Electrical Question

[Knotical]

I have a question for the electrical engineers in the group. I have a couple of motion sensing switches I want to install in my bathrooms. The only problem is nearly nothing in this house is grounded, since it was originally built in the 50's. My question, as it seems possible on the surface but could wind up being inadvertently dangerous, is: is it possible to connect the ground wire to the neutral wire, thus connecting to the ground out at the pole?

 

[JohnDB]

Not unless you want to commit suicide by stupidity...aka darwin award winner.

The cold water line under the sink, toilet or behind the shower can provide you with a ground. (Any one of the three) Make sure you mechanically bond (using a clamp made for the size of copper or iron water pipe you have) a ground wire to the pipe. Your breaker panel should be bonded/grounded to your water line somewhere. You can get your ground there. What will happen if you do like what you wanted is that you will energize all the grounded water lines and items in your house by turning on your light.

Now comes the good question: If this is going to be separate from the wall switch...

You can have the occupancy sensor be the master
You can have the wall switch be the master
Or
You can have them working together by having the constant hot going to both the occupancy sensor and switch AND the switch legs together before they go to the light. The reason is that most occupancy sensors have a timer function on the switch leg before turning off the power pack.

The easiest for you would be a motion sensing switch in the place of your wall switch...but you wont like it when you shower.

 

[Knotical]

I kind of thought this might be the response, but just wanted to be sure.

Running a ground wire to any of the cold water lines would take about as much effort as just running it back to the breaker panel itself. As it is not much farther away from one of the switches I am wanting to change out.

With this revelation I may just continue on with normal single pole switches until we are financially able to hire someone to ground out the entire house.

What is odd is the original owners added a new section onto the house about 20 years ago, and still did not at least ground that part. Also, we have two breaker panels. A small one in a bedroom closet and the main one on the outside of the house. We got a quote about a month ago to consolidate them to the outside panel, as it has the extra slots for the four breakers that are currently in the closet panel, and they said it would be about $455.

 

[Michael74]

I recommend checking the polarity of your 2 prong receptacles before plugging in expensive electronics with a polarized plug. Sometimes older homes haven't been wired for polarity, or a homeowner rewired without considering polarity.

For when you have an electrician rewire for grounding, you can buy a 3 prong circuit tester like this one at Home Depot or a similar store to double check their work. It doesn't detect everything, but it does detect some mistakes.

 

[chessman]

Sengled Smartsense LED Light Bulb... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072JNP3TR?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

 

[Knotical]

Sengled Smartsense LED Light Bulb... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072JNP3TR?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

Wow that thing is ugly. Good suggestion though. The lighting fixtures in our bathrooms at the moment don't cover up the bulbs at all and my wife would not be a happy camper if I tried to replace what we have with these.

 

[chessman]

They probably make some better looking ones. But yea, the bulbs in my bathroom are wife approved. And I always know when one’s out. She tells me versus putting a new one in.

They work pretty well for rooms with bad switch locations (no fumbling around in the dark for the switch). Or laundry rooms (no spare hand to work the switch).

 

[stovebolts]

I recommend checking the polarity of your 2 prong receptacles before plugging in expensive electronics with a polarized plug. Sometimes older homes haven't been wired for polarity, or a homeowner rewired without considering polarity.

For when you have an electrician rewire for grounding, you can buy a 3 prong circuit tester like this one at Home Depot or a similar store to double check their work. It doesn't detect everything, but it does detect some mistakes.

I purchased one of those for my house and I found several outlets wired incorrectly. After fixing them, my electric bill dropped about $40. Maybe it was coincidence, but having a positive leg connected to a negative leg just seems like a drain.

We have a rental and my wife was getting shocked when turning on the outside spigot. I found an outlet wired backward in the basement and I added a ground cable from the cold water pipe to the ground in the breaker box and wha la, no shock!

 

[Michael74]

We have a rental and my wife was getting shocked when turning on the outside spigot.

Wow. I'm glad you were able to fix it before someone got seriously hurt. Electricity should be treated with respect.

$40 seems like electricity was running through the circuit by itself due to mis-wiring. I hope nothing else is wrong.

