Genesis 9:6

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 9:6 was mentioned in another forum and it got me to study this and I found this and wanted to share it as it changed my mind on Capital punishment as far as the death sentence which I did not believe in. This is my condensed version.

erlc.com/Killing. Are there exceptions

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Do these two scriptures contradict themselves, actually no they do not.

Murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice or forethought. Murder, therefore, is distinguished from killing by the issue of motive.

Jesus identified that motive behind murder as anger in Matthew 5:21, 22. Christ goes to the root of the behavior and sees the anger behind the action. The act of murder is still subject to the punishement in Genesis 9:6.

In Exodus 20:13 God forbids murder as He emphasizes the value of human life because we are all made in His image, but God also shows us that killing doesn't always fall under the category of murder.

Situations where killing is not murder is found in self-defense where one is allowed to protect them self, Exodus 22:2, 3; Nehemiah 4:11-14. Exodus 22:2, 3. If a thief breaks into your house at night time and is struck that he would die there is no blood guilt on the who causes the thief to die. But if it is during the daylight then the punishment of Genesis 9:6 would apply as the thief life was valued . So even after the command in Exodus 20:13 God permits the taking of a life if one's own life is in potential danger. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in scripture, value for human life is the rule.

Capital Punishment

Genesis 9:6 God established capital punishment even before giving the law of "Thou shall not kill" to Moses. The punishment in Genesis 9:6 speaks to the severity of the crime. The taking of a life warrants a punishment as in a death for a death. It's not given for vengeance, but for justice and the role of justice is carried out by one specific office, Romans 13:1-6.

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle.

In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

cool!
have you ever studied the cities of refuge that were established for people who accidentally took a life?
They are a type of Christ, even the names of the cities point to Christ, the person would be safe to live there as long as the high priest was alive (who is our great High Priest?)
Makes for an interesting study.

 

[JohnDB]

Moses killed an Egyptian man for beating another Hebrew... and this made him run away into the wilderness for 40 years.

He threw away a lot with that murder...but God still chose him to lead the Israelites out of bondage.

Then there's Paul...he was right there in the stoning of Stephen.

Then there's me...I killed Jesus. If I hadn't sinned He wouldn't have had to die on the cross.

 

[Christ_empowered]

the death penalty in the US is mostly applied to minorities, people with low IQs, and the poor. Charles Manson ended up dying in prison, while poor, young, minority men who commit far less heinous crimes (many of whom also have inadequate legal represenation, because public defenders are overworked and many of them do.not.care, anyway) end up receiving the death penalty. and so...

if the system worked better, maybe I'd be OK with the death penalty. maybe. I see the point...if you take a life with malice and forethought, your life should be taken. But in the modern legal system, its just not applied appropriately. poor people who are convicted with public defenders end up being killed by the state, while other people with better representation end up taking plea deals to less severe crimes or sometimes they end up in state hospitals, acquitted, etc.

so i vote NO on the death penalty in these United States. :_)

 

[OzSpen]

the death penalty in the US is mostly applied to minorities, people with low IQs, and the poor. Charles Manson ended up dying in prison, while poor, young, minority men who commit far less heinous crimes (many of whom also have inadequate legal represenation, because public defenders are overworked and many of them do.not.care, anyway) end up receiving the death penalty. and so...

if the system worked better, maybe I'd be OK with the death penalty. maybe. I see the point...if you take a life with malice and forethought, your life should be taken. But in the modern legal system, its just not applied appropriately. poor people who are convicted with public defenders end up being killed by the state, while other people with better representation end up taking plea deals to less severe crimes or sometimes they end up in state hospitals, acquitted, etc.

so i vote NO on the death penalty in these United States. :_)

FHG,

Gen 9:6 was never ever a command or covenant for the New Covenant people of God. Gen 9:8-9 (NIV) confirms the audience: 'Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: ‘I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you'.

It was God's covenant with Noah and his descendants and is not applicable in the 21st century for a worldwide audience. If capital punishment is implemented by the criminal law in some nation, it is a governmental law and not a Christian law.

You cited one of the 10 Commandments: 'Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill'. Is that an accurate translation?

Professor Berel Lang writes from Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., USA summarised the meaning of Ex 20:13,

“Perhaps you would give a couple of paragraphs to the misconception (and the mistranslation) of the Sixth Commandment [in Exodus 20:13], ‘You shall not murder,’ as ‘You shall not kill.’​

​

The original Hebrew, lo tirtsah., is very clear, since the verb ratsah. means ‘murder,’ not ‘kill.’ If the commandment proscribed killing as such, it would position Judaism against capital punishment and make it pacifist even in wartime. These may be defensible or admirable views, but they’re certainly not biblical” (‘You shall not murder’, Forward, January 9, 2004)​

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

the death penalty in the US is mostly applied to minorities, people with low IQs, and the poor. Charles Manson ended up dying in prison, while poor, young, minority men who commit far less heinous crimes (many of whom also have inadequate legal represenation, because public defenders are overworked and many of them do.not.care, anyway) end up receiving the death penalty. and so...

