[ Young Earth ] Ex Nihilo

[Vaccine]

then commission that scientist to sort through the evidence that others have gathered and look for findings of significance within that light.

I'm not a scientist or qualified, but I think there is a link in Genesis between science and Christianity which is interesting.
I didn't know this before but Jasoncran pointed out what YLT translates "prepared" is actually "barah" which means "create from nothing". It is not my intention to redefine any terms or understanding of the meaning "create from nothing", so if I make a mistake please let me know.
"And God [prepareth] the man in His image; in the image of God He [prepared] him, a male and a female He [prepared] them" Genesis 1:27 YLT
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
The bible says God created from nothing male and female, but later says he made Adam from the dust in the ground. I take the bible literally, don't think there are any contradictions with those two verses, and think science provides a reasonable explanation for this. The verse says God created from nothing but does not actually say God created to something. I believe what God created in Genesis 1:27 was not an actual physical, tangible, made of atoms and flesh and blood man, but rather an intangible, immaterial man. What do I mean by an immaterial man? The genetic code. Look at this word: "Hello". What you are looking at is pixels on a screen lit up to look like a certain shape, the word "hello" is immaterial. I can't give you a handful of "hello", I can't put "hello" in a jar, it is a concept, made of nothing physical or tangible. When you see that word, the ink, the paper, the computer screen, those are all pyhsical and tangible material, but the word is not. Same when we speak that word, we are just making sound waves and our ear senses the change in pressure, which we translate to the concept "hello". The air and our ears are material, the word "hello" is immaterial.
The genetic code is also immaterial. It is a language that can be expressed in chemicals (DNA), the same as a language can be expressed in ink, light, rock, or sound waves. I can't give you a handful of the genetic code, it's immaterial, I can express that code on something material such as paper or a computer screen:

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I believe what God created in 1:27 was the human genome, genetic code over 3 billion basepairs (letters) long which are the instructions to make humans. 3 basepairs make a codon (word), codons link up to to make a gene (sentences), DNA is actually a library of books or blueprints if you prefer. 3 billion letters long would be a couple hundred books. Any misspelled words or errors in sentence structure results in self-sterilization. I think the bible is saying God created an immaterial "concept" of humans first, from nothing and still of nothing at that point and time, but eventually expressed that information in chemicals (DNA), to make actual physical humans. Just as someone would start with the immaterial, an idea for a book in their mind, then express it to the material by typing it out on paper. When the Lord formed Adam from the dust and breathed life into him, I believe this was the combination of the immaterial (human genome) and the material (DNA). I believe God created the genetic code, the emotions, the soul all the immaterial things that make humans in 1:27, and made the actual, physical, tangible man in 2:7. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks for quoting me, it called my attention. We've not had a chance to speak much - fair warning, sometimes I'm seen to ramble, but it is more an attempt to get down many thoughts that have occurred to me over a lifetime.

Let me ask, are "strange" or peculiar thoughts okay? I'm not trying to prove stuff and don't have a pet theory but, like you, enjoy thinking about it. As you will see, I'm not talking about things that I'm inventing, but instead trying to piece a puzzle together.

Here's the thought: The process of creation isn't done. We have not yet arrived on the "other side" so to speak. Part of the problem that I find (almost continually) involves verb tense where in English it is so fixed.

• Something happened. It is done. So there. It's almost like a "just so story"
• Something is happening now. I am typing. This doesn't take into consideration the moment ago when I also typed nor the time when you quoted what I said.
• Something has never happened but it will - future tense.

It's like we are so locked into our time-frame that we are not able to see outside of it. But then we begin to communicate with: God IS, who may be called 'The Altogether Other' because compared to us He is so very different. He IS. He called himself 'I AM'. Now we also know that all of heaven and earth shall pass away but His Word shall never pass away. What? Yes, that very living word that is in us, shall never pass away. And it was by His Word that we are created. Notice something - our spiritual creation also comes from His Word - the logos of God, that man who subjected himself to our framework and became, for a little while, lower than angels. Flesh.

Now? We are still being formed, in Christ, and admonished to follow after Him and as children of the Promise, we are told that God has prepared such things for us that can not even enter into the mind of man.

So this "creation" that we hear of, where God speaks and it is - that includes us and includes our temporary dwelling place of the tabernacle of flesh, the tent that we are currently contained and it also includes the continual process that the Holy Spirit is purposed about in us. Angels seek to look into such things. They help too.

And God [prepareth] the man in His image; in the image of God He [prepared] him

Notice the difference in the YLT regarding verb tense. He prepareth. He prepared. One sense is continuing, another is past. He did both. He planned and is actively accomplishing that plan (prepareth) in us. I struggle to understand, can only glimpse. I have no problem with your "immaterial man" concept that you mention, as I consider it. But we think in terms of time starting sometime in the past and continuing through what we call the *now* and on into our unseen future. That's how our language is structured these days too. What will it be like when we are with our Father and eternal? But wait, we are with Him *now* too. Ultimately? I don't want to go too far and try to discuss what Paul calls a mystery here too much (yet) but yes! It is a mystery.

