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Bible Study For anyone who doubts

for_his_glory

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So Paul when in 2Cor 14:14 etc says if Christ is not risen then there is no Christianity. (parapharase)
He is totaly wrong.
When atheists discribe faith as wishfull thinking they are right.

May I siggest you have a look at the various creed statements.
They All say, I believe in..... and go on to talk about historical factual events.
None are about imaginary things.
There is no 2 Corinthians 14:14. Not sure what scripture you are pertaining to, but if God would have not raised Christ on the third day then that would have made Jesus a liar and there would be no Christianity. It was when the first Gentile church founded in Antioch that these disciples of Christ were first called Christians, Acts 11:20, 21. It was from Antioch that Paul started his missionary journeys.

Are you really going to believe what an atheist says about faith when they do not even believe in the God of all creation!!!

The "Apostles Creed", which by the way has nothing to do with the Apostles writing it, and the four other Creeds that also includes "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church is just a man made statement of what one believes. Creeds have no teaching value to them, but only states a system of belief. There is no historical details in their beliefs, but just that of what they believe like any religion.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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There is no 2 Corinthians 14:14. Not sure what scripture you are pertaining to, but if God would have not raised Christ on the third day then that would have made Jesus a liar and there would be no Christianity. It was when the first Gentile church founded in Antioch that these disciples of Christ were first called Christians, Acts 11:20, 21. It was from Antioch that Paul started his missionary journeys.

Are you really going to believe what an atheist says about faith when they do not even believe in the God of all creation!!!

The "Apostles Creed", which by the way has nothing to do with the Apostles writing it, and the four other Creeds that also includes "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church is just a man made statement of what one believes. Creeds have no teaching value to them, but only states a system of belief. There is no historical details in their beliefs, but just that of what they believe like any religion.





I'm not a hundred percent certain about everything you are saying but the reason why I kept my mouth shut is I knew that sooner or later that somebody would set him straight. I honestly don't know where he is getting all this rubbish from,.. but it definitely isn't from scripture. Even I know that.
 

for_his_glory

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What happened this hour (or past hour) that I missed? Did something actually happen or are you speaking figuratively? :confused
No, I am speaking literally. Look at all the disasters happening in the world, including America as we are not exempt from disasters. Wars and rumor of wars, nation against nation. Famines, pestilences and earthquakes where there have never been any before. Those who are Christ own being afflicted and killed for the sake of Christ. False prophets rising up everywhere and the love of many becoming cold towards others. Things like this when seen by their own eyes can strike fear in the hearts of man/woman that can cause many to have doubt that God even exist as they have very little faith because they do not allow faith to grow in Christ because doubt clouds the mind.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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No, I am speaking literally. Look at all the disasters happening in the world, including America as we are not exempt from disasters. Wars and rumor of wars, nation against nation. Famines, pestilences and earthquakes where there have never been any before. Those who are Christ own being afflicted and killed for the sake of Christ. False prophets rising up everywhere and the love of many becoming cold towards others. Things like this when seen by their own eyes can strike fear in the hearts of man/woman that can cause many to have doubt that God even exist as they have very little faith because they do not allow faith to grow in Christ because doubt clouds the mind.



Oh I see, when you put it like that you make a good valid point actually.
 

for_his_glory

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or to believe the devils lie that one must just have faith.
Are these two scriptures the devils lie? Kinda looks like all we need is faith, which is Christ Jesus who is the free gift from God by His grace to whosoever believes in Him.

Ephesians 28 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

for_his_glory

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Ever told an atheist all they need is faith?
Ever answered a serious question with, 'All you need is faith'?

The first will get you rightly laughed at.
The second does not help anyone with questions or doubts, yet on other forums you'll see deconversion stories where that has been the answer to serious faith problems.

That is why to say 'All you need is Faith' is a lie direct from the devil, something no Christian will ever say.
If one is not taught what faith is then it just becomes a word without any meaning.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The faith of Christ, (KJV - John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9), is where we find faith in Christ. The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ. There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth. Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

The Son of God is that free gift of God's grace given to all who will believe by faith in Christ and confess Him as Lord and Savior so they will see the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10. There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift. Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Faith works come after we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that empowers us to go out into the world and continue in the good works of the Lord, Acts 2:37, 38; James 2:14-20. The good works are taking His Gospel message to the world as we too are His disciples and to love and help those in need as what we do we do unto the glory of the Lord Christ Jesus, Matthew 25:31-40
 

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There is no 2 Corinthians 14:14. Not sure what scripture you are pertaining to, but if God would have not raised Christ on the third day then that would have made Jesus a liar and there would be no Christianity. It was when the first Gentile church founded in Antioch that these disciples of Christ were first called Christians, Acts 11:20, 21. It was from Antioch that Paul started his missionary journeys.

Are you really going to believe what an atheist says about faith when they do not even believe in the God of all creation!!!

The "Apostles Creed", which by the way has nothing to do with the Apostles writing it, and the four other Creeds that also includes "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church is just a man made statement of what one believes. Creeds have no teaching value to them, but only states a system of belief. There is no historical details in their beliefs, but just that of what they believe like any religion.
Sorry yes I miss quoted 1 Cor 15.

re atheists, I'm referring to talking about Christianity and making a case for Christianity. There one has to make a reasoned and reasdonable explanation for what and why one believes. In such a circumstance to say that 'all one needs is to have faith' is laughable and unreasonable.

Whether you believe the creeds is upto you, I referred to them for one reason. They talk about historical events not blind faith.
'Holt Catholic Church' can be taken to refer to the RC or to the universal church or to the universal Christian faith.
 

