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Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

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This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !
 
Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

This teaching of man's freewill in the matter of Salvation is not just of those who loudly proclaim it, but even to those in the reformed faiths, who in the final analysis, make faith and or repentance, the basis for a man's Justification before God. Even if it is supposedly God given Faith. Hence any that attribute any part of Justification in part or in whole to what man does is an Idolater and it does not matter who it is and what their credentials or reputation may be. Even though they may say the right things , like salvation by grace, election and new birth, yet they worship themselves, mans freewill ultimately is what determines if one is saved or lost, what man does or not do, it never fails. When all is said and done, freewill religionists makes man his own savior, and that is what I believe the text is saying, it is the exaltation of man. Freewill religion is a form of will worship as per Col 2:23

23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

This will worship is ethelothrēskia and it means:


voluntary, arbitrary worship

a) worship which one prescribes and devises for himself, contrary to the contents and nature of faith which ought to be directed to Christ

b) said of the misdirected zeal and the practice of ascetics

Its self made religion, not according to Faith and what has been revealed.

This is the religion of cain. Cain instead of by Faith making an offering to God that was accepted, he instead, did what he thought or believed to be acceptable to God. It was his own self made worship, and no doubt done in sincerity and his best the fruit of the ground could offer. This is exactly what the freewillers are doing today, rejecting the revelation of scripture of how Justification and Salvation is wrought by the lamb of God, and do that which is right in their own eyes. Prov 14:22

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

There own self made religions, why you think its so many different suasions ?

Will worship is also the worship of ourselves. Did not The serpent tell Eve, that she could be as God !! Gen 3:5

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Ambition, to be as God. cp Isa 14:14

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yes, this is what fuels freewill religion ! The word God in Gen 3:5 is the same exact word as in Gen 1:1

Satan was telling eve she could be, what he himself desired to be, like the Most High !
 
What would you make of the Scripture that says, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Matthew 23:37). Historically Israel resisted God over and over again, and God was pained by it (cf. Psalm 78:41). Wasn't it also Adam & Eve's freewill choice to sin that brought the Fall and sin into the world in the first place? And what about freewill within sincere belief toward God, such as the freewill offerings of the Old Testament? Jesus also surrendered his own will to the Father, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done" (Luke 22:42). By man's freewill we fell into sin, and by Jesus freely submitting His own will to the Father obediently He redeemed man (Adam) from that fall, being the last Adam - a life-giving spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Or are you talking about something different altogether?
 
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I fully understand your post SBG, and you are bold, Those who see would be held to greater judgment than those who don't I assume. My point would be let us be wise as serpents but gentle as a Lamb. They are enemies for the Gospels sake but beloved for God's sake. Why is that?
 
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Will worship is also the worship of ourselves. Did not The serpent tell Eve, that she could be as God !! Gen 3:5

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Ambition, to be as God. cp Isa 14:14

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

You are correct in that the peril certainly lies in pride to think one's self equal to God, as Satan did. Nonetheless even Jesus acknowledged the divine image of God in all of us (as it was from the very beginning - Genesis 1:27) when Jesus said, asking the Jewish leaders why they objected that he called himself the Son of God, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are 'gods''" (John 10:34). Paul even says to the unbelieving Gentiles, "for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children'" (Acts 17:28). In other words all men are the children of God in a particular sense (not in the spiritually-rebirthed sense for salvation however), but in virtue of us being created by God in His image - hence all are children of God by their very created nature. It is that nature in us that can lead to one of two responses: (1) Pride, leading one to try to elevate themselves to be like God, or (2) Humble submission to God and becoming "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). We are all like God in that we have a sense of morality and right and wong and each have a spirit, which is why we will be without excuse if we reject the clear witness of God to all men (Romans 1:20). As Jesus and Paul illustrated though, we are all tied to God in vitue of Him being our very creator, and us being made in His likeness.
 
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The peril certainly lies in pride to think one's self equal to God as Satan did. Nonetheless even Jesus acknowledged the divine image of God in all of us (as it was from the very beginning - Genesis 1:27) when Jesus said, asking the Jewish leaders why they objected that he called himself the Son of God, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are 'gods''" (John 10:34). Paul even says to the unbelieving Gentiles, "for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children'" (Acts 17:28). In other words all men are the children of God (not in the spiritually-rebirthed sense for salvation however), but in virtue of us being created by God in His image - hence all are children of God by their very created nature. It is that nature in us that can lead to one of two responses: (1) Pride, leading one to elevate themselves to be like God, or (2) Humble submission to God and becoming "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). We are all like God in that we have a sense of morality and right and wong and each have a spirit, which is why we will be without excuse if we reject the clear wintess of God to all men (Romans 1:20). As Jesus illustrated though we are all tied to God in vitue of Him being our very creator, and us being made in His likeness.
God does not have the ability to choose to be good or evil since He is the absolute by which these terms are defined. If freewill is defined as the ability to deny God then you see the dilemna. God would not have a freewill. The proposition that man could deny God and live was the invention of Satan, not God or man.
 
