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Bible Study Errors of a cult (SDA)

Is the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST "church" a cult?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
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G

Gary

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Cult??

What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach?

Affirmations
  • The Bible is inspired and the word of God.
    Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons.
    Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father.
    The Holy Spirit is a person.
    Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious.
    Salvation is by grace, not works.
    Jesus rose from the dead physically in his glorified body.
    Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.
    Baptism is by immersion
    The literal, visible return of Jesus.
    Jesus will return to set up a millennial kingdom. They are Premillennial.
    Literal six day creation, not long periods.

Denials
  • Denies the doctrine of predestination
    Denies baptism by sprinkling
    Denies infant baptism.
    Denies the immortality of the soul.
    Denies the eternality of hell fire.
    Denies any use of alcohol (as a drink) or tobacco.

Aberrant
  • Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    The wicked are annihilated.
    Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.

Source: http://www.carm.org/sda/teachings.htm
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
Re: Cult??

Gary_Bee said:
What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach?

Affirmations
  • The Bible is inspired and the word of God.
    Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons.
    Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father.
    The Holy Spirit is a person.
    Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious.
    Salvation is by grace, not works.
    Jesus rose from the dead physically in his glorified body.
    Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.
    Baptism is by immersion
    The literal, visible return of Jesus.
    Jesus will return to set up a millennial kingdom. They are Premillennial.
    Literal six day creation, not long periods.

Denials
  • Denies the doctrine of predestination
    Denies baptism by sprinkling
    Denies infant baptism.
    Denies the immortality of the soul.
    Denies the eternality of hell fire.
    Denies any use of alcohol (as a drink) or tobacco.

Aberrant
  • Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    The wicked are annihilated.
    Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.

Source: http://www.carm.org/sda/teachings.htm
********
Sounds like you are finally getting it RIGHT! At least some of it. :wink: The source? :robot: Well, that most likely is a differant Gen. 4:7 matter :roll: .

Now for what a cult is, or the REAL CULT ANTICHRIST! Read my next missive. There is a differance between a false prophet & a TRUE ANTICHRIST CULT. But, [NEVER BE MISTAKEN], CHRIST STILL HAS HIS DECEIVED ONED STILL INSIDE THESE ONES!! Rev. 18:4 & John 10:16.
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
The TRUE ANTICHRIST CULT must have complete authority!! Notice his DOCUMENTED work. "All dogmatic decrees of [the Pope], made with or without his general council, ARE INFALLIBLE ... Once made, no pope or council can reverse them ... This IS THE CATHOLIC PRINCIPLE, that the CHURCH CANNOT ERR IN FAITH." --The Catholic World, pgs. 422-423.

OK: That is the first [TOP] priority. 's'atan has himself in charge of a number one human man! See Gen. 4:7's start & Rev. 3:9's ending. This is & ever was satan's antichrist denomination. (and who took over when Christ left Israel of old? See Matt. 23:38 when they BECAME DESOLATE OF CHRIST)

Number two: A CULT ANTICHRIST must have a 'SECOND' book held in high esteem that is opposite to the Bible! In this time frame, It IS THE 'CATECISM'! It even openly changes the Commandments of God! [ANTICHRIST!] See 1 Jn. 2:4 & Isa. 8:20.

Number three: Surely it MUST HAVE A LARGE BROADWAY WORLDWIDE CULT MEMBERSHIP! See Matt. 7 & Rev. 17:5!! To have DAUGHTERS this denomination was here FIRST, huh? Again, the TRUE LEADER of even the Pope, was seen working before the flood in Cain! (Gen. 4:7) Notice whose his 'DESIRE' now was!
A denomination has always been found by satan to 'FORM-or have them become a FOLD' that would do this [FIRST CULT LEADER'S WORK]. See Rev. 2:5. (well, who would now take over!?)

Cain killed his brother. Cain was still a proffesor of worship! He brought an ANTICHRIST SACRIFICE! As does Rome in having Sun. for God's eternal Sabbath Day Covenant! (see Heb. 13:20) Rome, also is and was a MURDERER (from the beginning) as is DOCUMENTTED in Fox Book of Martyr's. It states that is MIGHT EVEN BE A LOW ESTAMENT, OF UPWARD TO AN HUNDRED MILLION KILLED BY ROME, OF CHRISTIAN MARTYRS!!

