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End-Time Prophecies in Daniel

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Brother, that makes no sense what so ever!


Please look at the scripture.

"Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

The 69th week ends with "Messiah the Prince".

You said - Messiah the Prince refers to the Messianic proclamation of the people when Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem, where they cried out Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him. This event is celebrated even to this day as "Palm Sunday". Hosanna is a Messianic term from psalms 118 that means "save now"! The priest's were angry with the people and asked Jesus to stop them because this was a reference to be made to YHWH.

Jesus said if these people don't praise me the stones will cry out.

This was the prophecy from Daniel being fulfilled and nothing in heaven or on earth was going to stop it from coming to pass!

Psalm 118:21-26

21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

This event marked the end of the 69th week!

Five days later, after the 69th week, Messiah was "cut off" on Passover.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;


JLB

First off I am a sister not a brother, but no big deal, but there is only one true Messiah and that is Christ Jesus. Messiah (Christ) was cut off when he hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice making all sacrifices cease at that time of the cross. To restore and rebuild Jerusalem was Spiritual as to make ready for coming Messiah (Christ).

This is just a snippet of my whole study on this subject as you can read the whole of it which explains more in detail if you go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ then you will see where I am coming from.
 
To restore and rebuild Jerusalem was Spiritual as to make ready for coming Messiah

Sorry, sister, but the rebuilding of the Temple as well as the city was a literal rebuilding after it was destroyed by the Babylonians!

24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself; 25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness; 26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah, 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places; 27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers'; 28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." ' Isaiah 44:24-28


1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-2


Literal rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem and the temple!



JLB
 
First off I am a sister not a brother, but no big deal, but there is only one true Messiah and that is Christ Jesus. Messiah (Christ) was cut off when he hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice making all sacrifices cease at that time of the cross. To restore and rebuild Jerusalem was Spiritual as to make ready for coming Messiah (Christ).

This is just a snippet of my whole study on this subject as you can read the whole of it which explains more in detail if you go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ then you will see where I am coming from.


as he was the final sacrifice
Totally agree!

making all sacrifices cease at that time of the cross.
This statement couldn't be further from the Truth!

The sacrifices did not cease!

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them. Acts 21:26


The temple continued to be used for sacrifices and offerings until it was destroyed in 70 AD!

Though these sacrifices were not acceptable to God, never the less they continued.

The point being, they did not cease when Jesus was sacrificed!


JLB
 
The offerings in Acts 21 were like Levitical offerings; they were not atoning sacrifices: Hebrews 9 and 10 makes it abundantly clear that at the Cross the Lord Jesus offered a finished, perfect sacrifice for sin.
 
The offerings in Acts 21 were like Levitical offerings; they were not atoning sacrifices: Hebrews 9 and 10 makes it abundantly clear that at the Cross the Lord Jesus offered a finished, perfect sacrifice for sin.


Hebrews 9 and 10 makes it abundantly clear that at the Cross the Lord Jesus offered a finished, perfect sacrifice for sin.
I couldn't agree more! You and I know that!

That, however does not stop unbelieving Jews from continuing to sacrifice animals in the temple.

How could anyone think that unbelieving Jews would stop utilizing a perfectly good temple after they had murdered the Son of God is beyond ridiculous!

What would stop them!

The only thing would be if the temple was destroyed!

Or, The Messiah came through the eastern gate and proclaimed Himself God!

They can't wait to build another one!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm


JLB
 
I Samie.
In response to your original post I must say that math.24:15 has nothing to do with Jesus' 2nd coming (his return) or a future 7 year tribulation. Would you please comment on Math.24:34 "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled".
Jesus clearly states that his contemporary generation (the generation he was speaking to) would see the abomination if desolation stand in the holy place as spoken by the prophet Daniel.
This is very plain, can you comment on this please.
 
I Samie.
In response to your original post I must say that math.24:15 has nothing to do with Jesus' 2nd coming (his return) or a future 7 year tribulation. Would you please comment on
Jesus clearly states that his contemporary generation (the generation he was speaking to) would see the abomination if desolation stand in the holy place as spoken by the prophet Daniel.
This is very plain, can you comment on this please.