God does not have the ability to choose to be good or evil since He is the absolute by which these terms are defined. If freewill is defined as the ability to deny God then you see the dilemna. God would not have a freewill. The proposition that man could deny God and live was the invention of Satan, not God or man.

I agree with your last sentence as far as Satan's temptation of Eve went, but I'm not following your point. As to "God not having a freewill" though, that would be commiting a semantic/theological fallacy though. If you are pitting "freewill" against say "election" or "predestination" and trying to talk about God in those terms then who predestined or elected God to do what He does? It's absurd to even think in such terms about God, but if He elected Himself then where did He get the will to do so? So perhaps it goes back to your proposition: "If freewill is defined as the ability to deny God then you see the dilema." I never put freewill in such terms, so I do not grant the truthfulness of the proposition, hence there is no problem. :) In fact I even brought up freewill within the confines of belief & faith with the freewill offerings and Jesus' own will. See above where I addressed that.

God Bless,
~Josh
 
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I agree with your last sentence as far as Satan's temptation of Eve went, but I'm not following your point. As to "God not having a freewill" though, that is commiting a semantic fallacy though. If you are pitting "freewill" against say "election" or "predestination" and trying to talk about God in those terms then who predestined or elected God to do what He does? If He elected himself then where did He get the will to do so? So perhaps it goes back to your proposition: "If freewill is defined as the ability to deny God then you see the dilema." I never put freewill in such terms, so I do not grant the truthfulness of the proposition, hence there is no problem. :) In fact I even brought up freewill within belief & faith with the freewill offerings and Jesus' own will. See above where I addressed that.

God Bless,
~Josh
The issue is always defining the terms otherwise we know not what we are agreeing to or denying. The word freewill offerings is actually the adjective Voluntary. Note I did not say definitively that freewill should be defined the way I used it. Under the hypothetical definition do you agree with the proposition?
 
I agree with your last sentence as far as Satan's temptation of Eve went, but I'm not following your point. As to "God not having a freewill" though, that would be commiting a semantic/theological fallacy though. If you are pitting "freewill" against say "election" or "predestination" and trying to talk about God in those terms then who predestined or elected God to do what He does? It's absurd to even think in such terms about God, but if He elected Himself then where did He get the will to do so? So perhaps it goes back to your proposition: "If freewill is defined as the ability to deny God then you see the dilema." I never put freewill in such terms, so I do not grant the truthfulness of the proposition, hence there is no problem. :) In fact I even brought up freewill within the confines of belief & faith with the freewill offerings and Jesus' own will. See above where I addressed that.

God Bless,
~Josh
I am not pitting freewill against predestination. I am saying that the choices people make are according to the character traits of the spirit or spirits that reside in the soul according to ones faith. Hence "the works of your Father you will do" is saying the children of the devil will have his traits and the children of God will have God's traits. This would eliminate the freewill most people believe in. Jesus said the Truth will set you free implying people who sin are slaves to sin also negating freewill as an absolute.
 
I am not pitting freewill against predestination. I am saying that the choices people make are according to the character traits of the spirit or spirits that reside in the soul according to ones faith. Hence "the works of your Father you will do" is saying the children of the devil will have his traits and the children of God will have God's traits. This would eliminate the freewill most people believe in. Jesus said the Truth will set you free implying people who sin are slaves to sin also negating freewill as an absolute.

That is true, except that you have to take into account the possibility of switching from one to the other as Ezekiel 18 details, and making that personal decision to change, and that goes in both directions. But still you make a very good point. However even John says that if we say that we have no sin the truth is not in us, so being a child of God does not mean we no longer have any will of our own to sin. Christians still do sin, but we have an advocate in Jesus when we do to cleanse us from that unrighteousness. If we do not put on the new man daily we will slip into the flesh on occasion, but we must make that daily choice for ourselves.

God Bless,
~Josh
 
Freewill ism, and Legalism and all other ism's is men worshiping themselves, having confidence in their flesh [ Jer 17:5;Phil 3:3], their ability, their decisions, their prudence or wisdom or good behaviour, their freewill. Folks if we have the least degree of confidence in ourselves in this matter of Justification before God, we are lost, and nothing but a Divine Supernatural Intervention of God's Grace can save us. The religion of the beast, no matter what denomination or religious organization will always without fail be manifested to the True Child of Grace, because it will always have a exalted view of man and resting Salvation or Justification before God on what man decides to do. 2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. By insisting that Salvation depends on my will finally instead of God's will.

When a person thinks like that, that Justification and Salvation depends finally on them, what they do, then they usurp the prerogative of God, who alone made the decision within His Eternal Decree and for His own Glory, who is Saved.

2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
Freewill religion or the Man of sin religion will as stated earlier will always have a Pretentious view of Man !

This is True, because even though scripture, God's word declares man in a helpless lost condition, dead in sin, and only evil continually, without the ability to do good, yet men boast of their freewill which denies our total depravity and inability.

The scripture says none doeth good, no not one Ps 14:3

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is repeated in Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is describing all mankind as being born sinners by nature.