WIP

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~I agrre whole heartedly that we need to be taught what faith is.
Faith is not blind believe.
Could you please expand on what you wrote here? If I understand you correctly, you're saying that it is impossible to have faith without being able to have tangible proof.

When I read Hebrews 11:1, it sure sounds like blind belief. Things hoped for are not tangible in the moment. Things not seen are also not tangible in the moment.

Hebrews 11:1 NKJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 

for_his_glory

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~I agrre whole heartedly that we need to be taught what faith is.
Faith is not blind believe.
Did Jesus or the Apostles make a case for Christianity, no. Jesus simply said "I am" and the Apostles testified of "I AM" and what He taught making disciples of others.

Have you ever seen God or Jesus face to face, no, so it is by blind faith being the tangible of that which we hope for as faith is the evidence of knowing the attributes of Christ in our renewed inner man. Read Hebrews 11:1-31 as each verse starts with blind faith.
 

for_his_glory

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Sorry yes I miss quoted 1 Cor 15.

re atheists, I'm referring to talking about Christianity and making a case for Christianity. There one has to make a reasoned and reasdonable explanation for what and why one believes. In such a circumstance to say that 'all one needs is to have faith' is laughable and unreasonable.

Whether you believe the creeds is upto you, I referred to them for one reason. They talk about historical events not blind faith.
'Holt Catholic Church' can be taken to refer to the RC or to the universal church or to the universal Christian faith.
Why would we need any creed written by man to show us historical facts when it is already written in the scriptures. The RC is the Catholic church as in Roman Catholic Church who have historically persecuted and put to death those who are of Christ who followed Him in blind faith.
 

for_his_glory

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Doubt is flat out unbelief as one tries to believe with a carnal mind, but neglect having the Spiritual mind of Christ in order to believe all things of the Spirit of God. They say I know what the Bible tells me so, but yet I have doubt.

Example is found in Mark 9:14-29. When this father brought his son to Jesus disciples to heal him, as he had a dumb spirit, they tried to cast this spirit out, but it would not leave the child. The disciples, not yet indwelled with the Holy Spirit, asked Jesus why they could not heal the child and Jesus told them it was because they did not pray and fast first. Other words they were not equipped. They were trying to cast out this spirit basically with a carnal mind of thinking they could and this caused doubt in them when they couldn't.

The father ended up taking his son to Jesus, probably with a certain amount of doubt, and Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

We should never doubt if we first began to believe. Doubt is a sin of unbelief and if you are doubting it's because Satan is trying to steal your faith.
 

Nathan12

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So then, are you trying to say if I called on the name of Jesus and believed I could, then I could push Mount Everest a crossed the country?
What that means is that with God nothing is impossible, and one can believe God for impossibilities (not absurdities).
 

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Did Jesus or the Apostles make a case for Christianity, no. Jesus simply said "I am" and the Apostles testified of "I AM" and what He taught making disciples of others.

Have you ever seen God or Jesus face to face, no, so it is by blind faith being the tangible of that which we hope for as faith is the evidence of knowing the attributes of Christ in our renewed inner man. Read Hebrews 11:1-31 as each verse starts with blind faith.
Jesus presented his miracles and himself.
The disciples taught about the resurrection, about the historical facts of God in the OT and the miracles they did.

Believing faith for them was not blind but based on the truth, or the fact of the resurrection.
 

for_his_glory

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Believing faith for them was not blind but based on the truth, or the fact of the resurrection.
Of course it wasn't blind faith for the disciples as it was face to face with Jesus. What the disciples knew of history is from their forefathers before them as Moses wrote it all down in what is known as the Torah. We are not blinded to truth as we can look up historical events in the scriptures, but yet it takes faith to believe all that has been written is true.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Definition of blind faith is belief without true understanding, perception or discrimination.

What is blinded is that which we have not seen, but yet we believe by faith as all we need is faith, which is Christ Jesus.
 

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Of course it wasn't blind faith for the disciples as it was face to face with Jesus. What the disciples knew of history is from their forefathers before them as Moses wrote it all down in what is known as the Torah. We are not blinded to truth as we can look up historical events in the scriptures, but yet it takes faith to believe all that has been written is true.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Definition of blind faith is belief without true understanding, perception or discrimination.

What is blinded is that which we have not seen, but yet we believe by faith as all we need is faith, which is Christ Jesus.
As I understand you you agree that faith is a belief that is based on historical facts.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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As I understand you you agree that faith is a belief that is based on historical facts.




Yes that's true if you're talking about the facts that Jesus was born, He lived, and He died. Faith comes into the picture when we trust the fact that He rose from the grave and He is who He claimed to be. :cross
 

for_his_glory

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As I understand you you agree that faith is a belief that is based on historical facts.
Faith is complete trust or confidence in something or someone. We have historical facts written in the scriptures, but yet faith is in those things we hope for, the evidence of things not seen, Hebrews11:1. The Prophets never saw the face of God, but yet heard Him speak to them. We can hear God speak to us even today.

The disciples were face to face with Jesus, but only knew Him as a Prophet sent by God. The disciples have a one-up on us as they saw Jesus after He was raised from the grave in His glorified body with their own eyes. They heard Jesus speak and literally saw Him face to face.

We have never seen the face of God nor the face of Christ, which makes it blind faith, but yet we can hear Him speak to us in that which we hope for and by Him speaking to us is the evidence of that which we can not see.
 

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