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Endure

for_his_glory

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The Disciples who sat with Jesus on the Mt. of Olives in Matthew 24:3 asked Him three questions, when shall these things be, what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? These three questions are now revealed to us as the Spirit of God has revealed them to John who told him to write these revelation visions down and give them to the Church for instruction and understanding. Matthew 24 is an outline of all things that will come to pass that is revealed in full in Revelations before that of Christ return for His Bride on the last day, John 5:28, 29; 6:40. Those events are called the great and terrible day of the Lord.

There was a question asked in Revelation 6:17 about the great day of His wrath is come and who shall be able to stand? Part of this question is answered in Nahum Chapter One for one example as there are many scriptures detailing Gods great vengeance against His enemies and His mercy on those who are called by His name having the seal of God on them, Ephesians 4:30. Matthew 24 gives us an outline and Revelations gives us the meaning of the outline.

Many teach that the Church will be Raptured out of here before Gods wrath (tribulation), but according to these scriptures the body of Christ who are still alive at Christ coming will be here on earth during the time of the greatest tribulation this world has ever seen nor will ever see again, Matthew 24:21.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about the beast out of the sea that gives power to the beast out of the earth as we are warned to not take its mark

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. If Christ returns in pretrib rapture then at that time the door of Salvation will be closed.

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation as mystery Babylon has been described and destroyed as we have not yet been caught up to be with the Lord until the last day.

Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring through Gods mighty wrath and refusing the mark of the beast

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured all things before the coming of the Lord.
 
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for most of Christian history, it seems that pre-tribulation was not even on the table. at all. then, it started gaining traction in the 19th century, now its a major (the major?) position in American Protestantism. -sigh-

I don't have a firm opinion, at this point, although I lean towards...the world is going to get very "interesting," and the church is going to have to deal with it, at least for a season. Even in the secular realm, it seems like every now and then people get Apocalypse-fever...movies about the end of the time, post-apocalyptic novels, etc. what's strange, now is...the world is warming up, the world economy seems to be on shaky ground, and wars and various epidemics, disasters, etc. are just a part of daily life, and...

life just keeps going on, day by day. lines up with Scripture (Matthew 24:38), but it can be a bit unnerving to me, at times.

good post, fhg. :)
 
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for_his_glory

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Hollywood does love the monetary gain off of those things that others make up in their own mind that are so far away from the truths found in the scriptures. Jesus already told us those things which must come first before His return. They are not to scare us, but to prepare us as we are already sealed until the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, when Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations in this world casting them into the lake of fire, Rev 19:11-21. This will be the greatest time of faith in Christ and giving full trust in Him as God will meet our needs during His great wrath being poured out into a sinful world.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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excellent Scripture selections. :)

sometimes, when I hear people who are -really- into pretribulation material get started, i wonder: what's really driving this belief? not to sound too, too critical--I can see Scripture supporting some of their arguments, I really can--but I sometimes think its more about escapism. and then...

I think about my own inclination to lean towards the RCC, then old school Presbyterians on other issues...and it becomes increasingly clear to me that Jesus warned us about leaning on traditions vs God in Mark 7:8 for a number of vital reasons...

and He didn't single out any 1 man-made tradition, either. I suspect that Pentecostals can be just as bad as the RCC at times who sometimes pale in comparison to some Calvinists, and...on and on.

so there you go. thought I'd share my own "stuff" because I ran across a number of references to 2 Corinthians 13:5 today, so it seemed appropriate. :)
 

Who Me

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I've never understood any of this. Jesus said 'No one knows the day or the hour I return, except the Father.!'

To me it is automatic that any calculation of 'when', no matter how vague is automaticly wrong.
Yes warnings about our falling standards etc areimportant, but I start and finish on one point.

'Jesus is coming again.'
 

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Jesus also said He would come at an hour we would not expect Him. The Lord gave us some signs we should be aware of, but also warned He would return at a time we would not expect. A good reason to live every day as if it were our last. We don't know when our personal last day will be.
We have to endure with the battle every hour. That's not easy.
 
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what kind of frightens me a bit or at least...unnerves me, I should say....is how Scripture indicates everything will be going along as usual, more or less, when Jesus comes back. Marriage, funerals, works, everything more or less normal(ish), and then...The Savior returns, apparently to find few people ready for Him....

The Parable of the wedding feast comes to mind...that and the virgins, with the silly, unprepared ones who find themselves in darkness vs the prepared ones...

-shudder- I'm also reminded of David Wilkerson (hey, I love Pentecostals) writing extensively on visions He received in which The Last Days would see apostasy within the church and then straight up persecution of the redeemed within the church, too...

leaving The Faithful Remnant, from across all denominations (if I recall, Wilkerson went on to specifically -include- RCC-ers) finding each other outside of the established church system. given how crazy things are here where I live (The Bible Belt, USA), I"m kinda seeing a lot of wisdom in the material Wilkerson wrote in the 70s or so.
 

for_his_glory

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I've never understood any of this. Jesus said 'No one knows the day or the hour I return, except the Father.!'

To me it is automatic that any calculation of 'when', no matter how vague is automaticly wrong.
Yes warnings about our falling standards etc areimportant, but I start and finish on one point.