I would like to reply if I may.

There is an alternative explaination to the above mentioned passage (Math.24:34 "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled".) than you are proposing.

It is mentioned in:

Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Since we all agree that the Jews still exist, then as long as one Jew remains alive until the second coming of Christ, this prophesy can still be valid to apply to a future time and is not tied to only the people that were alive at Jesus' time.

Also, since it also says in this same series of verses:

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

If you believe that this has happened, then you must accept that it happened 2000 years ago and that everyone in the world saw Christ's return.

I believe you are highly mistaken if you subscribe to this idea.

I would also like to commend the original poster for understanding that all the days listed in Daniel and Revelation are literal. I do disagree somewhat on his progression as shown by my own chart under the "Simple Chart of End Time Progression" located nearby in the threads, but at least he is on the right track.

However, I do not think that the people here will accept that the Messiah listed in Daniel is actually Michael, which corresponds with the many listings of the Mighty and Strong Angel in Revelation, and not Jesus, so it is doubtful if they will accept this. If any cling to the wrong interpretation the Daniel is speaking of Jesus, they will not be able to accept the literal translation of days listed in these books and must force these prophecies into a false and very convoluted explanation to make it fit, which is why these prophecies seem so confusing to many.
 
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Thank you Reba, I appreciate that.

One other thing I would like to add that goes hand in hand with this idea that Christ's return has already happened and that is by something else Christ said and I would also like to say something about that as well. It is found here:

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

This passage is often presented hand in hand with the afore mentioned passage in Mat 24:34.

This was fulfilled by John on the Isle of Patmos when he saw the Lord return in glory in his vision that he related to us in the Book of Revelation.

Something else must be said about this. Between these two sets of passages, it certainly seems that Christ believed his own return in Glory to be imminent. It is well documented that he began and preached throughout his ministry that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand as found in the Gospels in Mat 3:2, 4:17, 10:7, Mark 1:15. However, even Christ admitted that he did not know the exact time that this would occur as shown in the 13th Chapter of Mark. In this whole chapter Christ speaks of His return in answer to a private question asked of him by Peter, James, John and Andrew.

I am going to copy a lengthy passage out of the Bible, which I don't like to do, but please bear with me since it is important.

It begins here:

Mar 13:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any [man] deceive you:

Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and shall deceive many.

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for [such things] must needs be; but the end [shall] not [be] yet.

Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the beginnings of sorrows
.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

As we can see here, Christ is indicating that, even though the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand as He said previously, He acknowledges that some very traumatic events have to occur before His return.

He then goes on to say:

Mar 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house:

Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

Mar 13:19 For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

This is about as Apocalyptic as it gets. He mentions the Abomination of Desolation from the Book of Daniel, thus tying the writings of Daniel to an apocalypse that is yet to come and also gives some detail as to how this will affect the People of God during this time.

He then says something that is very important:

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Jesus here speaks of God as having already decreed the shortening of the days of this final (actually there will be one more 1000 years later) Apocalypse, but where did that come from?

The answer is simple, it comes straight from Daniel that Christ has just quoted from concerning the Abomination of Desolation, which as we know is from Daniel chapter 9.

In Daniel 9 is also held the part where God refers to the 70 Year tribulation that Daniel prays about to a future 70 week event that is yet to come. This is why Christ says that the days will be shortened, because the Apocalypse that occurred during Daniels time that was prophesied as lasting 70 years both in Jer 25:11-12 and 29:10 as well as earlier in Isa 23:15 is the pattern for the future final (?) Apocalypse and will be shortened during that time to 70 weeks. Of course if you take the seventy weeks of Daniel and lengthen them to 490 years as many have done, then you obliterate both the words of Christ and Daniel and make this passage 'confusing' to any who misinterpret it.

This is not my basic point here though.