Take note: This is satan's church! Look around you today! These LEADERS ARE [OPEN PARTAKERS] of ALL OF THIS EVIL! See Rev. 18:4!And in a quote that I posted a couple days ago about the Pope John Paul 11 suggesting that voodoo believers would not betray their traditional faith by 'converting to Christianity'. ('From the LosAngeles Times' 2/5/93)

CHRISTIANS?? Hardly can a person be [HONEST] calling an CULT ANTICHRIST denomination [CHRISTIAN!] And the Lord's CALL is for the [IGNORANT BABES IN CHRIST THAT HE HAS THERE, TO LEAVE]. Again SEE John 10:16!!

And NOW: We see satan still doing his evil work in suggesting that there is another antichrist?? Wow! what is new, God say's NOTHING!! See Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15. Yet, these ones ARE THE CULT LEADERS 'little' daughter's that are DOING the work of mommie. What is next?? Soon ex/prostants will do the dirty work of having Caesar do what they can not do OPENLY. Kill their brothers!

Yet: ALL are missing the truth here! The Adventist denomination has gone the way of Israel of old before Christ comes the second time!! See Rev. 12:17!! They TOO have called the Great Whore & her Daughters Christian denominations! And they, as were Israel of old, to be JUDGED FIRST! See 1 Peter 4:17. ALL other's testing will be that of 666 & that is also just around the corner!

---John
 
E

evanman

Guest
The prophet Daniel predicted that Knowledge would increase right up to the time of the end. (Da 12:4)

We have seen the increase in knowledge, especially in the last one hundred years. However with the increase in knowledge that mankind has in the sciences, technology, medicine, there has come an amazing lack of knowledge of the Lord and His ways.
 

Vic C.

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A definition of cult used by some christians and by myself sometimes is: A group that teaches salvation by works. or something to that effect.
And the baptist chuch(ugh) is the most popular cult where I live.
evanman, you're just looking for a reason to call the SDA a cult. I could easily find more reasons that the baptist churches are a cult. Stop being ignorant.
It's statements like this that cause you to sound like you have NO idea what you are talking about. But we know better...don't we?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John said:
Now for another remark by another poster, that Christ did not have brothers.
It seems that this statement from E.G.W. that He had brothers was reason to toss her out as a false prophet as was just done to one of the three 'Gospels' writters above, perhaps?
John, this is what Evanman actually said and your response to it. It is a direct reply to Ellen's statement that Jesus had OLDER sibblings, not NO sibblings, as you thought he said. Read it and then tell me who is having a hard time reading right.

evanman wrote:
Jesus had NO older brothers, He was the firstborn!...

...We may find spelling mistakes, mistakes of grammar, not a problem. But to make such errors concerning the Inspired Word of god--that is intolerable--especially when she states quite plainly that everything she wrote was God's Word through her!


Now for your response to it.

