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Bible Study Faith without works

JLB

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Jesus taught, YES it is a work.

Jesus responded and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.
John 6:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:29&version=DLNT

Now a question:

According to Jesus, is believing in Christ a work of:
1. Man
2. God
3. The Devil
4. None of the above
5. 1 and 2



Believing in Him and even confessing Him is not a ritual.
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29



1. Man


Believing/obeying is the work of man.


Man needs God’s Grace to believe/obey, but it is nevertheless up to man whether to believe or not.




JLB
 
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Jesus taught, YES it is a work.

Jesus responded and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.
John 6:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:29&version=DLNT

Now a question:

According to Jesus, is believing in Christ a work of:
1. Man
2. God
3. The Devil
4. None of the above
5. 1 and 2



Believing in Him and even confessing Him is not a ritual.
This is where I get confused. People say that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, that it is a gift from God, yet there IS something we must do to earn salvation... Doesn't that seem strange?

The answer to your question is number 5. I am assuming your argument will be that the answer is number 2, if so, then God chooses people to go to Hell, because He couldn't bother saving them. Doesn't make sense, does it?

I disagree. Telling someone to confess Jesus with their lips is a ritual. No different from bringing an animal to the alter and sacrificing it for our sins. Not sure why you don't think it is? Same with water baptism. Both of these things are suppose to be rituals that 'sanctify' us to God, and after doing them we are saved. This, however, isn't what Jesus taught.

He never said for us to do a once and for all show of our faith to be saved, rather He says that we must endure to the end, abide in His branch, and keep His commandments.

Church traditions have really taken over what use to be all about Jesus, into their own rituals to replace good-ole child like faith in Jesus.

In peace
 

chessman

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The answer to your question is number 5. I am assuming your argument will be that the answer is number 2
  • #2 is what Jesus said. “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.
Some people believe Him, some don’t.
God chooses people to go to Hell
Jesus didn’t say God chooses people to go the Hell.
Doesn't make sense, does it?
Why a disciple of Jesus would think Jesus said; ‘This is the work of Man: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth” doesn’t make sense, no.

Not sure why you don't think it is?
Because it’s not. A ritual is a series of worship actions. Confessing “Jesus is Lord” is...well... a confession.
 

WIP

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This is where I get confused. People say that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, that it is a gift from God, yet there IS something we must do to earn salvation... Doesn't that seem strange?
The word "earn" implies that payment is given based on the work done per a contract, either verbal or written. Do you think God is contractually obligated to save us based on something we do?
 

wondering

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To say faith without works is dead is the same as saying faith without love is dead for the works we do unto the Lord is our labor of love for others as in Matthew 25:34-40. It's the same labor of love Christ has for us. Faith is action and if it has no fruit it is a false faith. James is not speaking about one who has faith, but one who claims to have faith. It's like giving lip service, but the heart is empty and void of God. Just because one claims to have faith doesn't mean they do, especially if there is no fruit to judge in them as that is how we judge one another, Matthew 7:15-23. We are saved by faith (Christ Jesus) through that of Gods grace (favor) as we can not earn it, but confess it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Great post.
Well said.

Some these days speak of James saying that it's the difference between men seeing our faith and God seeing our faith. Quite honestly, I'm not even sure what that means.

We are saved for God...not for men. Men cannot save us.

Anyway, thanks for a great post!
 

wondering

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Love being a verb describes our actions towards another as being obedient to God's commands and statures. Faith, being a noun is that of Christ found in us when we are in Christ and He in us as His light shines through us. The works we do are the continued works of the Lord and nothing we do from self as self will boast and have its own rewards.
By "works of self" do you mean the works of the law?
(without faith)

IOW, we could work all we want to and still not be saved.
Works under the law do not save us.

But once we ARE saved, works become imperative. We work because this is what a Christian is supposed to do....Ephesians 2:10.

We work because God said so and we are faithful to obey.
 

wondering

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Is believing in Jesus by confessing Him with our lips considered a work? If not, then can I still be saved if I didn't do that ritual?

