Razeontherock
Member
Knowing who we are in Christ, that's what makes it all work and is synonymous with the Holy Spirit who teaches us of Him
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Eternal life - What is this?
- Thread starter PeterJens
- Start date
Knowing who we are in Christ, that's what makes it all work and is synonymous with the Holy Spirit who teaches us of Him
Security
Do I fear rejection by Jesus?
No. I fear I might fail Him and to honour Him.
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!"
Matthew 25:21
"Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."
John 7:38
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23
In this fruit we have life, the Holy Spirit that flows from us, and in which we dwell, this is life.
God is consistent, not changing, always there, always ready to help, heal and minister.
Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."
John 12:37-40
There will always be some who simply do not listen, and life does not touch their hearts,
and so do not find healing yet will assert much scripture but without the gentleness of God.
Until we discover the gentleness within, maybe we have not yet found the eternal life we desire.
Do I fear rejection by Jesus?
No. I fear I might fail Him and to honour Him.
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!"
Matthew 25:21
"Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."
John 7:38
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23
In this fruit we have life, the Holy Spirit that flows from us, and in which we dwell, this is life.
God is consistent, not changing, always there, always ready to help, heal and minister.
Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."
John 12:37-40
There will always be some who simply do not listen, and life does not touch their hearts,
and so do not find healing yet will assert much scripture but without the gentleness of God.
Until we discover the gentleness within, maybe we have not yet found the eternal life we desire.
This thread is straying away from the topic and into the OSAS/OSNAS argument. Locking it now to clean it up.
Okay, as some of you probably now know I removed a lot of posts in this thread. I did not include an explanation for each and every removal but tried to send at least one with each new member's post I removed. If I missed anyone it was not intentional. The reason I have done is is because this thread had too many off topic posts. Some of the posts were pushing into the OSAS/OSNAS debate, which is not the topic of this thread and also is a temporarily banned topic. Some posts were in a discussion about CFnet's staff and rules, which is also off topic. Discussions of this nature should be brought to the TWTS forum if you wish to keep it private with the staff or the Questions and Suggestions for Staff forum if you want to discuss it more openly.
The topic of this thread is, "What is eternal security?" It is not when does one receive eternal security or how does one receive eternal security. Let's keep the discussion topic.
Okay, as some of you probably now know I removed a lot of posts in this thread. I did not include an explanation for each and every removal but tried to send at least one with each new member's post I removed. If I missed anyone it was not intentional. The reason I have done is is because this thread had too many off topic posts. Some of the posts were pushing into the OSAS/OSNAS debate, which is not the topic of this thread and also is a temporarily banned topic. Some posts were in a discussion about CFnet's staff and rules, which is also off topic. Discussions of this nature should be brought to the TWTS forum if you wish to keep it private with the staff or the Questions and Suggestions for Staff forum if you want to discuss it more openly.
The topic of this thread is, "What is eternal security?" It is not when does one receive eternal security or how does one receive eternal security. Let's keep the discussion topic.
Last edited:
Jim Parker
Member
Christ's death and resurrection "saved" all of mankind from permanent, physical, death. EVERYBODY, all saints and all sinners, will be raised immortal and incorruptible.(1Cor 15:52ff)
But not everyone gets eternal life. Only those who believe in Jesus (as demonstrated by their obedience to His commandment) will be given eternal life. (Jhn 5:28-29)
Eternal life is not possible without salvation from death
So: One more time:
When Adam sinned and brought sin into the world he also brought death which is the consequence (wage) of sin.
(Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—)
When Jesus bore the sins of the world at His crucifixion and then rose from death to new indestructible life.
All of mankind will be raised from the dead.
( 1Co 15:52-54 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.*** So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”)
He "saved" all of mankind from death, the consequence of sin.
(1Jo 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.)
(Rom 5:17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
But not all of mankind will be given "eternal life." Some will receive eternal condemnation.
(John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.)
So, the way I see it is that what is commonly referred to as "salvation: is actually a two part process.
(1) All of mankind is saved from physical death and will be raised from the grave immortal and incorruptible.
(2) only the righteous will receive eternal life.
*** "Immortality" does NOT equal "eternal life." Those who are condemned have immortality and incorruptibility
but they still suffer eternal death. (aka: the second death)
If you're saying that OSAS is the "Very foundation of Christianity" then that is the issue.
There are people on both sides of the issue and we just can't seem to discuss the issue without getting feisty. So far, it has not been shown by the participants that we are able to remain kind, gentle, patient, loving, and sweet toward those demon-possessed heretics who disagree with us and will burn in hell for it!!!!!
ooops! My bad!
See what I mean?
So, to insure peace in this sandbox, that toy has been taken away and hidden from us.
Oh well.
It was just going in circles anyway.
Proof-text for! Proof-text against! Proof-text for! Proof-text against! Proof-text for! Proof-text against!
Proof-text for! Proof-text against!
Folk wuz agittin dizzy!
iakov the fool
B
blessedsmithereens
Guest
So according to your verse pasting there, before Christ did people just up and die and stay dead?
B
blessedsmithereens
Guest
Beautifully said! And without doubt, true.
Jim Parker
Member
To whom was that addressed?
B
blessedsmithereens
Guest
you.
Jim Parker
Member
Ah so des ka!