"Some people have a hard time reading right. But then, even the Word 'God' should be capitalised as far as most think, anything else IS intolerable! Unless it is another of Gen. 4:7's desiree's. It seems that I have run into 'your work' over on a locked thread? Perhaps this thread is the next to go?
Regardless: Christ had half brothers.
~~~~~
No, no no! She did not say half-brothers, she said older brothers! There's a difference.

John said:
Hi again ,
I never did hear what the definition of what a cult was?? But it must be by far the worse than the CAPS of Rev. 17:5's Mother & Daughters, huh?
OK sir, we get the point. You do not like the RCC. Fine. 8) And this is for all of you who haven't seen this yet or chose to ignore it when I posted it two previous times....

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... cult#34836

THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A CULT
http://www.dtl.org/cults/misc/characteristics.htm

Theological Characteristics:

  • 1. Devaluation of the Bible.

    2. Devaluation of the nature of God.

    3. Denial of the Trinity.

    4. Devaluation of the Person of Christ.

    5. Devaluation of the life and work of Christ.

    6. Non-biblical teachings about the Holy Spirit.

    7. Exalted view of human nature.

    8. False basis of salvation.

    9. Non-biblical teachings about the after-life.

    10. Demonic activity denied or overemphasized.
Sociological Characteristics:

  • 1. Deceptive recruiting practices.

    2. Dynamic and authoritarian leadership.

    3. Elitism.

    4. Cultic vocabulary.

    5. Alienation from family and friends.

    6. Legalism.

    7. Induced fatigue.

    8. Sanction oriented.

    9. Anti-intellectual.

    10. Thought stopping.

    11. No professional clergy.

    12. Doctrine in flux/ false prophesies.

    13. Financial exploitation.

    14. Mind control.
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
---More of the devil's double standard---

Yes, I will stand pat with the conviction that God has given me! Rom. 8:1
----

John here:
What standard are we usng to through out truth with? The Bible clearly has 'erring ones' being used!! If one will believe it!

Matt. 9:28 States:
"And when He was come to the other side into the country of Gergesenes, there met Him [two] possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs,.." read on to verse 32! (Unclean Swine, Vic :wink:)

Mark 5:1-2 states the same occasion, yet differntly! Notice verse 2, .. ".. immediately there met [a man] with an unclean spirit,.." Surely, read verses 1-6 Notice verse 6 uses 'he' & not they.

Now, which is not TRUTH by your testing of E.G. White's seemingly few conterdictions? Come on now and answer the question that you seem to 'block' out of your response.

One has to go! Which one?? Over in Luke the reporting is again found in chapter 8:26-30. Here, 'inspiration' uses even different [WORDS]!
"..a certain man' & 'he was bound with..'

I wonder how long a person who is a Christian [in the time of 'refreshing'] (Acts 3:19) can continue on being Christian, when there is no 'retraction' of error seen? (Me or you, see Acts 5 Ananias and wife) Also Matt. 25 'Closed Door'.

And the different translations used?? All different, huh! Can you be consistent with all of the above? Then, why not with E.G.W.? I think that you know the answer to that question.
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
--Re/examining a couple past thoughts of mine!--

Yes, I will still stand on the Bibles teaching of 2 Tim. 3:16 & Matt. 4:4!
*********

John here:
Vic, I do not agree that you do not teach anything! How blind can one be??? What are you saying about the Bible??? Vic, it has been written, checked & re/checked, with verse numbers, periods, comas, chapter numbers, titles, spelling, and chapters headings, & on & on!!
What [one] addition do you use???

Do you miss my point COMPLETELY?? Unless there was a different motive? (as seen in 2 Cor. 4:2) I am beginning to wonder Vic? You are telling [me] that [my posting remark] was in error, what was wrong with my defending that one thought!

What I am, & was saying is that if you go back over my postings, (all of them) you will find words mis/spelled, left out & even repeated words at times!! But not you huh? Because that would make you a 'cult' poster????? (And what about yours Vic?)

NOW:
Yet, NEVER will 'anyone' not understand the BOTTOM LINE MESSAGE of my total postings, when 'most' of the messages have been read. Unless a person is a dumb dumb, or OTHER MOTIVES are there?

Case in point: Back in 1844 therebouts, there was & still is a 7th day Church of God that rejected E.G. White's writtings. They number 100.000
in membership compared to Adventist membership of over 11.000.000.
(these are not total up to date numbers-so don't call me a false teacher, ok. )

Ask yourself:
If E.G. White was a 'messenger' sent of God, would she not know & have recorded Adventist's ENDING APOSTASY? Now, if so, would she still at that point of time be popular?? THINK! At first her [messages] caused hudge numbers to leave. (the whole of the 'now' 7th day church of God for one) All the rest 'mostly' accepted 'some' of God work. (you do believe in the SPIRITS gifts, right?) And as time goes on, what happened in all church denominations? See again the Eccl. verses! Even in the FIRST CHURCH two 'liars' were killed by the Spirit of God. Acts 5.

