[_ Old Earth _] Failure of the "evolution" religion

[Guest]

Q',Q',Q',how wrong you are again!
We all know that Passover was one of the true holy days written about in the Bible,and no way can it be confused with any pagan day by the true researcher!!!
Passover is an actual holy day that came from God,amen.

The Hebrews were polytheistic for awhile and worshiped more than just Yaweh (God). When a priest of Yaweh said he found a scroll that was hidden in a building for 200 years and just happened to be missed, he was able to convince the king to make the Hebrews montheistic. At this point, the Hebrews were worshiping the Spring Festival. I believe it was very sexual and there may have been some human sacrifices. (Yaweh in general was against most human sacrifices.) So the king renamed this holiday to Passover. Remember this was 200 years after Moses. Who knew when passover was suppose to really have occurred. So this made a good way to refit their new religion into the patters of the old. I will just note that there is no historical evidence for Hebrew enslavement of Israelites nor of their exodus.


So if you disagree with me. Tell me what detail in my paragraph is wrong. And if it is not just an opinion, I can show you sources that support my side.

Quath

:B-fly: Q',please do show your sources!
You don't have any facts here,because that is a lie! The Jew's wouldn't dare write a book like the holy bible,no one would,and the holy days in the bible came straight from God himself!
Show what sources you have,please do.

 

[Guest]

:o barbarian,I know about the Roman church, I use to go to it for years,and I don't care what stories you have been told,I am sticking to the truth about it!
It is as pagan as you could possibly ever get!!!
You have been fed lies,so you can use your religion all you wish to,it's still going to get the same result from me,amen.

 

[Guest]

We all know that Passover was one of the true holy days written about in the Bible,and no way can it be confused with any pagan day by the true researcher!!!
So this made a good way to refit their new religion into the patters of the old. I will just note that there is no historical evidence for Hebrew enslavement of Israelites nor of their exodus.


Quath[/quote]

:B-fly: Q',if there is no evidence to support the fact that the jew's were held in captivity,why not tell the Iraqi people this news? They claim that is why the Jewish people spread it around that Babylon was the Mother of harlots,ect....
Why not also tell people to stop putting it on Television and in books!
Also,tell the Jewish people to stop telling their children about it.
I am blood related to the jewish people,so if you have a problem with the Jew's just come right out and say so!

 

[Barbarian]

barbarian,I know about the Roman church, I use to go to it for years,and I don't care what stories you have been told,I am sticking to the truth about it!

Blue, I was citing to you what the Catholic Chruch teaches. You've been misled, badly. I have a hard time believing that any Roman Catholic church would teach what you claim to have been taught. It directly contradicts Church doctrine.

It is as pagan as you could possibly ever get!!!

As I said, those who think they hate Catholics most often don't know what Catholics believe. If you learned what the Church really teaches, you wouldn't feel the way you do.

Hint: When if you want to learn about capitalism, don't ask Fidel Castro.

You have been fed lies,so you can use your religion all you wish to,it's still going to get the same result from me,amen.

There is none so blind as he who will not see...

 

[Barbarian]

It is true. Initially, the Jews did believe in other Gods. They did not fully comprehend that there is only one God until somewhat later.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Quath:

I echo blue's request....I'd like to see a link regarding the recent points you made....I'd heard snipets of it before but would like to read more about it.

Gracias....

 

[Quath]

Q',please do show your sources!
You don't have any facts here,because that is a lie! The Jew's wouldn't dare write a book like the holy bible,no one would,and the holy days in the bible came straight from God himself!
Show what sources you have,please do.

One of the best websites for this information is at http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch08.htm. Here is an excerpt that talks about the conversion from polytheism to monotheism:

In 655 BCE, Egypt was able to break away from Assyrian rule. The Assyrians were then weakened by conflicts over succession, by coups and civil war. During these conflicts, cities in Canaan broke away from Assyrian control and Phoenicia began ignoring Assyrian directives. Other petty kingdoms joined the rebellion against Assyria, and in 623 the well-led Chaldean army drove north from around Sumer and expelled the Assyrians from Babylon.

With the independence of Egypt and Babylon, and a weakened Assyria, the new king of Judah, Josiah -- the grandson of Manasseh -- declared Judah independent. The hereditary Yahweh priesthood, which had suffered a loss of status during Assyrian domination, seized independence as an opportunity to advance its cause. With the support of Josiah and the zeal of the newly liberated, they moved against the religious influences that had gained ascent during Assyria's domination.