CE,

Do you have US statistics to support those statements?

Oz

 

[stovebolts]

OzSpen,
With much respect toward you, I would like to gently push back on one of your statements regarding Genesis 9.

We understand that every person from the time of Noah to today are descendants of Noah. We also understand the covenant with Noah is still in effect. It has not been nullified. When we look at the covenant with Noah, it was universal and none negatable. In other words, the covenant stands on Gods word, and Gods word alone.

In this way, regardless of your religious background or what sins you have committed, even murder, God will never flood the earth again, because He promised he wouldn't.

Regarding murder, even atheists are bound by the Noahide laws as the Noahide laws are universal and all men are under them.

Jews entered a covenant with additional laws, but the Noahide laws are reiterated within them. The same is true with the new covenant with Christ....if one hates his brother, he is guilty of murder.

 

[for_his_glory]

cool!
have you ever studied the cities of refuge that were established for people who accidentally took a life?
They are a type of Christ, even the names of the cities point to Christ, the person would be safe to live there as long as the high priest was alive (who is our great High Priest?)
Makes for an interesting study.

Thank you for reminding us about the cities of refuge as I never delved into studying this. This is a very important to this study on Genesis 9:6.

I went and read the scriptures on that which are: Exodus 21:12-14; Numbers 35:9-34 and Deuteronomy 19:1-13.

The six cities were: Kedesh, Golan, Ramoth-gilead, Shechem, Bezer, Hebron

The only one that never received land were the Levites as they were of the Priesthood.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then there's me...I killed Jesus. If I hadn't sinned He wouldn't have had to die on the cross.

So true, but yet not premeditated, but through lack of knowledge. Jesus is our city of refuge as we find forgiveness of sin and understanding through the Holy Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

the death penalty in the US is mostly applied to minorities, people with low IQs, and the poor. Charles Manson ended up dying in prison, while poor, young, minority men who commit far less heinous crimes (many of whom also have inadequate legal represenation, because public defenders are overworked and many of them do.not.care, anyway) end up receiving the death penalty. and so...

if the system worked better, maybe I'd be OK with the death penalty. maybe. I see the point...if you take a life with malice and forethought, your life should be taken. But in the modern legal system, its just not applied appropriately. poor people who are convicted with public defenders end up being killed by the state, while other people with better representation end up taking plea deals to less severe crimes or sometimes they end up in state hospitals, acquitted, etc.

so i vote NO on the death penalty in these United States. :_)

I wouldn't go as far as saying only applied to a certain minority as many prominent have faced the death penalty. (I watch to much ID Investigate)

I use to think like you as I was against the death penalty and even taught such. But after lisa-in-FL gave the scripture in Genesis 9:6 in another post I have been given a different light on studying what is truly written in the scriptures about the death penalty. We truly can not go by a carnal emotion, but to know truth as in what is already written.

One thing though. While a murder is incarcerated they can truly repent and seek God's forgiveness and be forgiven, but still according to the laws of God the death penalty still will be carried out.

When I use to go into the prisons I remember one guy in particular. He was there as he murdered someone as it was premeditated. He wasn't allowed to go to the Bible classes so he requested that I go to him.

I was given the opportunity to sit one on one, face to face across the table with him. He was a big burly man with many tattoos that would have been considered societies outcast just by his looks alone. After witnessing Christ and sharing the scriptures with him he asked me if it was to late for him and with tears streaming down his face he accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

He knew he deserved what he got after taking another's life, but yet sincerely humbled himself before the Lord and reached out to God to forgive him and like the thief on the cross this man too will be with Christ in paradise.

 

[Christ_empowered]

me again. I -respectfully- disagree.

in my wasted years before Christ, I had to deal with a public defender. At the initial interview about the case, the paralegal was so amused by how pathetic I was that she asked me to spell "Schizophrenia." true story. Looking back...