But we are considering just Adventism & the Messages given to E.G.W.
In these messages there are [seen] Adventism from start to FINISH! Now, I ask you again, would Adventism of today want to keep these 'messages' about their OPEN APOSTASY in their memberships thinking??

Again: The reason Armstrong's Church of God split was no differant than that of Adventism's split! There was Hatred for Truth, INSIDE WORK from someone beside Christ! See Rev. 3:9's Broadway & Narrow Path dropoffs!!

Now, for the REAL HATRED of the ex/adventist message! All ex/3 angel messages of Rev. 14:6-10 is an Yoked in membership Denomination! and the now synagogue of Rev. 3:9, with the re/cruifing of Christ & putting Him to an open shame along with [HIS] 3 angels message! Heb. 6:6's. Are these ones any better than Babylon? HARDLY! See Luke 12:47-48.

You see Vic, it has [NOTHING] to do with E.G. White! But EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE MASTER'S TRUTH THAT sATAN'S BROADWAY ONES HATE!
NO? Well, lets just close out with this 'Truth' then, and note that it was written years ago, and is it Truth for today or not??? And will one get a two view reply back? Surely! Now, which ones are right though?

"I saw that since Jesus had left the Holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, and had entered within the second vail, the [churches were left as were the Jews,] and they have been filling up with [every unclean and hateful bird.] I saw great iniquity and vileness [in the churches; yet they profess to be christians.]" Spiritual Gifts 1-2 pg. 190 in part & with my emphasis.

One last thought Vic:
Just as surely as Paul did not make shipwreck of his work when the Gospel DID GO to the ENDS of the World as it is stated and 'inspired' in Rom. 10:18, because of Christ INSPIRED TRUTH of Matt. 24:14 that it would, so to Vic, do we NEED TO BELIEVE THE ECCL. VERSES of chapter 1:9-10 & chapter 3:15! Each time of Christ's day, 1844, and in our day, we see a Matt. 25 [Closed Door] with Christ's [OWN] being called OUT! There is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN HE STATES! John 10:16, Eph. 4:5 & Rev. 18:4!! Each time period there was a special 'showers' of 'refreshing' time Truth! Joel & Acts 2 & see Peter's Truth again stated in Acts 3:19! To reject in this in/lightened period is fatal!

---John

PS: Just a last question Vic. When there is the Sunday enforcement law put into force, what side do we find you supporting even now??? See Hosea 4:6. I wonder which 'inspired' writter had it right in what some call the four Gospels, as they [all] project the same truth of Christ's death burial & resurection somewhat differently! Were they getting true inspiration from God?
_________________
Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 for our provisions on earth, thank you Master!
 

Featherbop

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Messages
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Vic said:
A definition of cult used by some christians and by myself sometimes is: A group that teaches salvation by works. or something to that effect.
[quote:481b3]And the baptist chuch(ugh) is the most popular cult where I live.
evanman, you're just looking for a reason to call the SDA a cult. I could easily find more reasons that the baptist churches are a cult. Stop being ignorant.
[/quote:481b3]
It's statements like this that cause you to sound like you have NO idea what you are talking about. But we know better...don't we?

No, you don't.
 

Vic C.

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Featherbop,
Start another thread, telling us why you think Baptist is a cult. We'd LOVE to hear this!

John, what in the world are you talking about? That doesn't even come close to the questin I was raising. So, I will ask in very simlpe terms...
Where in THIS topic did ANYONE say that Jesus DID NOT have any brothers? :-?
 

Featherbop

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Messages
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Featherbop, Start another thread, telling us why you think the Baptist is a cult. We'd LOVE to hear this!
Until someone can say how SDA is a cult, I will refrain from doing so. The bashing of the SDAs needs to either stop or be given a good reason to do so. The SDA church could not even be called a cult when compared to the Baptists around my area. Everyone interprets the Bible their own way. Some are more correct than others. However, you can't expect the "good guys" to win, when they are so grossly outnumbered. Most people don't know anything of the SDAs or anything. Some people in my own family don't like the SDA church, They think its wierd, or a cult, or evil. Friends that used to know were the same way. They are ignorant, just as all people against the SDA seem to be. They haven't ever gone to the sda churches, talked to us about what we believe, be rational, they mindlessly use the word cult, this is just how truth is treated, with dislike and sometimes hate. They just throw around the word, just to be saying it. After talking to christians of different denomanations, I'm starting to like the atheists! Anyway, sorry for the long vent, and maybe I will make that topic sometime, maybe this weekend, only time I have lots free time.

