faithtransforms said:
I am sure this has been discussed in the past, although I don't see any recent posts for it. This topic is really bugging me. I would like to believe in eternal security, but I cannot get past this passage: "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment given to them." - 2 Peter 2:20 - 21. To me, this clearly implies that the person has been cleansed and saved, and having turned, will suffer worse damnation than an unbeliever. Is there any other way to interpret this passage? I have a disobedient streak a mile long (not obeying the promptings of the Holy Spirit out of fear) and frankly, I'm afraid I'm going to end up in hell for it. My relationship with God grows weaker everyday, and I am afraid I will fall away.
I would like to see scriptural support from people on both sides of this issue. It would really mean a lot to me.
Thanks.
Here are Jesus' words. I take them seriously.
John 10: 5 Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name. 26 But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and
they will never perish.
No one can snatch them away from me, 29 f
or my Father has given them to me, and
he is more powerful than anyone else.
No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.â€Â
Nobody can take away what God has given.
John says this:
1 John 2: 18 Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and
already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come. 19
These people left our churches,
but they never really belonged with us; o
therwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.
Salvation. You either have it or you don't. If you have it you cannot lose it. Some people act as if they have it, but don't.
Matthew 7: 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, '
I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Calling Jesus Lord or even doing religious acts does not get us into Heaven. We can't do anything. It is about having a personal relationship. A relationship however is reciprocal. Some people think they know him, but don't. They know about him, but they don't know him and he certainly does not know them.
There is only one unforgivable sin and it is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. This isn't something that you can do by accident or by a slip of the tongue. It is a willful act of attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the Devil.
The argument of OSAS has raged for centuries. You have to come to your own understanding based on your own understanding of scripture as led by the Holy Spirit.
My own feeling is that God cannot make a mistake. He knows our heart and he knows whether we will follow through. Since he knows the first from the last, he cannot err. He knows before he gives it whether we will be saved. Once given it cannot be changed. Otherwise God would be fallible and that is impossible. It violates his sovereign nature.
It all comes down to what we know to be true and what God knows to be true. People like to fool themselves or they may not understand the meaning of salvation.
John in 1 John 3 and James in James 2 tell us that saving faith moves us into action. If it does not move us into obedience and to love others then we do not understand God's nature or our own commitment. Therefore since it is based on partial understanding or insincerity, our salvation isn't real. James and John spend lots of time telling us what authentic Christians are like. So there must be counterfeit ones out there. We know that there are false teachers and Antichrists among us, so it shouldn't be surprising to find counterfeit Chrsitians.
James says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatâ€â€and shudder." (James 2: 19)
Blessings,
Dunamite