-if- the justic system 'worked,' I would have been committed to the state mental hospital. I'm not saying that to self-pity or even shake my fist at "The Man" (LOL), just...just sayin', basically...I had obvious, severe brain damage, mostly from psych "treatment." I had an alphabet soup of diagnoses/labels. I ended up with everything dropped and sealed, not because of the public defender (if anything, in spite of that individual), but because I also had severe, untreated -physical- health problems, the police report was full of lies and inaccuracies, and...

my parents were then more middle-middle class, but they were positioned to move up, and...yade yade yada. God brought things together for my own good+my parents' betterment, too....

but enough about me. The "justice" system in the US is...a mixed bag, on a good day. Here where I live, the -big- factor is: does person abc have a good lawyer? That's true all over America, but its especially -intense- where I live, compared to say...the north. Up north, I would have been committed long before I landed in jail, probably with no way out (so much for the beauty of "progressive" states, am I right?).

so...basically...I don't think the death penalty is OK, because the justice system is so ridiculously messed up. Having the state kill a citizen is no small matter, even if the crime in question is ridiculously brutal, heinous, etc.

what i also don't get...they try to prevent suicide in jails (this I know from personal experience), and I've read that when inmates kill themselves in prison, the staff can be punished, now and then criminal charges are filed, etc. My question there is...

if we are to give the state the authority to kill murderers, why don't we allow the murderers to simply kill themselves? and if the state has the authority to kill citizens who commit serious felonies...

why do we throw suicidal people in psych wards, psych hospitals, etc. for attempted suicide, suicidal ideation, etc.?

ok. again, I -respect- your position, and I am beginning to see the basis of your argument...I do think it has Scriptural support, but...

"where the rubber hits the road," I do -not- think I want the state to -ever- have the authority to kill a citizen for any crimes.

 

[for_his_glory]

It was God's covenant with Noah and his descendants and is not applicable in the 21st century for a worldwide audience. If capital punishment is implemented by the criminal law in some nation, it is a governmental law and not a Christian law.

Kill -
Shechitah (sh'-KHEE-tuh)
Lit. destruction or killing. Kosher slaughter.

Murder
Antisemitism - hostility to or prejudice againts Jews

Mitzvot Lo Ta'aseh (mits-VOHT loh tah-ah-SEH)
Commandments not to do something, such as the commandment not to murder. In English, these are called negative commandments. See Halakhah: Jewish Law.

Negative Commandments
Commandments not to do something, such as the commandment not to murder. In Hebrew, these are called mitzvot lo ta'aseh (commandments not to do). See Halakhah: Jewish Law.

Mitzvot D'Oraita: Commandments from the Torah
At the heart of halakhah is the unchangeable 613 mitzvot (commandments) that G-d gave to the Jewish people in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible).

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

 

[for_his_glory]

me again. I -respectfully- disagree.

in my wasted years before Christ, I had to deal with a public defender. At the initial interview about the case, the paralegal was so amused by how pathetic I was that she asked me to spell "Schizophrenia." true story. Looking back...

-if- the justic system 'worked,' I would have been committed to the state mental hospital. I'm not saying that to self-pity or even shake my fist at "The Man" (LOL), just...just sayin', basically...I had obvious, severe brain damage, mostly from psych "treatment." I had an alphabet soup of diagnoses/labels. I ended up with everything dropped and sealed, not because of the public defender (if anything, in spite of that individual), but because I also had severe, untreated -physical- health problems, the police report was full of lies and inaccuracies, and...

my parents were then more middle-middle class, but they were positioned to move up, and...yade yade yada. God brought things together for my own good+my parents' betterment, too....

but enough about me. The "justice" system in the US is...a mixed bag, on a good day. Here where I live, the -big- factor is: does person abc have a good lawyer? That's true all over America, but its especially -intense- where I live, compared to say...the north. Up north, I would have been committed long before I landed in jail, probably with no way out (so much for the beauty of "progressive" states, am I right?).

so...basically...I don't think the death penalty is OK, because the justice system is so ridiculously messed up. Having the state kill a citizen is no small matter, even if the crime in question is ridiculously brutal, heinous, etc.

what i also don't get...they try to prevent suicide in jails (this I know from personal experience), and I've read that when inmates kill themselves in prison, the staff can be punished, now and then criminal charges are filed, etc. My question there is...

if we are to give the state the authority to kill murderers, why don't we allow the murderers to simply kill themselves? and if the state has the authority to kill citizens who commit serious felonies...

why do we throw suicidal people in psych wards, psych hospitals, etc. for attempted suicide, suicidal ideation, etc.?

ok. again, I -respect- your position, and I am beginning to see the basis of your argument...I do think it has Scriptural support, but...

"where the rubber hits the road," I do -not- think I want the state to -ever- have the authority to kill a citizen for any crimes.

When the government puts aside the laws of God that were established for both Jew and Gentile and brings in their interpretations adding to and taking away from that which was in the beginning then you have a corrupt government like we have now that makes up their own laws to justify their own evil deeds just like the Pharisees who kept adding on to the laws.