_____

Some of you have maybe had bad experainces with the sda church. I don't know. But to call them as a majority(or even a large part of them) a cult is uncalled for and foundationless. Some of you seem to be targeting ellen white. but one does not have to believe her to be SDA. I'm sure there are some SDA churches that don't. I am undecided on her at the moment.

Seriously, Have any of you been to a SDA church several times, or even once? Have you done any non-internet research? Have you talked with SDAs you know personally without calling them a cult member or something? Have you discussed beliefs with them? Do you know facts about them or just stuff you've heard and been brainwashed to say?

*sigh*
 
E

evanman

Guest
John here:
What standard are we usng to through out truth with? The Bible clearly has 'erring ones' being used!! If one will believe it!

Matt. 9:28 States:
"And when He was come to the other side into the country of Gergesenes, there met Him [two] possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs,.." read on to verse 32! (Unclean Swine, Vic )

Mark 5:1-2 states the same occasion, yet differntly! Notice verse 2, .. ".. immediately there met [a man] with an unclean spirit,.." Surely, read verses 1-6 Notice verse 6 uses 'he' & not they.
Can I ask upon what basis you presume that Matthew and Mark are speaking of the same situation?

If you compare the two incidents, and the events surrounding them, you will see that what we have are similar incidents, but not the same incident.
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
Hay there, Good morning! :fadein:
I have got to run for now, plenty of 6 day labor 'labor' to do. But just a thought before I go.

Here is a post from a person (maybe Vic, who knows for sure, huh? :fadein:) that read something that I posted up yesterday on another forum. I will post it up below! You might have read the same post here?

Anyway: My thought this morning, is that we CANNOT READ clearly! How can we see truth unless one starts to read what is [R-E-A-L-L-Y] said? And then too, add all of yesterdays REPEATED remarks TOGETHER WITH THIS!

Who wrote the BIBLE? SEE & STUDY 2 Peter 1:19-21. See Rom. 2:14-15!
Now: Who proofed the mis/spelled Words?? And ADDED [[[ALL]]] the other NON-INSPIRED numbers, chapter headings, seperation of books, comas, and the oooodles of translations! This IS WHY WE NEED MATT. 4:4 & 2 Tim. 3:16!!!

And then, as you JUDGE 'others' by [your ALSO non/inspired evil tactics], so WILL YOU BE JUDGED! :sad

----------Zathrus wrote:
Pastor N.B, is that why you are not an Adventist? Because the SDA church considers people in other religious organizations such as Lutherans, Prespyterians, Assemblies of God, etc. fellow Christians?


********
Is that what I said??? Christ calls the ones that you speak of, OUT OF THEM OR RECEIVE OF HIS PLAGUES! Rev. 18:4. Would Christ be VIRGIN CHRIST if He did not do that???????? (if they had died before this time period, not being convicted of this, while still yet living the best of their knowledge, what more could be asked of them? Rom. 8:1)

Who is the LEADER of these [DENOMINATIONS] is the question?? Read Rev. 18:4. OK: again in Christ's day, in John 10:16 we see HIS SHEEP in the wrong [FOLD,] (denomination) but what ABOUT THE FOLD? Was Christ [THERE]?? Hardly, there are stacks of verses for that one! See Josh. 7:12's last part of verse for the answer. Or Isa. 59:2.

About your question. This is the Heb. 6:6 crucifying of the Rev. 14:6-10 3 Angels message. But the ACTUAL RE/CRUCIFYING of CHRIST came in another HEAVEN RECORDED OPEN AS SUNLIGHT BOOK OF RECORDED DEED'S in the year 1990.

The answer to your question comes in Matt. 23:2. The denomination as a 'whole' has a new leader, as did Israel of old as seen in Matt. 23:38! And the DOCTRINES? There is NOTHING wrong with the VIRGIN DOCTRINES. Even their ex/prophetess tells them of their rejection!
But, once AGAIN it is 'CHRIST' that has been REJECT, not only His 3 last messages to the world!! (do you think that Rev. 17:5 are an Christian *One Who Practices the World's Oldest Profession* & DAUGHTER in Caps, as seen there??)

In the Master's QUICKLY FINISHED work, Pastor N.B.
1 Peter 4:7
_________________
"I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGHT CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH ME" Phil. 4:13

"MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE, FOR MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS" 2 Cor. 12:9

I believe His Word! Pastor N.B. (John)
 

Vic C.

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Until someone can say how SDA is a cult, I will refrain from doing so. The bashing of the SDAs needs to either stop or be given a good reason to do so. The SDA church could not even be called a cult when compared to the Baptists around my area.
If you followed this debate, you woild have seen that it's topic has shifted from the SDA to Ellen G. White. Some here even believe the two are not synonymous. It would be best not to make statement that you are either unwilling or not or unable to back up.