Mar 13:24 ¶ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (see Rev 6:12 and Rev 8:12)

Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (see Rev 6:13)

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mar 13:28 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, [even] at the doors.

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Here again we see Christ saying that "this generation shall not pass, till all...", but now he goes a bit further and explains:

Mar 13:32 ¶ But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mar 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

The importance of this last part cannot be stressed enough.

Christ is telling us that while He knows that the time of the end is upon us, only God the Father knows the exact time and day it will occur and that not even He (Christ) is privy to that information.

If no other passage tells us that Jesus and God are separate beings, then this makes it clear. What people don't seem to understand is that they are joined in spirit as one, being linked together as one unit, while both retain their own separate identities. When you experience the Holy Spirit, this becomes understandable, because the infilling of the Holy Spirit makes you one with God and Christ is in this state always in it's most advanced form.

The point I am trying to make here is that Christ did perhaps seem to believe that the Apocalypse would be right away, but after His visit with God the Father as a man taking a far journey, He became more aware of events from Gods viewpoint and, since He already knew that a day to God is like a thousand years, because of God's immortality, things were not as quick to happen from a earthly viewpoint. While the Apocalypse was imminent from Gods perspective, mankind still had a while to go, because we had fulfilled something that was shown to us in the Book of Jonah.

Jonah was sent to Nineveh to preach that the Kingdom of God was at hand to a sinful people. We all know the story so I wont repeat it here, but at its end, God repented of his threat of immediate destruction because of the actions of the people and their king. As we know, Jonah was not happy at this because he felt it made him look like a fool and he was so mortified that he wanted to die. God then showed him, through the gourd, that, even though the destruction prophesied was to come upon them (and it did about 150 years later), they had bought themselves some time by repenting.

As we also know, Christ referred to himself as Jonah in Mat 12:4 and this is what has happened to us.

As the beggar Lazarus who died told Abraham in Luke 16:30, some would repent if one came back from the dead and this has happened in a spectacular way with the belief in Christ spreading over all the world. As a result, the destruction promised has been postponed by over 2000 years because of the work of Christ. However, since God knows everything, He made provision for this and set the scripture up to account for it in such a way that nothing was said or was done by Christ or the prophets that did not allow for this event, as I show in my End Time Chart in another thread.

Therefore, do not be deceived, the end is finally coming, the Apocalypse is soon (by our own reckoning of time) to fall upon us and none shall escape. Be certain though that some will be protected and only those who endure to the end will be ultimately saved.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jam 1:12 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
 
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Failure for those of understandings is mandatory in Daniel.

Anyone want to take a tumble?

Daniel 11:33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

IF you are called to be purged, to be made white, the the falling is MANdatory:

Daniel 11:35
And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

In the classic fashions of God, the path to understandings often run in the opposite directions of what we commonly think.

One does not 'normally' understand 'to fall' as a method of trial and purging to whiteness.

Yet here we all sit in that exact seat, most not even knowing they are therein seated, in A GOOD WAY.

We most often associate 'fall' with BAD. It is not so with God.

His Perfection is made Perfect in the WEAK.

I'll have NONE of me. Totally not worth it. ;)

s
 
Hmm, so if you have understanding, then you must fall to be purged?

Sorry, but just because all those of understanding will be attacked and some of them will not stand strong and fall, does not mean all will.
 
Hmm, so if you have understanding, then you must fall to be purged?

Sorry, but just because all those of understanding will be attacked and some of them will not stand strong and fall, does not mean all will.

Yes, it does gradually dawn on believers that the activity of evil factually originates within our own hearts. That is 'why' it is required to FALL in order to be purged or 'divided' from evil. We 'fall' from what we ourselves factually have within us.

In honesty we understand 'where' the real issues LIE. And we understand the frailty of our situation therein.

That is called weakness. And it is a condition of the enemy of our souls that we ourselves carry within, and TURN AWAY from.

If we don't even recognize what is being shown, then such remain blinded captives, unable to honestly look or even see this matter for example:

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


This is a fairly simple Christian fact.

s
 
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