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[_ Old Earth _] Evolution Vs Evolution Concerning Textbooks

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victorhadin

Guest
Well it has been a laidback halloween, to be sure, with merely a couple of friends watching a movie with beers, but hey.

I have had a couple, so I shall reserve my standard injection at this point, but I must ask.....





What did you think of my writing? ;)
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Not today......

I'm not going to argue with a person who speaks against God and his word and think he is going to teach me anything.

The world has many lies out there,so don't recommend any to me. I read what is dependable and know what is real and what isn't.
If I believed all the evolutionists and atheists said, I would believe lies.

I'm going to post this one last time.

The ancient Hebrews are the only people that God revealed himself to in the history of this planet, so it doesn't matter if Marduk was in love with Baal or Zeus married more than 7 times, or if Gautama and the like believed whatever. I know of what I speak.

The Jews, the Jews, the Jews.

THE GREATEST PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTENCE AND FAITHFULNESS ARE THE JEWS, THE JEWS, THE JEWS.

You are mistaken if you think there was any revelation of God before God revealed himself to Abram.
 
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saved4life

Guest
The Jews, the Jews, the Jews.
Oh, and they're all going to Hell, too, huh?

They don't recognize Christ as their savior, so they're not God's favs anymore.
 
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saved4life

Guest
The ancient Hebrews are the only people that God revealed himself to in the history of this planet
There's one born every minute. Well, more often, really.
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Israel will be saved. Jesus Christ was a Jew and he came to save his own people, and when they recieved him not, it was to save the Gentiles, but after Jesus takes out of the world his Gentile church, he will deal with Israel again as a nation and will save Israel.
 
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saved4life

Guest
Rebecka said:
Israel will be saved. Jesus Christ was a Jew and he came to save his own people, and when they recieved him not, it was to save the Gentiles, but after Jesus takes out of the world his Gentile church, he will deal with Israel again as a nation and will save Israel.

Not Biblical in any sense.

Well, just keep thinking things that make you feel good. It's got you this far...
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Victorhadin's book

I'm off to read Victor's book, so I can get a better look at him........................
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Victorhadin's book

I must say that Victorhadin's story is well written. It is excellent.
Sad that it is about a poor man committing suicide and wonder what was on all his computers and why didn't he leave a note

Victorhadin, I don't agree with you about evolution, but I can see you're an excellent storyteller. You can get rich with your talent and there is nothing wrong with that, but then maybe you're already rich by selling your stories..

Have you a story of true love?
 
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victorhadin

Guest
Re: Victorhadin's book

Rebecka said:
I must say that Victorhadin's story is well written. It is excellent.
Sad that it is about a poor man committing suicide and wonder what was on all his computers and why didn't he leave a note

Victorhadin, I don't agree with you about evolution, but I can see you're an excellent storyteller. You can get rich with your talent and there is nothing wrong with that, but then maybe you're already rich by selling your stories..

Have you a story of true love?
Why thankyou. :biggrin

Nah; no wealth as yet. I haven't as yet tried sending any of my work to a publisher, though I intend to some day, when I have the time to get enough stories completed (the one I showed you was only the first part of a larger story; it gets rather more bizarre).

No love stories, I'm afraid. I don't trust my characterisation far enough for that. I'm mainly into science-fiction.

Anyhow, this makes a welcome break from facing each other down in the rest of the thread, and you were right when you said that neither of us were going to change the other's mind, to be fair. :angel:
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Sc-Fi

Well, :) Victorhadin, I hope you do post some more of your interesting story. I would be one to be interested in science fiction, it is one of my favorite things.

Have you ever read "The Mote In God's Eye"? It is sci-fi and real bizarre.

Anyway, I'm going to visit a website on speciation to see what the heck it is. I want to look at it through the Scriptures, the way I look at everything else. I can't help it, that is how God made me.

I read what you posted on speciation somewhere and I think you said it is some unable somewhere moving to do what they need to do elswhere.

I think. You just made me curious about it. I never even heard of it before.
 