Do we have hints for a 'time' when knowledge shall pass away? Where prophecy will no longer serve a function? Were we see His Face in a face-to-face manner? WHAT IS MAN, that YOU should regard him, O Lord?

Vaccine, what you are saying about the DNA is a way to look at the unseen and hidden things of God too. This does give light on the subject and I can better appreciate what you spoke of earlier about the enigma found in the human genome and all. Maybe I could call [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] for his input?

What I see when I hear you speak about the DNA focuses me on how this mystery corresponds to the mysterious workings of His Living Word in us. How we are changed from glory to glory, how into us is engrafted the living word of God able and equipped to change. We are to have the mind of Christ.

Somewhere I've heard and learned that the word "Christ" speaks about the anointing. Oil is symbolic of this and was used during what could be inauguration ceremonies into holy office. It is also a type of the Holy Spirit. Ruach Ha-kodesh. Spirit Holy. We speak of "God Breathed" when we speak of how the H.S. acted on men as the Bible was originally written.

Breath also has connection to the initial creation of man. God breathed into the nostril of man. Intimate touch there. Ruach literally means breath or wind. We do not know the invisible things, like the wind - where it listeth (thinking about John 3:8 now)

We are not not fully formed or realized but rather walk in the corruptible but the promise is that we shall be clothed in the incorruptible. I think this is a mystery and an active and ongoing process for those who will. Many are called, few are chosen.

Is there a wedding feast God prepared and prepareth for his son? What is that mystery that Paul spoke of when he talked about the union of man and wife, blessed by God? The two shall become one flesh? And if this holy union is the type, what is the anti-type? Has not Paul confirmed that this is the union between the Lamb of God and the Bride of Christ?

It (the Revelation of Jesus) was given unto John on the isle of Patmos. There (in the writings authored by the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle John) we may peek and see more. Some things are concealed for reason. It is our nature to inquire and to seek and to ask and to knock. No man knows the hour or the time, only the Father.

Similar things happened (I believe) for similar reason during the life of Christ before he was put to death. I'm convinced that the concealed things were hidden for reason. Here's part:

His purpose and plan will be accomplished. Isaiah 46:10-11
In the fullness of time, there was a point where God decided to send his son; so that ultimately the sin of Adam ended in the Glory of Christ. With respect to the devil, however, the prophecy was from the beginning that he would be crushed; and so, part of another mystery that Paul speaks of is a surprise where it looked like victory but that victory was swallowed up *simultaneously* leading to salvation and that part was, I think, very unexpected.

1 Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1 Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

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Okay - I've said much here. Poured it out. I like to read Psalm 51 as I study and try to learn about such things. It starts, "Have mercy on me O Lord..." This psalm also includes, "But lo, Thou requirest truth in the inward parts: and shalt make me to understand wisdom secretly," and the entire psalm serves to ground me even as my spirit soars and longs to be with Him.

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OOPS! I almost forgot to mention what brought this train of thought. Ex Nihilo. Out of Nothing. When we are with Him in Eternity, the book of James speaks about looking from this vantage point (I think) and tells us to consider (reckon) trial to be our primemost (chiefest) source of joy, knowing that the trial of our faith produces endurance, and we are to let endurance have its perfect result so that we may be mature and fully equipped, lacking nothing (paraphrase).

From this same perspective we will see our lives, that we are but grass, and insignificant. Vanished in a moment almost, but of that which endures? Of that which is formed in us? Isa 40:8 - the grass fades and the flowers fall but the Word of God endures forever. Will we think of ourselves our *now* as out of nothing? It could be. I think maybe is. I wanted to share that here. You are right to say that we are created by His WORD!

 

[Vaccine]

Hello @Sparrowhawke ! I appreciate your point of view on time, past and present tense. I read over it so fast I missed the tense. Good points about mans perception of time and the timeless, the eternal.

Here's the thought: The process of creation isn't done. We have not yet arrived on the "other side" so to speak. Part of the problem that I find (almost continually) involves verb tense where in English it is so fixed.

I think of it as a process too, that God is creating a place, creating people, creating purpose, creating a soul, creating heaven.

DNA is a way to look at the unseen and hidden things of God too.

Amen! I feel like DNA is just a glimpse into God's mysteries and wisdom.

You are right to say that we are created by His WORD!

I have always been amazed that God 'spoke' things into existence. Not that I think of God as having lungs, a mouth, and speaking Hebrew (or english), but that what he 'says' and what 'is' are inseparable.
I think of it as the 'mind' of God is speaking, and oceans and stars and life is being created.

The key is unity. Where may we find that? Opposition = standoff. Try collaboration. I don't mean compromise. Maybe this has happened and I'm just ignorant? That's happened before. I've seen that and it would not really surprise me to see it again.

I like the idea of collaboration, of finding common ground. I enjoy the discussions here about Christianity and science.