ. Paul makes that clear in Colossians..
I would like you to address my statement instead of affirming in your own mind what you already believe. What exactly was the purpose of the seventh day being 'blessed', and 'hallowed' by God outside of man's sphere of influence and then referred directly back to in the Sabbath commandment of Exodus?


francisdesales said:
Where is your evidence that the CHRISTIAN church in Jerusalem "kept the sabbath"? Other Christian writers state that they worshipped God on Sunday as early as the 1st century.
Regards

Though arguments were put forth by Barnabas and Justin Martyr in the early 2nd century, Sunday keeping did not replace Sabbath keeping but was kept either exclusively or in addition to Sunday church services. This link explores the keeping of the Sabbath in the early Christian church. I encourage you to read it and dispute the logic and historical facts of the matter.
http://www.cogwriter.com/sabbath.htm
 

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