In peace
What is a work to you?
Many are saved that don't even know about that ritual.

Also, what do you mean by "confessing" Him?
 

wondering

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amen - that for sure is the answer but practically speaking how would we explain to someone who is struggling with sin to walk in the Spirit?

would we tell them to lean on God instead of themselves?

pray more?

don't take a step without asking God what to do?

just thinking out loud here

i'm trying to think of how to simply and clearly explain to someone how to start being lead by the Spirit

i usually say run to God not away from Him when you sin

have an honest heart to heart talk with God to find out what is the stumbling block

etc

but then some people say the do not know how to hear from God - so maybe that is the first step?
God knows our heart.
If we struggle with some particular sin but are sorry for it and ask forgiveness, God will be just and forgive us our sin.
1 John 1....

I always like to tell persons that if they are aware of the sin and are struggling with it, they cannot be lost if the N.T. is telling us the truth.

It's those persons who feel they are very secure in their salvation and feel nothing they do can take it away that worry me. I hear people say this --- and they cannot be persuaded otherwise.

Very dangerous ground to be on.
Mathew 7:24-27

Sometimes I just don't understand if we're all reading the same bible.
 

wondering

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  • #2 is what Jesus said. “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.
Some people believe Him, some don’t. Jesus didn’t say God chooses people to go the Hell.

Why a disciple of Jesus would think Jesus said; ‘This is the work of Man: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth” doesn’t make sense, no.


Because it’s not. A ritual is a series of worship actions. Confessing “Jesus is Lord” is...well... a confession.
Walking up to an altar to confess Jesus and "accept" Him as Savior has become a ritual. Some could stand right where they are and it could still be a real spiritual experience. Just like it could not be a spiritual experience at all, but just doing something someone expects you to do.

As far as God's work...
If God's work is to make us believe, then you are expousing a calvinist idea. Is this what you intend to do?
 

wondering

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This is where I get confused. People say that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, that it is a gift from God, yet there IS something we must do to earn salvation... Doesn't that seem strange?

The answer to your question is number 5. I am assuming your argument will be that the answer is number 2, if so, then God chooses people to go to Hell, because He couldn't bother saving them. Doesn't make sense, does it?

I disagree. Telling someone to confess Jesus with their lips is a ritual. No different from bringing an animal to the alter and sacrificing it for our sins. Not sure why you don't think it is? Same with water baptism. Both of these things are suppose to be rituals that 'sanctify' us to God, and after doing them we are saved. This, however, isn't what Jesus taught.

He never said for us to do a once and for all show of our faith to be saved, rather He says that we must endure to the end, abide in His branch, and keep His commandments.

Church traditions have really taken over what use to be all about Jesus, into their own rituals to replace good-ole child like faith in Jesus.

In peace
What is it that we could do to be saved??
 

chessman

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As far as God's work...
If God's work is to make us believe, then you are expousing a calvinist idea. Is this what you intend to do?

Nope. Just answering the question (with Biblical evidence); “Is believing in Jesus by confessing Him with our lips considered a work?” Then asking another question:

Jesus taught, YES it is a work.

Jesus responded and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.John 6:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:29&version=DLNT

Now a question:

According to Jesus, is believing in Christ a work of:
1. Man
2. God
3. The Devil
4. None of the above
5. 1 and 2
What’s your answer ⬆?

Great post.
Well said.
I agree. I thought/think the OP is great and well said too. Does that make me and you a FHGlory-ist???

If God's work is to make us believe,
If ???

This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.John 6:29

Because I believe that it truly is God’s work that I am believing, does that make me a Jesus-ist or a Calvin-ist???

And what does it mean for those that do NOT believe that it is God’s work that they are believing??? Are they NOT Jesus-ist???
 

wondering

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Nope. Just answering the question (with Biblical evidence); “Is believing in Jesus by confessing Him with our lips considered a work?” Then asking another question:



What’s your answer ⬆?

I agree. I thought/think the OP is great and well said too. Does that make me and you a FHGlory-ist???

If ???

