Faith and Reason

[humble soul]

Both are important. Don't abandon reason altogether. You might say don't abandon it at all.
I remember one piece of advice " believe first, then use reason ." Maybe there was more detail. I can't remember.
I know the Enlightenment period saw a serious challenge to Christianity. People started questioning faith. But the problem was Science became the new religion .
Which seems to me to say, we need something or someone to believe.
I would never choose Science over the God of Israel. But I still value our reasoning faculty. Because we need to avoid cults. And becoming sheep. Sheep who have stopped questioning.

 

[Tessa]

I agree Himble. We should always be searching. There is a danger of standing still and getting too comfortable. We have to search our own hearts too.
I agree that science, although has helped humanity, has caused many problems too.

 

[Who Me]

Most people associate faith with blind believe, but that is not how the Bible describes faith.
Hebrews says it is being confident, of being certain of what we are hoping for.

So faith and reason to hand in hand. We do not just believe in Jesus, like some people believe there lottery ticket will win.
We know that Jesus loved, died, was burried and rose from the dead.

If one does not know this, just what is one hoping for?

 

[dashboardchic19]

I struggle with this. My brain can’t help but use reason always, that’s why I struggle with so much doubt. I always want scientific proof of everything.

 

[Link1983]

Both are important. Don't abandon reason altogether. You might say don't abandon it at all.
I remember one piece of advice " believe first, then use reason ." Maybe there was more detail. I can't remember.
I know the Enlightenment period saw a serious challenge to Christianity. People started questioning faith. But the problem was Science became the new religion .
Which seems to me to say, we need something or someone to believe.
I would never choose Science over the God of Israel. But I still value our reasoning faculty. Because we need to avoid cults. And becoming sheep. Sheep who have stopped questioning.

I agree! And reason is only to be trusted if we put God before it.
If not it will probably device us all.
Like the teachings of science and evolution does.
Separating God from creation.

I like to find out how science can correspond with the Bible..
They are not separate to me.
Rather intertwined..

 

[Link1983]

I struggle with this. My brain can’t help but use reason always, that’s why I struggle with so much doubt. I always want scientific proof of everything.

Can't we reason with God?
If He created the world and the mind.
We should be able to have faith that corresponds with reason..
If you understand what I mean..

 

[Link1983]

Bring all the tithes (the tenth) into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you [so great] a blessing until there is no more room to receive it. Then I will rebuke the devourer (insects, plague) for your sake and he will not destroy the fruits of the ground, nor will your vine in the field drop its grapes [before harvest],” says the Lord of hosts. “All nations shall call you happy and blessed, for you shall be a land of delight,” says the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 3:10‭-‬12 AMP

God's Word works! It is not empty words without meaning.
They are powerful and effective!
Shalom!

 

[Link1983]

I agree Himble. We should always be searching. There is a danger of standing still and getting too comfortable. We have to search our own hearts too.
I agree that science, although has helped humanity, has caused many problems too.

since you seek [forensic] proof that Christ is speaking in and through me. He is not weak or ineffective in dealing with you, but powerful within you. For even though He was crucified in weakness [yielding Himself], yet He lives [resurrected] by the power of God [His Father]. For we too are weak in Him [as He was humanly weak], yet we are alive and well [in fellowship] with Him because of the power of God directed toward you. Test and evaluate yourselves to see whether you are in the faith and living your lives as [committed] believers. Examine yourselves [not me]! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves [by an ongoing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test and are rejected as counterfeit? We are glad when we are weak [since God’s power comes freely through us], but you [by comparison] are strong. We also pray for this, that you be made complete [fully restored, growing and maturing in godly character and spirit—pleasing your heavenly Father by the life you live]. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Corinthians 13:3‭-‬5‭, ‬9‭, ‬14 AMP

I am on scripture today.. ??

 

[Who Me]

I struggle with this. My brain can’t help but use reason always, that’s why I struggle with so much doubt. I always want scientific proof of everything.

May I suggest you get and read Lee Strobel the Case for Christ. As an atheist he investigated Jesus, talking to the leading experts in every field that is relevent to proving Jesus did live, die, be burried and raised to life.
So the only evidence is the Bible and how accurate it is.


Science has nothing to say on the resurrection. As scientists have not been there when a body was raised to life.

 

[Couppy]

I believe that we cannot have faith unless we reason first. When we hear the gospel, the first thing is that our mind is trying to understand and reason with the person. It is only when we believe what the person is saying that we put our faith in God. Our mind does not go blank when we hear the word of God, even after becoming a Christian. We think about the word of God taught us and how it applies to us.

 

[Who Me]

I like to find out how science can correspond with the Bible..

What many people, scientists included do not realise is that science as a know it, is totally dependent on Christianity.

