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End Times Prophecies

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I have read your post in other thread re this same subject. I do not agree with you and see no benefit to bang heads with you on this subject. I am here to off opinions on scripture and read other peoples opinions on scripture, not debate amongst our selves. In another thread you pointed out that it is the Holy Spirit that must open peoples eyes to the truth, so if I am wrong in this instance and you are right it is his job to correct me, not yours.
I totally agree. If the Holy Spirit does not allow you to read John the Apostle's statement that the anti-Christ is in fact a spirit what can I say about that other than to point to the measure of John's words on the matter.

But the fact that it can not be seen is also what may be a mini-testament to that working power, at least as it pertains to reading abilities. We certainly can't be believing plain statements now can we? No sir.

enjoy!

s
 

JLB

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3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4


This scripture teaches us the man of sin is a "man".

This man will be revealed, ie; seen, manifested, be made known. Not invisible like a spirit!

A man can not "occupy" or "sit" or "stand" in another person.

Even if this "man of sin" was a spirit, a spirit could only occupy one person at a time.


This scripture teaches us that a flesh and blood "man" will sit in a natural temple, claiming to be God.

This man will be destroyed by Jesus Christ Himself when He returns.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


JLB
 

escapefate

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Perhaps a 3rd Temple being built is merely a consequence of the Jews wanting to do so very badly and at the same time this tribulation happens they acquire the means to do it.
 

John 8:32

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2 Thessalonians 2 NASB
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. [Emphasis added]
For the anticrhist to stand in the Temple of God, there will first have to be a Temple of God. This verse is not a metaphor or figurative. The sentence structure requires the verse to be taken literally.
That could happen in the church...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The church has and can again become apostate.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

He, the man of sin, could very well sit as head of the church. A type of which exists today...

Do you know what the title "Vicar of Christ" means? It means one in place of Christ. I do not think that is the fulfillment of the verse, but it is a type to show how it could occur.
 

Sinthesis

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That could happen in the church...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The church has and can again become apostate.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

He, the man of sin, could very well sit as head of the church. A type of which exists today...

Do you know what the title "Vicar of Christ" means? It means one in place of Christ. I do not think that is the fulfillment of the verse, but it is a type to show how it could occur.
What church? Christ's church? This cannot happen to the Body of Christ which we commonly refer to as the church. It can of course happen to earthly organizations which claim for themselves membership in the Body of Christ, yet drift into apostasy. However the bible is clear that it is best to lose an offending body part that causes one to sin, so any body members that become apostate are cut off to preserve the integrity of Christ's Body, of which He is the Head. Christ will not allow His Body to be corrupted by pretenders crying 'lord, lord'. This might not be obvious to us, but our perceptions are not perfect which is why Jesus is the Judge.

The definition of God's People is now spiritual, rather than a legal one which has always been open to perversion. At the time 2 Thessalonians was written, a legal definition dominated until the end times removed it.
 

John 8:32

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What church? Christ's church? This cannot happen to the Body of Christ which we commonly refer to as the church.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
Act 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

It did and will happen again.
 

Sinthesis

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Grievous wolves and perverse speakers have always challenged the Church. Yet the Body of Christ has never become apostate and never will. It either redeems its constituents or casts them out.
 
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10s3r

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Grievous wolves and perverse speakers have always challenged the Church. Yet the Body of Christ has never become apostate and never will. It either redeems its constituents or casts them out.
I'm actually disappointed that the church attributes the apostasy of 2Thes. 2 to itself. There's not one verse or reason to believe that the so called 'apostate church' would have anything to do with the revelation of the man of sin.
There's no such thing as "the apostate Church."
 
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10s3r

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What church? Christ's church? This cannot happen to the Body of Christ which we commonly refer to as the church.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
Act 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

It did and will happen again.
When false teachers and false prophets entered the early church they were easily identifiable. False teachers were often given a second chance but false prophets were immediately excommunicated. Many of these wolves (v.30) were just trying to draw people out of the church to start their own heretical church or 'religion.'
Their motive was money and notoriety.

Apostasy has nothing to do with the church and the Christianity is the only religion that has the incorrect understanding of the word.
 