Bryan

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Messages
230
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
victorhadin said:
Now back up creationism or admit that it has no scientific merit. I have been waiting the entire length of this thread for you to do one or the other.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I've never stated that creationism was a proven fact. All I'm saying is that evolution is equally speculative, and requires at least as much faith in the unknown as creationism does, if not more so.
 
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saved4life

Guest
Bryan said:
victorhadin said:
Now back up creationism or admit that it has no scientific merit. I have been waiting the entire length of this thread for you to do one or the other.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I've never stated that creationism was a proven fact. All I'm saying is that evolution is equally speculative, and requires at least as much faith in the unknown as creationism does, if not more so.
Please.

Evolution is as true of a physical phenomenon as is rain.

The only problem people have is when scientists turn the process onto people. They don't like that because "we" don't believe we are animals.
 
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victorhadin

Guest
Re: Sc-Fi

Rebecka said:
Well, :) Victorhadin, I hope you do post some more of your interesting story. I would be one to be interested in science fiction, it is one of my favorite things.

Have you ever read "The Mote In God's Eye"? It is sci-fi and real bizarre.

Anyway, I'm going to visit a website on speciation to see what the heck it is. I want to look at it through the Scriptures, the way I look at everything else. I can't help it, that is how God made me.

I read what you posted on speciation somewhere and I think you said it is some unable somewhere moving to do what they need to do elswhere.

I think. You just made me curious about it. I never even heard of it before.
Why, thank you. There's nothing quite like a compliment to make one less inclined to argue about things. ;)

I have indeed read the Mote in God's Eye, as well as the Moat around Murcheson's Eye. Both excellent books.

Speciation is not really as dramatic as a lot of people think. It is essentially the divergence of two or more population groups from one. The divergent groups do not necessarily even have to look different to the groups they stemmed from, really.
I bring it up as a lot of creationists say that speciation has never been seen to occur, and speciation is one of the stepping-stones necessary for evolutionary theory to be consistent.

Bryan; sorry for misinterpreting. I can't honestly remember what the original subject of the thread was, such is the nature of the internet.

But I would venture that belief in evolution takes far less blind faith than one in creationism. Evolution by natural selection is backed by virtually the entire scientific community, has a huge amount of circumstancial evidence going for it and does not violate any known laws of physics or behaviour.
Creationism, on the other hand, assumes a creative deity for which no real evidence has ever been presented. Literal biblical creationism is even worse, as it directly contradicts findings from most scientific disciplines.
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Victorhadin, you say the Bible is not true when the Bible gave us the information science now claims as it's own, because in reality, for the first time in recorded history are found these words in Genesis;
"In the beginning, (which,`in the beginning is obviously TIME)
God created the heavens, (which is obviously SPACE) and the earth, )which is obviously MATTER)


Those words are found nowhere else in recorded history except in the book of Genesis. At one time in historythe Jews' book was all anyone had to read[/quote]
and when other books began to show up, they all originated in the Bible.

Only good and evil exist in the universe and the Bible told of these two powers and explained them when recorded history began.
 
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victorhadin

Guest
Oh, I don't think the bible is 100% untrue; I fully expect there are nuggets of truth within it's pages (some historical references, for example), but not for some of the bits which just run against scientific knowledge, such as the flood, literal young-earth creationism etc.

Anyhow, what information are you talking about exactly? Perhaps I missed the flavour of your post.
 
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Rebecka

Guest
A young earth is easy to believe even as believing anything is easy to believe because in this strange and mysterious universe, anything is possible.
An old earth is also easy to believe since nothing is impossible with God.

The Flood was indeed possible as anything is possible. (How do you account for all the strewn about rocks?There is no order of the placement of the earth's rocks and stones and pebbles) I'm asking you..
How do you account for fossils of fish found on mountaintops? Or the Mammoths in Siberia encased in ice?

Faith is a powerful thing. Jesus said "all things are possible to him that believes." and if I believe I'm a stupid loser, I am one for Solomon (and none else) said "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he"

But, If I believe I can do all things through the Christ who came to tell me I am able to live forever through faith in him, I will believe it. I have all to gain and nothing to lose.