This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.John 6:29

Because I believe that it truly is God’s work that I am believing, does that make me a Jesus-ist or a Calvin-ist???

And what does it mean for those that do NOT believe that it is God’s work that they are believing??? Are they NOT Jesus-ist???
This post brings out a lot of ideas.
I don't consider confessing Jesus is Lord is a work.
Is loving our spouse a work?

I use the word work and deeds so we could talk,,, but I don't think of doing for God as a "work"...to me it's just being obedient and doing what He would want me to do - even though at times I don't for one reason or another. And this stunts me a little, doesn't it? If we do immediately what God wants,,,He sends us all the more grace to do even more. If we stop....then He necessarily has to stop too; until we can get going again. The Holy Spirit helps us...He doesn't DO for us (which some Christians seem to believe nowadays).

What's my answer?
God reveals Himself to us.
It's up to US to accept Him or not.

If you believe it's God bringing you to belief, then it's a calvin-ist. For them God does EVERYTHING...it's all predestined. We Christians that are not calvinist believe that it's the work of the Holy Spirit to help us along --- but we have the free will to listen to Him or not....to follow Him or stop following Him. If GOD wants to do something, HE DOES IT...which means that if it's God keeping your belief, then yes, it's calvin-istic.

I'm putting John 6:29 on a different post.
It's more complicated. I need my bibles....
 

wondering

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chessman

John 6:26-33
26Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
30So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?
31“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”


The work of God is to believe in the One whom He has sent.

God does the work of doing what is necessary to feed man and to save man. At the time of Moses God sent the manna from heaven. At the time of Jesus, God sent the TRUE bread of Life, which is Jesus. God did His work by sending Jesus to us so that we could believe in Him and have access to heaven.

God gives us the commandment to believe in Jesus, and if we believe in Him and keep His commandments, we abide in Him.
John 3:23-24
23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


My NASB sends me to Revelation 2:26, which is the same idea.
26
‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;

Basically, Jesus is saying that we are to believe in Him because HE is God's work, and this will please God.
 

chessman

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I'm putting John 6:29 on a different post.
It's more complicated.
Not really.

Jesus said:
“This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”

Then simply asking someone the question; Is believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth a work of God or a work of Man? is not that complicated of a question, IMO. What seems to complicate things is mentioning Calvinist.
 

JLB

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Not really.

Jesus said:
“This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”

Then simply asking someone the question; Is believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth a work of God or a work of Man? is not that complicated of a question, IMO. What seems to complicate things is mentioning Calvinist.
Answered. Now what?


Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29



1. Man


Believing/obeying is the work of man.


Man needs God’s Grace to believe/obey, but it is nevertheless up to man whether to believe or not.




JLB
 

chessman

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Walking up to an altar to confess Jesus and "accept" Him as Savior has become a ritual.
Maybe to some, but that’s not the Biblical (or English) meaning of a “ritual”.

I heard a statistic the other day that’s related, I think. How many times (on average) would you guess that a Southern Baptist Church member in the US gets baptized?
 

JohnDB

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Speaking in the Ancient Near East was not a "work". It was talking.
Works were productive activities that produced results. (Farming, acts of kindness, and granting permission to others)

Works can best be described as a reaction to belief that reflects the gratitude of the believer.
 

JLB

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Jesus taught, YES it is a work.

Jesus responded and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.
John 6:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:29&version=DLNT

Now a question:

According to Jesus, is believing in Christ a work of:
1. Man
2. God
3. The Devil
4. None of the above
5. 1 and 2



Believing in Him and even confessing Him is not a ritual.
Could you please answer your own question, so we can know where you stand?




According to Jesus, is believing in Christ a work of:
1. Man
2. God
3. The Devil
4. None of the above
5. 1 and 2





JLB
 

chessman

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Speaking in the Ancient Near East was not a "work". It was talking.
True today as well. But then cofessing “Jesus is Lord” with your mouth could and did get people’s hands and feet nailed to a cross. Whereas now it gets you laughed at in the USA and thrown in jail in China and other countries.
 

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