Edward

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When false teachers and false prophets entered the early church they were easily identifiable.
When I first came to this board, it was very confusing for me because people were saying different things and made it sound plausible so it threw me for a loop. I continue to pray for wisdom and understanding, and read scriptures daily...and now it seems very much easier to sift through the chaff. Fruits of the spirit are easily identifiable for me now, and even when false prophets speak truth here and there, I can see it. It's amazing how the Holy Spirit gives us discernment in return for our diligence. Praise the Lord.
 

reba

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When I first came to this board, it was very confusing for me because people were saying different things and made it sound plausible so it threw me for a loop. I continue to pray for wisdom and understanding, and read scriptures daily...and now it seems very much easier to sift through the chaff. Fruits of the spirit are easily identifiable for me now, and even when false prophets speak truth here and there, I can see it. It's amazing how the Holy Spirit gives us discernment in return for our diligence. Praise the Lord.

Amen
 

Destructus86

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It's sad that so many Christians have become blinded and decieved by these so called end time prophets like Jack Van Impe and Hal Lindsey, just to name a few. People who shoe horn even the most vague news stories into a prophecy. Where is the Christian discernment to see these people for what they are? Are we so desperate for heaven that we ignore any guidance of the holy spirit for some false joy?
 

SeekHisFace

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When I first came to this board, it was very confusing for me because people were saying different things and made it sound plausible so it threw me for a loop. I continue to pray for wisdom and understanding, and read scriptures daily...and now it seems very much easier to sift through the chaff. Fruits of the spirit are easily identifiable for me now, and even when false prophets speak truth here and there, I can see it. It's amazing how the Holy Spirit gives us discernment in return for our diligence. Praise the Lord.

Amen
I agree also...Amen...also with Destructus86. I haven't learned how to put multiple quotes in a post, but someday I may learn, lol.

I would like to share that this passage is one that I had become frustrated with .. oh.. about 2years ago. I remember grieved over so many debating on different doctrines on this. I prayed about this and asked Him to tell me what verse 4. The Lord showed me a vision---and I don't have too many of those, and being brief, He showed me how we all were poisoned--there was a "porter", and when I cried out to the Lord, that porter surrounded me, coming towards me as I went thru it. . I didn't understand it right away, but right after I opened my Bible to John 10 and there I read about a porter. So, not too long after that He answered me about the verse 4
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

man of sin= = work of sin

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

the temple of God:

Whenever I turn on the TV I had only watched news or the weather channel...when I turned on the TV--that is all I did..I did not have the remote in my hand, and the tv changed channels to "Dr. Oz". I wondered what in the world just happened and there was Joel Osteen as a guest. They were showing a taped event of Joel speaking to millions in an arena type of place and he spoke...he said to the people 'anytime you want to feel better or need a pick me up (paraphrased), look at yourself in the mirror and say I am [and then he stalled] somebody, special and God loves me. '
But the fact that he stalled--- immediately the Lord reminded me of what I asked in prayer.

Jesus said He would tear down and rebuild the temple. I am sure that most of us know that we now are the temple of God. For sure I believe that there will be "someone" or "something" that will be indwelled by Satan himself in order to give us orders--and tell us to worship him/it because we can see it/him--something physical. But if we are led by the Holy Spirit, and know His Word, we will know and not be deceived.

I also, believe that in this particular passage is what we see...the work of sin dwelling inside of many--looking to "self", saying that they are god. That is being manifested before our eyes right now. And that is what the Lord showed me.

You can ask Him yourself. He is faithful to show you. I trust Him.

blessings...
 

Deborah13

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So I could sit here and keep my mouth shut and hide under a lampshade but.....

I believe this is what Joel Osteen was going to say if what he said was not what he was intending to say.

"...look in mirror and say, I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus."

Why do I think this? Well I don't watch him myself, he seems to be too soft or just not my cup of tea. BUT, I do know who he has been hanging out with some and he has probably read a couple of the same books I have.

This is a teaching from that person.
It goes more like this from when I heard and read it. "if you are having a hard time, especially with some sin, or feeling let down by someone, look in the mirror and remind yourself of who you are in Christ, say, I am...." 2 Corinth 5:21
The teaching is to always look to Jesus for the cure to all your problems. If you are having problems with some sin remember what Jesus has done for you (given His life) and who's family you are now in. You have been given the gift of righteousness....."