Christianity encourages people to look and investigate what they believe and why, this naturally spills over into the natural world.
It is the Christian believeth at a rational, moral and consistent God created everything and that his characteristics can be seen in creation.
The universe is consistent, it is rational, that is can be explained.

No other belief system outside of Judeo-Christianity states this, they all do not permit investigation or do not support a consistent universe.

So it follows that any scientific explanation that is not inline with the Bible is false eg evolution.

 

[dashboardchic19]

May I suggest you get and read Lee Strobel the Case for Christ. As an atheist he investigated Jesus, talking to the leading experts in every field that is relevent to proving Jesus did live, die, be burried and raised to life.
So the only evidence is the Bible and how accurate it is.


Science has nothing to say on the resurrection. As scientists have not been there when a body was raised to life.

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll have to check that out

 

[Link1983]

What many people, scientists included do not realise is that science as a know it, is totally dependent on Christianity.

Christianity encourages people to look and investigate what they believe and why, this naturally spills over into the natural world.
It is the Christian believeth at a rational, moral and consistent God created everything and that his characteristics can be seen in creation.
The universe is consistent, it is rational, that is can be explained.

No other belief system outside of Judeo-Christianity states this, they all do not permit investigation or do not support a consistent universe.

So it follows that any scientific explanation that is not inline with the Bible is false eg evolution.

True!
And judeo-Christianity. Is pretty much as Christianity.. right?
The big bang for example. If it did happen that way. How does it exclude God? It is more reasonable to believe in a creator than to believe that everything came from nothing!
Like the atheist's teach..

 

[Link1983]

I love this documentary! He is a scientist and also a Christian.
Explains the likelihood of a creation. With pure science and facts!
Highly recommended!

 

[Who Me]

I love this documentary! He is a scientist and also a Christian.
Explains the likelihood of a creation. With pure science and facts!
Highly recommended!

Yes he is a Christian, but he compromises what the Bible says to allow belief in evolution etc.

 

[Serving Zion]

I remember one piece of advice " believe first, then use reason ."

I've heard that sort of thing before and I would advise against it. I know that the truth always makes sense, and if something is true but it doesn't make sense, then there is only some misunderstanding going on that can be cleared up when the mind has understood the truth - thus, questions need to be asked, and the thought processes investigated!

I think it's really dangerous to believe something that doesn't make sense, and that's for a couple of reasons:

1. How can you be sure that the idea is true if you don't understand it? When you commit to believing something, then you are in fact committing your will to defending that thing as truth! .. therefore, it is in fact the action of subverting truth and prejudicing a person's judgment.
2. If a person commits to believing something and goes on to build other beliefs and philosophies upon that belief, then later comes to realise that the belief is flawed - then all other beliefs that depend upon that belief are at risk of collapsing. The person is then ensnared by their belief system (and any reputation or other commitment that has come about through that belief system) - they are being held ransom by the belief and therefore begin searching for any way to keep their belief system while attacking the cause of doubt. In effect, they are becoming opposers of the truth and are empowering the devil (the father of lies) by giving over their soul to work deceit through the cleverness of their mind (Ephesians 4:14, Ephesians 4:17-19).

Besides, Jesus has said "seek and you shall find, ask and it will be given to you, knock and the door will be opened to you" - if someone else is saying the opposite, then they really are representing a spirit that would stop you from doing what Jesus advises us to do: "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free".

 

[iLOVE]

Daniel 3:24-26​

​

New King James Version​

​

24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his [a]counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”

25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the[b] Son of God.”

Nebuchadnezzar Praises God​

26 Then Nebuchadnezzar went near the [c]mouth of the burning fiery furnace and spoke, saying, “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, servants of the Most High God, come out, and come here.” Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego came from the midst of the fire.

We live Faith and Truth, and not facts and reasoning (the world's standards)!

 

[Hospes]

When I read about or hear people speak of Reason and Science, I get this notion they are talking about god-like things. "Believe the science", "Trust the science", "Believe in reason", "Science denier!" etc. are all religious statements. I also notice we treat the science "experts" as priest-like beings, accepting whatever they say as big-T Truth.

Reason is a verb; it's something you do. Some do it better than others. Science is a process for modeling our natural world. In my experience, any field of "hard" science - i.e. a field in which a proposed scientific model may be verified by reproducible experimentation - is in a constant state of evolving as new data comes to light. I have spent a career in the sciences and we try very hard to use good reasoning. Science and reason are not god-like beings, but rather science is quite fluid, reason is quite prone to human error/prejudice, and the worth of both is totally dependent on sound and complete data. To build one's life on either is a fool's errand.

Finally, to juxtapose faith and reason as if they are antithetical is like juxtaposing a frog and an orange and saying they are antithetical.

 

[humble soul]

Finally, to juxtapose

Big words I don't understand not allowed on my threads

 

[jasonc]

Big words I don't understand not allowed on my threads

switch in place