 

[stovebolts]

Wow. I'm glad you were able to fix it before someone got seriously hurt. Electricity should be treated with respect.

Seems like electricity was running through the circuit by itself due to mis-wiring. I hope nothing else is wrong.

I had an electrician buddy of mine come check everything out because of the liability of it being a rental and peace of mind. He said all the circuits looked good.

He did say an underground wire can cause a shock at the spiggot and tested for current between the earth and the spiggot and nothing came back.

Ohh, I replaced, or rather, I added an additional ground from the circuit box to the ground rod as well.

 

[Michael74]

I had an electrician buddy of mine come check everything out because of the liability of it being a rental and peace of mind. He said all the circuits looked good.

Good. Now you should be safe.

Its a good idea to check the wiring when you move into an older house. I'm glad that you did so.

 

[Knotical]

I recommend checking the polarity of your 2 prong receptacles before plugging in expensive electronics with a polarized plug. Sometimes older homes haven't been wired for polarity, or a homeowner rewired without considering polarity.

For when you have an electrician rewire for grounding, you can buy a 3 prong circuit tester like this one at Home Depot or a similar store to double check their work. It doesn't detect everything, but it does detect some mistakes.

I don't doubt there are probably some things that have been wired incorrectly. About a month, or so, ago I was replacing the ceiling fan in the living room. The old one was wired up to a couple of three-way switches and one single pole dimmer. One of the three-way switches was installed upside down, and both of them were wired incorrectly, so the lighting fixture on the fan did not work. The dimmer controlled the speed of the fan, which from my experience was never a good idea as it would burn up the motor on the fan unless it was meant to be run by a dimmer.

 

[Michael74]

Yes, older homes are an adventure sometimes.

 

[JohnDB]

See,
There's this guy named "Bubba"...
And he only thinks he knows all about electricity...like it's all about positive wire and negative wires as in electronics.

"Black to black, white to white unless green is easier and whatever side of the plug or switch you wanna use whatever color is just fine. " Is his motto...

And he has been in every older home in America.

But codes are changing...and wiring is getting much more complicated than ever before. Florescent lights don't work in a bedroom in a new house unless you have a means of hiding them from the new arc fault breakers... because those breakers don't know the difference between an arc or a florescent light. (There's an arc in that glass tube)

 

[Explorer55]

I remember my Uncle's House had a, "hot" water supply line, lol. You could feel a slight electrical shock when taking showers, etc. I don't remember what he said the reason was but obviously something was out of whack with the electrical grounding or it being too near the water line underground or something. And he was no foreigner when it came to electricity either.

 

[Razeontherock]

What will happen if you do like what you wanted is that you will energize all the grounded water lines and items in your house by turning on your light.

Hey, that sounds like fun! Lol

Oprah: and YOU get a free perm, and YOU get a free perm - free perms for everybody!!

 

[Edward]

You know that new type of flexible gas line that they came out with a few years back? It's like an extra long flex connector like is used to hook up appliances like dryers and stoves, and it's usually covered with a yellow covering.

That stuff must be bonded to the water line to meet code requirements...but now 5hat it's been in the field for awhile, anomalies are starting to show up. Bonding the run of flexible gas line before the run, from the black iron pipe...May not be enough to ensure safety.

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, or why safety is still compromised...but there have been cases of fires within the homes. Something about pinholes in the ss gas line being generated over time. Eventually it leaks gas.

Improper bonding? Needs a bigger gauge bond wire? Bond both ends? Or...don't use the ss gas flex inside your home beyond the traditional length connectors for appliances? (6 ft)

I doubt that real answers for this will come from the establishment, there's just too much money in its use.

 

[Michael74]

Lightening seems to be the thing with flexible pipes. Its tough to ground against lightening, because of its wild voltage/amperage and unpredictable path. Newer lines are designed to resist lightening (black cover instead of yellow). Pipes are still the safest, but require a lot of labor to install compared to flexible. There are 75 year old pipes still getting the job done.

No one knows what kind of shape 75 year old flexible will be in. None has been around that long.

 

[Edward]

Lightning huh? Interesting.

Yes mamn, the lightning resistant pipe is more. Lol

 

[Michael74]

https://blog.nationwide.com/csst-safety/