The Yahweh priesthood claimed to have found in a secret archive within Solomon's temple a scroll signed by Moses -- a document to become known as the Book of the Covenant. How a work of such importance as Moses' scroll had been lost or misplaced and forgotten for the two hundred years since the building of Solomon's temple, remains a mystery. King Josiah treated the scroll as genuine. He supported the Yahwist priests, and he complained that previous generations had not listened to Yahweh. Now began an official intolerance that had not been the policy of kings David, Solomon, Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehu and Manasseh. According to the Old Testament, king Josiah, accompanied by a great crowd, went to Solomon's temple and there made a covenant with Yahweh. Josiah ordered all objects of worship that were not Yahwist taken from Solomon's temple, and these were burned in a field outside Jerusalem.

The high priest of Yahwism ordered lesser priests to Jerusalem, and he issued a new code that forbade all subjects of Josiah to practice religious rituals of "foreign" origin. According to the Old Testament, the code's proscriptions included religious ordeals of passing through fire. It included practicing witchcraft, sorcery, using omens, worshiping images of gods in wood or stone, and it included a prohibition against orgiastic fertility festivals -- festivals held in the spring and autumn that were accompanied by mass drunkenness and religious frenzy. The new code forbade all religious worship outside of Solomon's temple. Temples outside of Jerusalem were rendered unusable. The new code forbade human sacrifices. According to the Second Book of Kings (23:10), Josiah defiled a place called the "Topheth," a word meaning drums, which had been beaten loudly to drown out the screams of children being burned to death in sacrificial offerings.22 And the new code forbade the sacred prostitution that had been attached to temples, including the homosexual prostitution that was a part of Ba'al fertility worship.

The penalty for adhering to any of the newly forbidden practices was death, and death was the punishment too for the priests of rival religions. According to the Second Book of Kings 23:20, king Josiah led the assault:

And all the priests of the high places who were there he slaughtered on the altars and burned human bones on them.

Those who had been indulging in the now forbidden religious practices were great in number, and their religious practices had become habits not easily surrendered. And rather than try to force people to completely eradicate all of their old habits, the priests gave Josiah's subjects a new meaning to various rituals that could fit with Yahweh worship. In the place of human sacrifices, animal sacrifices were to be performed. Instead of fertility festivals, they would engage in festivals that demonstrated their gratitude and devotion to Yahweh. The most important of these festivals, the spring festival, became the Passover -- a commemoration of the exodus from Egypt led by Moses.

Quath

 

[Quath]

Q',if there is no evidence to support the fact that the jew's were held in captivity,why not tell the Iraqi people this news? They claim that is why the Jewish people spread it around that Babylon was the Mother of harlots,ect....
Why not also tell people to stop putting it on Television and in books!
Also,tell the Jewish people to stop telling their children about it.
I am blood related to the jewish people,so if you have a problem with the Jew's just come right out and say so!

One of many good websites for this is http://www.anatheist.com/Articles/history_exodus3.html. Some excerpts:

-----------------
James K. Hoffmeier readily admits in his book, Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition that “no one has been able to identify any unimpeachable evidence in Egypt, either historical or archaeological, to support the biblical accounts of the sojourn and exodus eventsâ€Â

The Oxford History of the Biblical World also comments on this problem:
Any search for a historical core to the Exodus saga must work within the network of established and interdependent chronologies for Egypt and the ancient Near East. The first step is to seek mention of Exodus events in nonbiblical ancient sources. Unfortunately, there are none: no texts from Egypt or anywhere else in the ancient Near East provide such an independent witness. Years of the most intensive scrutiny have failed to produce a single unequivocal, or even generally accepted, nonbiblical historical reference to any event or person involved in the Exodus saga.

William Dever (2001) calls any such attempts as “fruitlessâ€Â:
…archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus has…been discarded as a fruitless pursuit. Indeed, the overwhelming archaeological evidence today of largely indigenous origins for early Israel leaves no room for an exodus from Egypt or a 40 year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness. A Moses-like figure may have existed somewhere in southern Transjordan in the mid-late 13th century BCE, where many scholars think the biblical traditions concerning the god Yahweh arose. But archaeology can do nothing to confirm such a figure as a historical personage, much less prove that he was the founder of later Israelite religion
----------

I can find many other sources if you like. Basically, the Jewish/Christian response is that the Egptians were so humilated that they erased Israelite slavery from their history. However, this is unlikely since it would be like American erasing slavery from its history. The other hardship is trying to find a path Moses could have taken that corresponds to the Bible. All routes have been shown to be unlikely.