Evanman and I have either been misunderstood and/or misquoted here. I have asked a very simple question regarding a remark that he has posted and it can not or will not be answered. I am bowing out of this debate since it is going nowhere and had turned into nothing more than mudslinging. See ya!
 

Featherbop

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Vic said:
Until someone can say how SDA is a cult, I will refrain from doing so. The bashing of the SDAs needs to either stop or be given a good reason to do so. The SDA church could not even be called a cult when compared to the Baptists around my area.
If you followed this debate, you woild have seen that it's topic has shifted from the SDA to Ellen G. White. Some here even believe the two are not synonymous. It would be best not to make statement that you are either unwilling or not or unable to back up.

Evanman and I have either been misunderstood and/or misquoted here. I have asked a very simple question regarding a remark that he has posted and it can not or will not be answered. I am bowing out of this debate since it is going nowhere and had turned into nothing more than mudslinging. See ya!
Gald to see you "bow out" of this "debate". I noticed and pointed out that this topic was turned to ellen g white. People either have nothing else on the SDA that they have to switched to a prohetess. Many seem to think ellen and SDA are synonamous. I do not, however, and am undecided on her and her teachings.

Right, the whole topic was started by Gary Bee, who made the assault of the SDAs being a cult. He never came back, and then the topic started to turn to ellen white, about when evanman started posting. So, this topic was for bashing ellen white, and only with a couple posts was even remotely related to the topic.

So, I'll quit here too. How about a nice old lock slammed on this topic?
 
G

Gary

Guest
The SDA cult

SDA a cult?

Featherbop: "... the whole topic was started by Gary Bee, who made the assault of the SDAs being a cult. He never came back..."

Gary: You are right. I did start the topic with a post on "Errors of the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM cult " on MATTHEW 18:23–35. Can one’s forgiveness be canceled once it is given, as Seventh-Day Adventists claim? Interesting that you have not answered that post yet.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 9637#49637

I also posed the question (poll)...
  • Is the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST "church" a cult?
    Yes 52% [ 10 ]
    No 26% [ 5 ]
    Not sure 21% [ 4 ]
So it seems half the people here think SDA is a cult and 20% are not sure.

I also DID come back and post again, this time trying to summarize what I had read about SDA. In particular, I noted
  • Aberrant teachings of SDA
    1) Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    2) Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    3) Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    4) On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    5) Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    6) The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    7) The wicked are annihilated.
    8) Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    9) There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.
You can view this post here.... http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 2874#62874

I was wondering... do you have a response to these teachings?
 
G

Gary

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Jesus is Michael the Archangel

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

I highlighted that particular teaching "Jesus is Michael the Archangel" which http://www.carm.org/sda.htm references as a teaching from SDA. I do believe that is a JW teaching (Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15, 1963, p. 307; The New World, 284.) but was unaware that it was a SDA teaching as well. Has CARM made a mistake here?

Here is one link which seems to be SDA and also claims that Jesus is Michael the Archangel http://www.biblelight.net/michael.htm

Please help me.... is it a SDA teaching?

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Note: I do not believe that Michael the Archangel is Jesus for several reasons. Firstly, Jesus is the second person of the Godhead (1 John 1:1, 8:58, 20;28, Col 2:9) and secondly, Jesus is Creator of all angels (John 1:3, Col 1:15-16). The angel Michael was therefore created by Jesus and, like all angels, he worships Jesus (Heb 1:6).
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J

John the Baptist

Guest
Re: The SDA cult

Gary_Bee said:
SDA a cult?

Featherbop: "... the whole topic was started by Gary Bee, who made the assault of the SDAs being a cult. He never came back..."

Gary: You are right. I did start the topic with a post on "Errors of the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM cult " on MATTHEW 18:23–35. Can one’s forgiveness be canceled once it is given, as Seventh-Day Adventists claim? Interesting that you have not answered that post yet.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 9637#49637

I also posed the question (poll)...
  • Is the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST "church" a cult?
    Yes 52% [ 10 ]
    No 26% [ 5 ]
    Not sure 21% [ 4 ]
So it seems half the people here think SDA is a cult and 20% are not sure.