Victorhadin, Genesis tells us of a tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God used simplicity to show us great truths only he can bear.
 
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saved4life

Guest
Genesis tells us of a tree of knowledge of good and evil. God used simplicity to show us great truths only he can bear.
How many Christians on here think the tree was an actual tree, or if it is just metaphorical?
 
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Rebecka

Guest
Savedforlife, you wonder how many christians here believe it was an actual tree or metaphorical.

The truth in this is God told them not to eat from that tree. When they disobeyed, they became aware of evil also, the evil being their disobedience.

Whether an actual tree was there or the idea alone isn't important, but the message here is man disobeyed God.

An atheist once went to great lengths to prove apples don't grow in the Mesopotamian valley,to prove the Bible wrong, without realizing that the Bible doesn't even say it was an apple.
 
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victorhadin

Guest
Rebecka said:
A young earth is easy to believe even as believing anything is easy to believe because in this strange and mysterious universe, anything is possible.
An old earth is also easy to believe since nothing is impossible with God.
An addictive idea, but the assumption of an omnipresent, omnipotent deity fixing things just so they would look like something else is rather a large assumption, dontchathink? ;)

On the whole, I don't mind. A christian may believe what they like; it is only the oxymoronically-named 'creation scientists' who believe there is scientific merit to their ideas that I dislike intensely.

The Flood was indeed possible as anything is possible. (How do you account for all the strewn about rocks?There is no order of the placement of the earth's rocks and stones and pebbles)
The order in river valleys, glacial valleys and sedimentary substrate are more or less what is to be expected in most places. Perhaps you could be more specific?

If you refer to giant rocks moved many, many miles from their point of orign, then think of glacial valley systems. My home town is surrounded by glacial valleys, and I know one particular street in which a giant boulder has literally been built around. -No mystery there; glaciers are well known for their ability to haul such stuff around.

I'm asking you..
How do you account for fossils of fish found on mountaintops? Or the Mammoths in Siberia encased in ice?
Fossils of sea creatures in the Himalayas is hardly a startling thing, considering that they used to be below sea level; the whole Himalayan mountain system was pushed up as a result of continental collision.

And what exactly is the mystery in frozen mammoths? They were known for inhabiting cold climates and wandering near glacial systems, and Siberia is (and was then) a very cold place indeed. They wouldn't be the first things to be found long frozen. Cavemen (the so-called 'ice mummies') have been found encased in ice for thousands of years too.

On the other hand, the flood doesn't hold up to scrutiny when you consider atmospheric pressure, vapour content and temperature, the release of heat energy during the rain, the way that fossils are sorted by era, not hydrodynamic properties, the way that all life has evidently not been completely wiped out (as a 10km deep flood would do), sea life has obviously not been killed off by dilution of their saltwater habitat, how exactly Noah could possibly have constructed his ark and got all the animals on plants on board etc. etc.

The whole idea is scientifically preposterous.

The genesis account, meanwhile, cannot hold up to scrutiny considering radiological (and other) dating methods, how gravitational potential energy was somehow bled off in days, why we, on a young Earth, can see stars millions of light years away, why limestone and other rock formations have had a chance to be created etc.

Faith is a powerful thing. Jesus said "all things are possible to him that believes." and if I believe I'm a stupid loser, I am one for Solomon (and none else) said "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he"
*Shrug.*

Suit yourself. Believe what you like, but don't go criticising scientific theory when you are ill-versed in it; that is all I ask.

But, If I believe I can do all things through the Christ who came to tell me I am able to live forever through faith in him, I will believe it. I have all to gain and nothing to lose.
Pascal's wager, perhaps? A somewhat flawed bit of logical reasoning, but still addictive enough. I expect it feels nice to believe in an afterlife and a heaven where you may be rewarded for eternity.

Victorhadin, Genesis tells us of a tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God used simplicity to show us great truths only he can bear.
Until I see good and evil defined in absolute, rather than relative terms, I will withold judgement over that.
 
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