Quath

 

[Quath]

I am blood related to the jewish people,so if you have a problem with the Jew's just come right out and say so!

Just to be clear. I have nothing against the Jews. I have frequently defended them against the KKK style Christians.

Quath

 

[ThinkerMan]

Q-

Thanks for the sources (by the way, I saw no anti-jewish intonations in anything you wrote).

It's unfortunate that some equate questions with condemnation.

 

[reznwerks]

israel

[quote="Quath"

I can find many other sources if you like. Basically, the Jewish/Christian response is that the Egptians were so humilated that they erased Israelite slavery from their history. However, this is unlikely since it would be like American erasing slavery from its history. The other hardship is trying to find a path Moses could have taken that corresponds to the Bible. All routes have been shown to be unlikely.

Quath[/quote]
================
You are correct in that outside of the bible no evidence exists to quantify the claims that Israelites were held in captivity in Egypt. The desert is not so big as they could remain unknown and unseen for forty years without leaving a trace of their wanderings. They would have aroused suspicion when they certainly would have required travel to secure enough food and water and those places known to have water would have tipped someone off. More damning is the fact that if the Jews were held captive they picked up not one Egyptian word in their language and the Egyptians didn't pick up one word from the Jews. Like it or not anywhere the slave practice was used the cultures picked up something from each other. Not one shred of evidence exists to confirm the story here.

 

[Guest]

As I said, those who think they hate Catholics most often don't know what Catholics believe. If you learned what the Church really teaches, you wouldn't feel the way you do.

:Fade-color You are not the first catholic to accuse me of hating catholics and I am sure you won't be the last. That is a lie straight for satan himself,and you know it,but this so common among catholics to cry hate when they cannot convince someone that being a catholic is good.
I know all about the catholic church,and I believe the ex-catholic who know all about it too.
If this debate offends you,then we can drop it because I don't want to offend you.

 

[Guest]

Re: israel

[quote="Quath"

I can find many other sources if you like. Basically, the Jewish/Christian response is that the Egptians were so humilated that they erased Israelite slavery from their history. However, this is unlikely since it would be like American erasing slavery from its history. The other hardship is trying to find a path Moses could have taken that corresponds to the Bible. All routes have been shown to be unlikely.

Quath

================
You are correct in that outside of the bible no evidence exists to quantify the claims that Israelites were held in captivity in Egypt. The desert is not so big as they could remain unknown and unseen for forty years without leaving a trace of their wanderings. They would have aroused suspicion

:B-fly: You two are really shocking!
satan has you where he wants you,and that is ashame.
I wonder why all the other races didn't help the blacks keep their history and heritage? Why is it so hard for black families to trace their roots?
I know there is alot of evidence to support the claims of the Jew's,and I am sure that if you dig your heads out of your fantasy literature awhile,you might find the truth too!

 

[Guest]

Q-

Thanks for the sources (by the way, I saw no anti-jewish intonations in anything you wrote).

It's unfortunate that some equate questions with condemnation.

:Fade-color Of course you wouldn't! not a shock to me at all.
I think it's such a shame that atheists think I hate them just because I know alot about their agenda and hatred towards God. How sad,isn't it?

 

[Guest]

I am blood related to the jewish people,so if you have a problem with the Jew's just come right out and say so!

Just to be clear. I have nothing against the Jews. I have frequently defended them against the KKK style Christians.

Quath

:Fade-color If that is true,that there are those so called KKK christians against the jewish people,why would you ever believe them or call them christian?
It appears that you seem to believe everyone you want to believe except the true christians who do love the jew's and all people.

So you can pick and choose who you think are true christians huh?

 

[Guest]

I am not a liberal with an agenda,I am interested in the truth,amen.
The woman in Roe Vs. Wade tells everyone what the pro-choice people did to her,and now she is a born again christian helping to stop abortion!
Praises all belong to the Holy Father,The Son,and the Spirit,amen & Amen!
God changes lives!

:Fade-color ooops,looks like I got off topic! Sorry about that.
Got some topics mixed up with one another.
Either way, we all need to stay on topic,right Quath?

