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(From Thomas Boston's, "Human Nature in its Fourfold State")

"Haters of God." Romans 1:30

"The carnal mind is enmity against God." Romans 8:7

Men set up for themselves, an idol of their own fancy,
instead of the true God, and then fall down and worship it.

Every natural man is an enemy to God--as He is revealed in
His word. The infinitely holy, just, powerful, and true God--is
not the God whom he loves, but the God whom he loathes!
The Pagans finding that they could not be like God in holiness,
made their gods like themselves in filthiness; and thereby they
show what sort of a god the natural man would have. God is
holy; can an unholy creature love His unspotted holiness?

There is not a man, who is wedded to his lusts--as all the
unregenerate are--but would desire to blot out the God of
justice. Can the malefactor love his condemning judge?
Can an unjustified sinner love a just God? No, he cannot!

Men naturally would rather have a blind idol--than the
all-seeing God. They no more love the all-seeing, every
where present God--than the thief loves to have the judge
witness to his evil deeds. If it could be carried by votes,
God would be voted out of the world; for the language
of the carnal heart is, "The Lord does not see us. The Lord
has abandoned the earth." Ezekiel 8:12

Every unrenewed man an enemy to the true God.

"They say unto God--Leave us alone! We have
no desire to know Your ways!" Job 21:14

http://www.gracegems.org/
 
A spiritual monster!

(from Thomas Boston's, "Human Nature in its Fourfold State")

The unrenewed man's affections are wholly corrupted,
disordered and distempered. Man's heart naturally is
a mother of abominations! "For from within, out of
men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality,
theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness,
envy, slander, arrogance and folly." Mark 7:21, 22

"Men loved darkness." John 3:19

The natural man's affections are wretchedly misplaced.
He is a spiritual monster!

His heart is where his feet should be--fixed on the earth.

His heels are lifted up against heaven--which his heart
should be set on.

His face is towards hell; his back is towards heaven.

He loves what he should hate; and hates what he should love.

He joys in what he ought to mourn for; and mourns for
what he should rejoice in.

He abhors what he should desire; and desires what
he should abhor.

"Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God." 2 Tim. 3:4
 
There is not a man, who is wedded to his lusts--as all the
unregenerate are--but would desire to blot out the God of
justice. Can the malefactor love his condemning judge?
Can an unjustified sinner love a just God? No, he cannot!

Think about it, JM. What kind of a whacko would love a God who didn’t choose him for salvation but instead left him to eternal torment in hell. Imagine for one split second that you are NOT one of the chosen, that God sees you as unworthy of his grace and is going to cast you headlong into the fiery pit because you do what he created you to do. How do you feel about your ‘just and loving’ maker now? Do you think at all beyond the crispy clean pages of you sterilized doctrines? These are real people, with real pain, hopeless, dying souls with no god to love them, according to you. You have no compassion yet you are full of the God of love? Get real. Your callousness makes me ill.
:smt120
 
The difference between the godly & the ungodly

(from James Meikle's, "The Traveler" June 14, 1758)

There is a wide difference--in both principle and
practice--between the the godly and the ungodly.

The affections of the godly are refined--and their
desires exalted. The inclinations of the ungodly
are corrupt--and their desires groveling.

Sin has but a tottering standing, and a momentary
abode--in the godly. But sin has fixed its throne,
and taken up its eternal residence--in the ungodly.

In the godly, grace and sin struggle for sovereignty.
In the ungodly, sin domineers and there is no struggle.

The godly is deeply concerned about world to come.
The ungodly has no concern about eternal realities.

The speech of the godly is seasoned with grace.
The discourse of the ungodly is insipid and vain.

The godly has his hope fixed on God.
The ungodly has no fear of God before his eyes.

The godly use the world without abusing it.
The ungodly, in using the world, abuse both themselves and it.

The godly confesses God in his daily life, and rejoices
with his whole heart in Him. The ungodly says in his
practice--"there is no God" and wishes in his heart,
that there were no God.

The godly adores the Creator above all else.
The ungodly worships the 'creature' more than the Creator.

The godly uses God's name with profoundest reverence,
and departs from iniquity. The ungodly profanes God's
name with impudence, and adds iniquity to sin.

The godly redeems his time.
The ungodly trifles away his time.

The godly studies his duty in obedience to all God's precepts.
The ungodly shakes himself loose from every command of God.

The godly forgives his foes.
The ungodly lays a snare for his foes.

The godly commits it to God to avenge his wrong.
The ungodly, fiery and tumultuous--seeks revenge.

The godly loves chastity in all things.
The ungodly wallows in uncleanness.

The godly is content with his condition.
The ungodly covets all the day long.

The godly is pure in heart. The heart of the
ungodly is like a cage full of unclean birds.

The godly walks at liberty in the ways of God.
The ungodly is the servant and slave of sin.

The Holy Spirit rules in the heart of the godly.
Satan rules in the heart of the ungodly.

The godly has his conversation in heaven.
The ungodly has his conversation in hell.


As there is such a wide difference in their principles
and practices--so also, in their eternal destinies.
God is faithful--He has promised felicity to the pious,
and threatened vengeance to the wicked. "The wicked
is thrust out in his wickedness; but the righteous has
hope in his death." Proverbs 14:32

The godly are under the blessing of God's love.
The ungodly are under the curse of God's law.