If you just write a response in the reply box at the bottom, the addressee wil not be indicated. You have to click on the "reply" button in the post to which you want to reply in order to indicate to what and to whom you are responding.
Like so:
Well, I don't know about "just up and died." They died of old age, of sickness, of war and disease and famine and a lot of other causes but, except for Elijah and Enoch, everybody died and we still do.
Before Christ died and rose again, when people died their bodies decayed and they never rose from the grave. Death of the body was permanent. That was the devil's plan; to cause the destruction of the image of God which is mankind. The devil hates God and he hates man because we carry God's image so he tricked Adam and Eve into sinning and the wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23)
After Jesus resurrection, all of mankind was freed from the curse of sin, which is death.
When He comes again all of mankind will be raised immortal and incorruptible
(1Co 15:42-44) So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Cor 15:51-54) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
iakov the fool
B
blessedsmithereens
Guest
Thanks.Ah so des ka!
If you highlight it and then click on "reply" your reply will identify to whom you are responding.
Like so:
Well, I don't know about "just up and died." They died of old age, of sickness, of war and disease and famine and a lot of other causes but, except for Elijah and Enoch, everybody died and we still do.
Before Christ died and rose again, when people died their bodies decayed and they never rose from the grave. Death of the body was permanent. That was the devil's plan; to cause the destruction of the image of God which is mankind. The devil hates God and he hates man because we carry God's image so he tricked Adam and Eve into sinning and the wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23)
After Jesus resurrection, all of mankind was freed from the curse of sin, which is death.
When He comes again all of mankind will be raised immortal and incorruptible
(1Co 15:42-44) So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Cor 15:51-54) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
iakov the fool
So what happened to all the Old Testament people who died before Jesus came?
Jim Parker
Member
Their bodies are still dead.
The souls of the OT saints (faithful) are with the Lord but their bodies have long ago returned to dust.
iakov the fool
Kidron
Member
-
Yes, knowing exactly who we are "in Christ", (Sonship status) is THE Revelation regarding a born again believer.
Without it, discipleship is to pursue a complete misunderstanding of Grace.
We are saved by Grace, kept by Grace, and everything that God has provided for our eternal life and forgiveness of sin, is offered and completed by Grace.
And what is the Grace of God?
"Jesus".
Jesus is God's Grace.
This is where the phrase "Jesus Saves", originates.
We are saved because Jesus IS Salvation, He IS Eternal Life, and He is IN us, and we are IN Him, "in Christ".
This is who we are, this is what we are, and this situation, is eternal.
All of this, is God's Amazing Grace.
Razeontherock
Member
Hmm. It almost sounds as if you're defining eternal life as Christ in you, our only hope of glory. I would hope this is an acceptable statement to all here?
B
blessedsmithereens
Guest
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
John 14:15 John 14:23
Interpretation verses what makes sense, what is the issue?
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 16:28
But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
John 6:50
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Acts 13:48
Jesus regarded the transfiguration of Jesus coming in His Kingdom. All the 3 synoptic gospels agree.
Jesus is saying that partaking of His body, identifying with His death and resurrection is entering eternal life
so the 2nd death will not effect them. Now one could say if you are talking generally not dying is about ones
physical death, except we know this is not possible, so Jesus was talking about the 2nd death.
It is very much like the question does Jesus claim to be God. If you are interested in finding out, the answer is
yes, but if you want an excuse to claim He was just a prophet, you can work out a plausible argument.
It all centres on what your heart wants. Scripture judges us and delivers what we want it to say.
Acts implies out believing is the sign of our appointing to eternal life.
Another verse that causes me some thought is this one
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
Very often we put down our understanding to ourselves rather than the Holy Spirit and our calling.
Here is Paul suggesting our position and understanding is very much in Gods hands. Falling in the trap of
the devil is a very dangerous place to be, because we can be lost unless God intervenes.
So our walk is a living relationship, a living breathing reality which we must be careful of.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 16:28
But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
John 6:50
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Acts 13:48
Jesus regarded the transfiguration of Jesus coming in His Kingdom. All the 3 synoptic gospels agree.
Jesus is saying that partaking of His body, identifying with His death and resurrection is entering eternal life
so the 2nd death will not effect them. Now one could say if you are talking generally not dying is about ones
physical death, except we know this is not possible, so Jesus was talking about the 2nd death.
It is very much like the question does Jesus claim to be God. If you are interested in finding out, the answer is
yes, but if you want an excuse to claim He was just a prophet, you can work out a plausible argument.
It all centres on what your heart wants. Scripture judges us and delivers what we want it to say.
Acts implies out believing is the sign of our appointing to eternal life.
Another verse that causes me some thought is this one
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
Very often we put down our understanding to ourselves rather than the Holy Spirit and our calling.
Here is Paul suggesting our position and understanding is very much in Gods hands. Falling in the trap of
the devil is a very dangerous place to be, because we can be lost unless God intervenes.
So our walk is a living relationship, a living breathing reality which we must be careful of.
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Aameen, Aameen , Aameen
Maria E Abreu
Member
Yes, Christ in us the hope of glory.
We all who have Christ, do have this hope within us.
Keep yourselves in the love of God while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, which leads to eternal life. Jude 21 MEV
ME
Razeontherock
Member
My tagline on many forums was exactly that, followed up by "and the rest is just details." I became known for that, lol