Scripture says here that man is filthy by nature, unprofitable , useless or unserviceable.

That word filthy in Ps 14:3 means became morally corrupt. All men by nature are born helplessly morally corrupt, even our religious efforts in that state are corrupt and as filthy stinking rags before God Isa 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

But you know, man by nature cannot and will not submit to this Divine Declaration.

None says the Divine Verdict of fallen man, doeth good. None is exempt ! God is saying, there is absolutely none that acts rightly or that does well.

The WNT
All have turned aside from the right path; they have every one of them become corrupt. There is no one who does what is right--no, not so much as one."

And so because the freewill religion or the man of sin religion does not accept what God says [about mankind] in His word, The Man of sin opposeth what God says:

2 Thess 2:4

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This word opposeth is the greek word antikeimai

to be set over against, opposite to

2) to oppose, be adverse to, withstand


It means to be contrary, withstand the Truth in God's Temple, in the Church, or what supposes to be the Church, the pillar and ground of Truth.

Whenever we oppose God's Truth, we are in fact exalting ourselves over God !

Freewill religion or philosophy is contrary to sound doctrine ! 1 Tim 1:10

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

You see, man's freewill in the matter of Salvation and Justification
before God is contrary to and opposes sound doctrine of the scripture.

So man of sin religion has a pretentious view of man !
 
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

Let me say this lovingly. 'i' see this kind of 'post heading' with the originator of the post at the present time, with a real Jer. 17:5 SERIOUS problem! Some verses include Eccl. 3:14 + Rev. 22 last couple verses of warning!

--Elijah
 
If it's God's will that some believe they have a freewill, by who's will does one try and correct them?:eeeekkk
 
If it's God's will that some believe they have a freewill, by who's will does one try and correct them?:eeeekkk

Lucifer was created perfect as was (very good) Adam, both sinned, one sin was the sin of Psalms 19:13's GREAT TRANSGRESSION. Neither were created as robots! :robot

Maturity was [NOT CREATED], it is a LOVING FREE process, or the opposite. Heb. 5 & Heb. 6. It did & can end either way one freely choices to go. Heb. 6 finds these ones all had been MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!

As did Adam & Eve have on the Garment of Christ's Rightousness,at their beginning. And, yes, not all have started with this required STARTING point of FREE CHOICE to choose Christ's Acts 5:32 plan. John 3:3-8. But, if they had? The POWER to Mature on [IS FREELY SUPPLIED THEM!] Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9.


And again, the Holy Spirit IS STRIVING for all of mankind, yet the opening of the hearts door is man's DECISION to make. (Rev. 3:20 ) Compare even Cain FATAL DECISION in Gen. 4:7 before he had a new DESIRE'S [FULL CLOSED DOOR CUP] of the Sin Against the Holy Spirit's STRIVING with even being given another chance to CHOOSE RIGHTLY!

--Elijah


PS: What is mind boggling to me, are two facts at least.
ONE: This false doctrine believes that Loving WORKS have NOTHING to do with Salvation. And then just check out these ones DESIRE to work? [POST]

Don't try to tell me that satan does not find an rejected of God Cain with a 'hot' DESIRE for one to work for him! (Read Gen. 4:7 again)

Two: Most all here on earth profess some FAITH in a God of some sort. Yet, these ones BELIEVE that their WORKLESS FAITH WITH ONLY AN BELIEF TEACHING saves them, but not these whole masses.

And but few that 'i' know of (over the years!) had ever suggested that God did not know in Eternity how this giving each 'thinking' creation of His the freedom of choice would end up?? Nah. 1:9 + Obad. 1:16

--Elijah
 
Calvinism religion is the Man of Sin !

C A L V I N I S M religion is the man of sin..
 
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That is true, except that you have to take into account the possibility of switching from one to the other as Ezekiel 18 details, and making that personal decision to change, and that goes in both directions. But still you make a very good point. However even John says that if we say that we have no sin the truth is not in us, so being a child of God does not mean we no longer have any will of our own to sin. Christians still do sin, but we have an advocate in Jesus when we do to cleanse us from that unrighteousness. If we do not put on the new man daily we will slip into the flesh on occasion, but we must make that daily choice for ourselves.

God Bless,
~Josh
Sin is of the flesh and is not of our own wills except to the carnal minded. I think the point of this thread is to say that sin is slavery not freedom. This is made apparant by the fact that the carnal mind cannot be subject to God and that we are in need of a saviour.
 
If it's God's will that some believe they have a freewill, by who's will does one try and correct them?:eeeekkk
That's a big IF. According to scripture, God never wanted us to eat of the knowledge of good and evil. It was His desire that we stay innocent of such choices in direction knowing it would be death for corruptible carnal beings.
 
That's a big IF. According to scripture, God never wanted us to eat of the knowledge of good and evil. It was His desire that we stay innocent of such choices in direction knowing it would be death for corruptible carnal beings.
If it's NOT God's will that some believe they have a freewill, by who's will are they deceived?:eeeekkk
 
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