'Jesus is coming again.'
Hi Who Me and welcome to CF :wave2

You are right as many pass over that verse as they imagine their own timeline in their mind and get paid big bucks for it as they speculate the return of Christ. It is also made very clear in Matthew 24:29-31 what we are to look for as we prepare ourselves ahead of time to be gathered to Him.
 

for_his_glory

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what kind of frightens me a bit or at least...unnerves me, I should say....is how Scripture indicates everything will be going along as usual, more or less, when Jesus comes back. Marriage, funerals, works, everything more or less normal(ish), and then...The Savior returns, apparently to find few people ready for Him....

The Parable of the wedding feast comes to mind...that and the virgins, with the silly, unprepared ones who find themselves in darkness vs the prepared ones...

-shudder- I'm also reminded of David Wilkerson (hey, I love Pentecostals) writing extensively on visions He received in which The Last Days would see apostasy within the church and then straight up persecution of the redeemed within the church, too...

leaving The Faithful Remnant, from across all denominations (if I recall, Wilkerson went on to specifically -include- RCC-ers) finding each other outside of the established church system. given how crazy things are here where I live (The Bible Belt, USA), I"m kinda seeing a lot of wisdom in the material Wilkerson wrote in the 70s or so.
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 

John Prewett

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Paul wrote about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.
In Matt 24, Jesus is speaking about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.

In some ways our end of era scenario is similar to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

In other ways our end of era scenario is very different to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

To understand OUR end of era scenario one must study-believe the God sent Revelation.

Revelation 13->forward reveals soul saving blessing conveying information about our end of era scenario found nowhere else.
 

for_his_glory

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Paul wrote about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.
In Matt 24, Jesus is speaking about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.

In some ways our end of era scenario is similar to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

In other ways our end of era scenario is very different to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

To understand OUR end of era scenario one must study-believe the God sent Revelation.

Revelation 13->forward reveals soul saving blessing conveying information about our end of era scenario found nowhere else.
Revelations is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned in the scriptures as not all nations existed back then. Not all of Israel is Gods chosen people as it is only those by faith and have endured are those on this side of the cross who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31. This is why our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.

There is only one end of days and that comes on the last day when Christ returns and destroys all that is an abomination to God, Rev 19:11-21. There are certain chronological era's of history that no longer exist, but yet those (Israel and the Gentiles grafted into the branch) of faith, past and present that have been sealed by God will exist until Christ returns and gathers them to Him.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times, but still stands today as it was when Joshua succeeded Moses and led the people into the promised land.
 

JLB

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I've never understood any of this. Jesus said 'No one knows the day or the hour I return, except the Father.!'

To me it is automatic that any calculation of 'when', no matter how vague is automaticly wrong.
Yes warnings about our falling standards etc areimportant, but I start and finish on one point.

'Jesus is coming again.'

Amen. Jesus is coming again.


However, the Lord will not come as a thief in the night for the Church, because He left us the signs of His coming.


So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Matthew 24:33




JLB
 

JLB

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Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Amen.

Key word here is “they”.


Noah knew what was up, which is why he moved with godly fear to obey what God had foretold was coming.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



JLB
 

JLB

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Paul wrote about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.
In Matt 24, Jesus is speaking about the end time scenario of ANCIENT ISRAEL.

In some ways our end of era scenario is similar to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

In other ways our end of era scenario is very different to the 2000 year ago end time scenario of Ancient Israel.

To understand OUR end of era scenario one must study-believe the God sent Revelation.

Revelation 13->forward reveals soul saving blessing conveying information about our end of era scenario found nowhere else.

Also, studying and believing what Paul wrote to the Church, about the coming of the Lord concern the resurrection and rapture, and destruction of the wicked is very informative.




JLB
 

John Prewett

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Revelation 15 reveals the saved of our era gathered and safe with Jesus.
Revelation 19 reveals the saved of our era will follow Christ back to this earth.
 

JLB

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Revelation 15 reveals the saved of our era gathered and safe with Jesus.
Revelation 19 reveals the saved of our era will follow Christ back to this earth.

Welcome to the Forum John.

Glad to have you.


JLB
 

JLB

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Revelation 15 reveals the saved of our era gathered and safe with Jesus.
Revelation 19 reveals the saved of our era will follow Christ back to this earth.

1 Thessalonians 4 reveals when we will be gathered and safe with the Lord... at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18



JLB
 

for_his_glory

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Amen.

Key word here is “they”.


Noah knew what was up, which is why he moved with godly fear to obey what God had foretold was coming.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



JLB
Just as God told Noah that which was coming, Jesus has already told us that which must come first before He returns that we must endure through trials and much tribulation. God never said our lives here on earth would be a bed of roses.
 

for_his_glory

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1 Thessalonians 4 reveals when we will be gathered and safe with the Lord... at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18



JLB
I would also like to add to what you have given.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

JLB

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Just as God told Noah that which was coming, Jesus has already told us that which must come first before He returns that we must endure through trials and much tribulation. God never said our lives here on earth would be a bed of roses.

Amen.

Well said.



JLB
 

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