 

[dianegcook]

Genesis 9:6 was mentioned in another forum and it got me to study this and I found this and wanted to share it as it changed my mind on Capital punishment as far as the death sentence which I did not believe in. This is my condensed version.

erlc.com/Killing. Are there exceptions

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Do these two scriptures contradict themselves, actually no they do not.

Murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice or forethought. Murder, therefore, is distinguished from killing by the issue of motive.

Jesus identified that motive behind murder as anger in Matthew 5:21, 22. Christ goes to the root of the behavior and sees the anger behind the action. The act of murder is still subject to the punishement in Genesis 9:6.

In Exodus 20:13 God forbids murder as He emphasizes the value of human life because we are all made in His image, but God also shows us that killing doesn't always fall under the category of murder.

Situations where killing is not murder is found in self-defense where one is allowed to protect them self, Exodus 22:2, 3; Nehemiah 4:11-14. Exodus 22:2, 3. If a thief breaks into your house at night time and is struck that he would die there is no blood guilt on the who causes the thief to die. But if it is during the daylight then the punishment of Genesis 9:6 would apply as the thief life was valued . So even after the command in Exodus 20:13 God permits the taking of a life if one's own life is in potential danger. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in scripture, value for human life is the rule.

Capital Punishment

Genesis 9:6 God established capital punishment even before giving the law of "Thou shall not kill" to Moses. The punishment in Genesis 9:6 speaks to the severity of the crime. The taking of a life warrants a punishment as in a death for a death. It's not given for vengeance, but for justice and the role of justice is carried out by one specific office, Romans 13:1-6.

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle.

In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

Amen
I do believe in capital punishment.
That is, to lie and wait, premeditated murder.

In Deut.19:11-13
But if any man hate his neighbor, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that He die, and fleeth into one of these cities,
Then the elders of his city shall fetch him, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger, that he may die.

Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel , that it may go well with thee.

Now if it was an accident he was to flee unto one of the cities, and live..Deut.19:4,5

 

[Christ_empowered]

thing is...in the 21st century...

poor people get over-charged. what coulda/shoulda/woulda been some degree of manslaughter ends up gettting a poor, low(er) IQ, mentally ill, minority, etc. individual the death penalty. meanwhile...

when legal representation gets involved, or when the individual has leverage....enter the world of the plea bargain. what coulda/shoulda/woulda been 1st degree murder can be reduced, sometimes it just means life with 0 possibility of parole, other times...

it could mean a lesser charge that carries the possibility of parole. laws also vary, state by state. and then one runs into 'mitigating factors' (read: good lawyer), the rare cases of not guilty because of mental illness/insanity/whatever the state calls it, the "guilty, but mentally ill" verdicts, and...

its a hot mess, basically. oh, and there are cases of individuals--usually lower status people, but not always-- being released after someone took it upon themselves to exonerate a truly not guilty individual.

in -this context- i do not think the death penalty should be on the table. there's just...too, too much wrong with the criminal justice system.

 

[for_his_glory]

I do believe in capitol punishment.
That is, to lie and wait, premeditated murder.

And I thank God He has used you to bring light to this. One can teach and old dog new tricks, LOL.

 

[for_his_glory]

thing is...in the 21st century...

poor people get over-charged. what coulda/shoulda/woulda been some degree of manslaughter ends up gettting a poor, low(er) IQ, mentally ill, minority, etc. individual the death penalty. meanwhile...

when legal representation gets involved, or when the individual has leverage....enter the world of the plea bargain. what coulda/shoulda/woulda been 1st degree murder can be reduced, sometimes it just means life with 0 possibility of parole, other times...

it could mean a lesser charge that carries the possibility of parole. laws also vary, state by state. and then one runs into 'mitigating factors' (read: good lawyer), the rare cases of not guilty because of mental illness/insanity/whatever the state calls it, the "guilty, but mentally ill" verdicts, and...

its a hot mess, basically. oh, and there are cases of individuals--usually lower status people, but not always-- being released after someone took it upon themselves to exonerate a truly not guilty individual.

in -this context- i do not think the death penalty should be on the table. there's just...too, too much wrong with the criminal justice system.

FYI, it's always been this way throughout all the generations and will be until Christ returns. It all started with the corrupt government of the Babylonian Empire and all the six empires that came after this first one with the last empire that governs today which is called mystery Babylon in the scriptures.

 

[dianegcook]

And I thank God He has used you to bring light to this. One can teach and old dog new tricks, LOL.

 

[for_his_glory]

 

[dianegcook]

Good verses evil..
War prayer,
Psa.144: 1,2
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight;
My Goodness, my Fortress, my High Tower, my Deliverer my Shield, and He in whom I trust, who subdued my people under me.

Just reminding folks that war is different.