I also DID come back and post again, this time trying to summarize what I had read about SDA. In particular, I noted
  • Aberrant teachings of SDA
    1) Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    2) Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    3) Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    4) On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    5) Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    6) The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    7) The wicked are annihilated.
    8) Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    9) There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.
You can view this post here.... http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 2874#62874

I was wondering... do you have a response to these teachings?
***********
Surely Gary_ Bee!
Christ stated that 'one MUST BE BORN AGAIN' :fadein:. Also try 1 John 4:6 forum.
We will know soon enough about ALL of this, huh? See Obad. 16's END! :sad.
But you do not believe this either.
---John
 

Featherbop

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
1,444
Re: The SDA cult

Gary_Bee said:
SDA a cult?

Featherbop: "... the whole topic was started by Gary Bee, who made the assault of the SDAs being a cult. He never came back..."

Gary: You are right. I did start the topic with a post on "Errors of the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM cult " on MATTHEW 18:23–35. Can one’s forgiveness be canceled once it is given, as Seventh-Day Adventists claim? Interesting that you have not answered that post yet.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 9637#49637

I also posed the question (poll)...
  • Is the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST "church" a cult?
    Yes 52% [ 10 ]
    No 26% [ 5 ]
    Not sure 21% [ 4 ]
So it seems half the people here think SDA is a cult and 20% are not sure.

I also DID come back and post again, this time trying to summarize what I had read about SDA. In particular, I noted
  • Aberrant teachings of SDA
    1) Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    2) Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    3) Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    4) On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    5) Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    6) The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    7) The wicked are annihilated.
    8) Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    9) There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.
You can view this post here.... http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 2874#62874

I was wondering... do you have a response to these teachings?
The crowd is usually wrong. :lol: 4 polled are even undecided. The way i'm understanding you, Gary, is that you think these teachings you listed make the SDAs a cult. That is not what make a christian church a cult. I don't even neccesarily agree with all those things you listed, I am undecided on some.

The following from your teachings list I agree with and/or are Biblical:

1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9.

______

Now as for "Can one's forgiveness be canceled once it is given?"

What God gives, God can take away. If a person is forgiven of a certain sin, then deliberately gos back to the sin, then he should repent and turn away from the sin again. to ask forgiveness again.

______

Let me make a note here: I'm not neccesarily SDA as in agreeing on everything that any SDA church preaches. However there are some subjects, that have been shown that are 100% Biblical, that I agree with because of that. That is why I am undecided on some of these things you listed Gary. And, Gary some of those teachings of SDAs might be from a long time ago, and found not to be correct, or interpreted wrongly. Because I haven't heard some of those teachings from any SDA church that I can remember.

______

And another thing Gary, don't believe everything you read. :lol:

But noone is coming up with reasons that the SDAs are a real cult. People say they disagree with a taeching or two(which incidentaly has nothing to do with the Big picture) and call a group a cult. All the while being closeminded about believing anything else.

That is bigotry.

______
 
R

Rosie

Guest
Re: Jesus is Michael the Archangel

Gary_Bee said:
Jesus is Michael the Archangel

I highlighted that particular teaching "Jesus is Michael the Archangel" which http://www.carm.org/sda.htm references as a teaching from SDA. I do believe that is a JW teaching (Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15, 1963, p. 307; The New World, 284.) but was unaware that it was a SDA teaching as well. Has CARM made a mistake here?

Here is one link which seems to be SDA and also claims that Jesus is Michael the Archangel http://www.biblelight.net/michael.htm

Please help me.... is it a SDA teaching?

---------------------------

Note: I do not believe that Michael the Archangel is Jesus for several reasons. Firstly, Jesus is the second person of the Godhead (1 John 1:1, 8:58, 20;28, Col 2:9) and secondly, Jesus is Creator of all angels (John 1:3, Col 1:15-16). The angel Michael was therefore created by Jesus and, like all angels, he worships Jesus (Heb 1:6).
.