Joel chickened out, when someone states something like that it can be taken as a prideful statement and though it's not at all, in fact just the opposite, unless you are proud of being a sinner and then I suppose it wouldn't work very well.
It can be very uplifting if you are feeling down but if you've sinned it is very humbling.

So that's my taken on that. Oh by the way, the teaching is from Joseph Prince
 

SeekHisFace

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So I could sit here and keep my mouth shut and hide under a lampshade but.....

I believe this is what Joel Osteen was going to say if what he said was not what he was intending to say.

"...look in mirror and say, I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus."

Why do I think this? Well I don't watch him myself, he seems to be too soft or just not my cup of tea. BUT, I do know who he has been hanging out with some and he has probably read a couple of the same books I have.

This is a teaching from that person.
It goes more like this from when I heard and read it. "if you are having a hard time, especially with some sin, or feeling let down by someone, look in the mirror and remind yourself of who you are in Christ, say, I am...." 2 Corinth 5:21
The teaching is to always look to Jesus for the cure to all your problems. If you are having problems with some sin remember what Jesus has done for you (given His life) and who's family you are now in. You have been given the gift of righteousness....."

Joel chickened out, when someone states something like that it can be taken as a prideful statement and though it's not at all, in fact just the opposite, unless you are proud of being a sinner and then I suppose it wouldn't work very well.
It can be very uplifting if you are feeling down but if you've sinned it is very humbling.

So that's my taken on that. Oh by the way, the teaching is from Joseph Prince
I don't watch him either. In fact, I don't watch anyone anymore.
But the point of sharing was to point out what the Lord showed me. not what anyone else thought Joel was trying to say.
There was a "stall" after the words of "I am" and at that stall is when the Holy Spirit spoke and showed me what He wanted to show me.

And after He showed me about the "I am"...then I learned that this new age change over for this new world... that they will require for all to be initiated into it and the lowest level to get into it is the "I am" spirit. The rest will be eliminated. Well...I don't want their new world. There is only one great I am...and it is not here in the world. Amen.

Thank you for sharing Deb...:wave

Blessing to you all and may we all be led by His Spirit...
 

Deborah13

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But the point of sharing was to point out what the Lord showed me. not what anyone else thought Joel was trying to say.
There was a "stall" after the words of "I am" and at that stall is when the Holy Spirit spoke and showed me what He wanted to show me.
I understand and agree that the "I am" is becoming more prevalent throughout the world in the way mankind in general has put "me" first. It has always been the problem from the start, to do what we want to do rather than what pleases God. The pride of life no matter what form it takes.

I took the opportunity to share the teaching because I think it is a good one if used as taught. But some will take it wrong so it is not one I would normally share.

I hope you will keep on sharing with us.

Blessing to you as well.
 

Grappler

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SO in another thread I mentioned that the temple has to be rebuilt before Jesus comes again and no one seems to know what I'm talking about or else tells me that it is us or happened in 70 AD.

That's not what I was talking about. I thought it was in Revelation but after digging around a little I see that only a part of it is. REVELATION 11:1,2; 2ND THESSALONIANS 2:3,4 is where it's really at. (I haven't been reading this lately and am very forgetful)

The scripture about Israel signing a peace treaty for 7 years is not in Revelation either, but rather Daniel 9:27
Yes i agree that a temple will be rebuilt. It will be an abomination in the sight of God as well...it won't be God's temple but a temple built for the god of the Jews....:)
 
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J

Joe Domingo

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If you want to come to a good and solid understanding of scripture and end time prophecies...

Study the Law. Study the Feast Days. Then work your way into the Prophets. After a while - Revelation will make perfect sense to you.

The major reason why most preachers today don't get it - is because they have turned their blinders on to the Law.
 

John 8:32

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If you want to come to a good and solid understanding of scripture and end time prophecies...

Study the Law. Study the Feast Days. Then work your way into the Prophets. After a while - Revelation will make perfect sense to you.

The major reason why most preachers today don't get it - is because they have turned their blinders on to the Law.
Just a note about the Feast Days...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 

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