 

[Guest]

Q',please do show your sources!
:angel: Again more lies!
Did you tell everyone a little history of these individuals that you claim have facts?
You just want to believe they are telling you the truth so badly you can just taste it,but sorry to be the first to tell you this,they lied!

 

[Quath]

Re: israel

I wonder why all the other races didn't help the blacks keep their history and heritage? Why is it so hard for black families to trace their roots?

Where are you going with this? Seems out of the blue. (Pun intended ;) )

I know there is alot of evidence to support the claims of the Jew's,and I am sure that if you dig your heads out of your fantasy literature awhile,you might find the truth too!

Then tell me what Pharoah the Israelites were slaves under and place it in history (like who was the Pharoah before and after). Then it would be interesting if any information could back that up.

If that is true,that there are those so called KKK christians against the jewish people,why would you ever believe them or call them christian?
It appears that you seem to believe everyone you want to believe except the true christians who do love the jew's and all people.

So you can pick and choose who you think are true christians huh?

To me a Christian is one that professes to follow Jesus and follows most of the New Testament.

Try this site:www.ex-atheist.com
Zola Levitt is very good of clearing up all the lies and myths about the jew's,and there are many archeaologists,and others who have found remains belonging to the jewish people when they were wndering in the wilderness 40 years plus ties that connected them to being held captive as well.

Tell me some information from that website that shows that the Israelites were slaves of Egypt.

The woman in Roe Vs. Wade tells everyone what the pro-choice people did to her,and now she is a born again christian helping to stop abortion!

What does this have to do with this thread?

Did you tell everyone a little history of these individuals that you claim have facts?
You just want to believe they are telling you the truth so badly you can just taste it,but sorry to be the first to tell you this,they lied!

So if someone disagrees with what you want the world to be, it must be a lie. Just find me some historians that can show the Israelites were slaves of Egypt and then we can compare to see what evidence they used. Otherwise you are just making up fake suthorities.

Quath

 

[Guest]

Re: israel

So you can pick and choose who you think are true christians huh?[/quote]
To me a Christian is one that professes to follow Jesus and follows most of the New Testament.

:angel: If they follow the New Testament,they don't hate the jew's do they?
Yes,I'll get you the websites so you may study and learn for yourself. I have no use for lies,amen.
I am just saying that black people don't know all their heritage,and have a much more difficult time tracing their roots and finding their family tree's even still to this very day,and the jew's don't. The Jew's know their roots and their heritage better than most people. They did a great job of recording their family tree's as well as history,and the Bible goes along with it.When you study history and the Bible,side by side,you find that they support one another.
Know Q', people disagree with me all the time,and I can expect that,it's part of the times we are in,it's nothing personal to me. I just know that unless that source truly is a christian,or someone who is supportive of God,then their opinions are most likely biased,and if history doesn't support all their claims,then you know they are not to be trusted. We all learn history differently it appears,but I am someone that likes to study history together with the bible.

 

[Quath]

Re: israel

If they follow the New Testament,they don't hate the jew's do they?

Some do. They see the parts where the Jews voted to kill Jesus and they hate the Jews for it. Many call the Jews "Christ Killers." So you can follow the NT and still hate anyone. The Bible does not show morality since any issue can be proven and disprove with the Bible.

I am just saying that black people don't know all their heritage,and have a much more difficult time tracing their roots and finding their family tree's even still to this very day,and the jew's don't. The Jew's know their roots and their heritage better than most people. They did a great job of recording their family tree's as well as history,and the Bible goes along with it.When you study history and the Bible,side by side,you find that they support one another.

So the problem is we have a very good record of the Egyptians and their history. They were very good record keepers and there is no place in history the Israelites could have been Egyptian slaves with what we know about Egypt. So maybe they knew a lot of the lineage, but they got confused about some stories passed down generation to generation.

Know Q', people disagree with me all the time,and I can expect that,it's part of the times we are in,it's nothing personal to me. I just know that unless that source truly is a christian,or someone who is supportive of God,then their opinions are most likely biased,and if history doesn't support all their claims,then you know they are not to be trusted. We all learn history differently it appears,but I am someone that likes to study history together with the bible.

So what you are saying is if someone doesn't say what you believe to be true, then it can not be true.

The good thing about a lot of this is you can check it out and see for youself. So far the Jewish/Christian response was that Egypt was so embarassed about what God did, they erased everything from their history. Now that may make some people sleep better at night, but it is unrealistic and is not supported.

Quath