Well, I think most modern Christians need to educate themselves on the historic position of Protestantism.


Adventists tend to take the historical Protestant position on a lot of topics.
I offer some opinions on the topic of Michael:

http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/c ... tm/vii.htm

"As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people. He is called the mighty prince, because he naturally opposed the unconquered fortitude of God to those dangers to which the angel represents the Church to be subject. .. . The angel then in treating of very grievous contests, and of the imminent danger of the Church, calls Michael the mighty prince. As if he had said, Michael should be the guardian and protector of the elect people, he should exercise immense power, and he alone without the slightest doubt should be sufficient for their protection. Christ confirms the same assertion, as we just; now saw, in the 10th chapter of John.

http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments ... niel12.htm

"The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel."

http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments ... niel12.htm

And at that time shall Michael stand up,.... The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God, as the name signifies, truly and really God, and equal in nature, power, and glory, to his divine Father: "he shall stand up"; which is not to be understood of his incarnation, or manifestation in the flesh, for this refers to times long after that; yet neither of his personal appearance in the clouds of heaven, and standing upon the earth in the latter day; but of his spiritual presence among his people, and protection of them, and continuance with them: this respects the spiritual reigns of Christ, the Lamb's standing upon Mount Zion, and the 144,000 with him, Revelation 14:1, and this will be at that time, when the eastern antichrist, the Turk, will be destroyed; for the words are closely connected with the last verse of the preceding chapter; and when also the western antichrist, the pope of Rome, will come to his end; for, as they rose, so they will fall, much about the same time; and then Christ will rise and stand up, as the glorious Head of the church, and as a triumphant Conqueror over all his enemies, and take to himself his great power, and reign, and that kingdom which of right belongs to him.

The great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people; the King of kings, and Lord of lords, the Prince of the kings of the earth; great in his person, and in his office; great in dignity, power, and authority; who always did, and ever will, stand on the side of the true Israel of God: he espoused their cause very early; he wrought out salvation for them in time; he intercedes for them now in heaven, and will appear to be their patron and defender against all their enemies in the latter day: here it seems to have special regard to the people of the Jews, Daniel's people; whom Christ shall appear unto, and for, in an eminent manner, to convert and save them, help and assist them, protect and defend them.

http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments ... niel12.htm

Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev. 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his.

http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments ... niel12.htm

Verses 1-4 Michael signifies, "Who is like God," and his name, with the title of "the great Prince," points out the Divine Saviour. Christ stood for the children of our people in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the curse for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in pleading for them at the throne of grace. And after the destruction of antichrist, the Lord Jesus shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; and He shall appear for the complete redemption of all his people. When God works deliverance from persecution for them, it is as life from the dead. When his gospel is preached, many who sleep in the dust, both Jews and Gentiles, shall be awakened by it out of their heathenism of Judaism. And in the end the multitude that sleep in the dust shall awake; many shall arise to life, and many to shame. There is glory reserved for all the saints in the future state, for all that are wise, wise for their souls and eternity. Those who turn many to righteousness, who turn sinners from the errors of their ways, and help to save their souls from death, james 5:20, will share in the glory of those they have helped to heaven, which will add to their own glory.

http://www.gospelcom.net/eword/comments ... niel12.htm

Verse 1. For the children - The meaning seems to be, as after the death of Antiochus the Jews had some deliverance, so there will be yet a greater deliverance to the people of God, when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation. A time of trouble - A the siege of Jerusalem, before the final judgment. The phrase at that time, probably includes all the time of Christ, from his first, to his last coming.
 
E

evanman

Guest
Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
No where in the scripture that was quoted does it mention the Arch Angel as being the Messiah!
 
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