The godly with joy, draw water out of the wells of salvation.
The ungodly shall drink of the wrath of the Almighty.

To the godly pertain all the exceeding great and precious promises.
To the ungodly pertain all the threatenings of God.

Heaven shall be the palace of the godly!
Hell shall be the prison of the ungodly!

While the godly shall dwell through eternity with God, the
ungodly shall be driven away into everlasting darkness!

Thus, the righteous and wicked are separated in their
life, and divided in their death. They are divided . . .
in their principles,
in their practices,
in their choices,
in their joys,
in their thoughts,
in their company,
in their speech,
in their fears,
in their expectations,
in their death,
and through eternity itself!
 
unread,

I understand your pain. I REALLY do.

But let's not 'burn' the messenger. For it is NOT JM that chooses to 'cause' this pain. Nor is it God. WE have the choice to either learn of and follow, or perish. That is a choice that is OURS. So, don't blame the maker of the 'gallon sized pot' because it was not designed to hold 'two gallon'. There are those that will NOT accept even when God touches their hearts. For these desire 'their OWN' rather than what God has to offer. These ARE their 'own' gods, and there is NOTHING that ANYONE, other than themselves, can do to change it.

JM,

As always, I find your offering compelling. And you couldn't have come closer to 'the Truth'. The 'world' couldn't care less about God. Hate Him in fact, for He IS the TRUE God and so being is the ONLY thing able to impede the wanting hearts of those that deny Him. For these would be 'their OWN gods cept for the FACT that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. This is enough to make many not only deny, but openly REBEL against their Creator. Such a sad but true situation.

And unread,

that is the WHY of our testimony and witness. It is for US to make sure that we leave NO ONE without the understanding of God's love or the gift offered by Christ upon the cross.

MEC
 
unred typo said:
Think about it, JM. What kind of a whacko would love a God who didn’t choose him for salvation but instead left him to eternal torment in hell. Imagine for one split second that you are NOT one of the chosen, that God sees you as unworthy of his grace and is going to cast you headlong into the fiery pit because you do what he created you to do. How do you feel about your ‘just and loving’ maker now? Do you think at all beyond the crispy clean pages of you sterilized doctrines? These are real people, with real pain, hopeless, dying souls with no god to love them, according to you. You have no compassion yet you are full of the God of love? Get real. Your callousness makes me ill.
:smt120

This explains your hate of God....You simply do not understand the nature of God as is evident by your postings...

JM.
This was a great post. Thanks a bunch....
 
jgredline said:
This explains your hate of God....You simply do not understand the nature of God as is evident by your postings...

JM.
This was a great post. Thanks a bunch....

I’m not surprised you don’t understand my posts. You assume the Calvinist description of God is the truth about the God of the Bible and your strictly biased view will not allow you to imagine any other concept of God as he really is. I don’t completely understand the nature of a God so malignant and petty he can only be the invention of a deranged mind, this is true. The fact that neither you nor ~JM~ will answer my posts with your own personally analyzed explanation says volumes about your own understanding of such a vicious dictator.

Suppose I say to you that there is a raft loaded with men, women, and children caught in the rapids and swiftly drifting toward Niagara Falls. There’s a crane working on the shore, close enough and big enough to pull the entire raft to safety. But instead of attaching the hook to the raft, the crane operator lowers a small basket that will only hold 3 people and lifts them to the landing. Although he has time to save even more, he explains to you that he would rather save just the few chosen ones so they would really appreciate their salvation. As we watch helplessly, the raft of terrified, screaming people slips over the falls and disappears into the thunderous foam. Nice guy, our hero, huh?

Now please explain to me why the Calvinist god cannot save all men if he can save any without their will to do so. Explain in your own words and not some esoteric scholarly cut and paste that purposefully eludes the truth. You can be as insulting as you wish as long as you answer the question honestly. Thanks. Bunches. :wink:
 
unred typo said:
I’m not surprised you don’t understand my posts. :
I am not sure many folks do understand your posts.

You assume the Calvinist description of God is the truth about the God of the Bible and your strictly biased view will not allow you to imagine any other concept of God as he really is.
Unread...I am not taking a Calvinistic view of any of this. I am taking the view of what the bible clearly teaches.

I don’t completely understand the nature of a God so malignant and petty he can only be the invention of a deranged mind, this is true. The fact that neither you nor ~JM~ will answer my posts with your own personally analyzed explanation says volumes about your own understanding of such a vicious dictator.
The fact of the matter is simply this. It is your lack of understanding that puts you at odds with God. You say you don't understand the nature of God and I certainly do not either. The differance between you and I is that I will not make something out of the scriptures to try and fit my theology. You for example do not believe Jesus to be God as you have stated in another post.
You also do not believe in the trinity that goes hand in hand with Jesus being God. OK, But what does this tell me. It tells me that according to the scriptures you are not born again. If your not born again, then how can You understand the things of the Spirit? You see the HS is also God and its the HS who resides in the believer to give understanding, something the natural man does not understand.....At one time you were on the right track as is evident by some of your previous post, then you got caught up by something that caused you to turn away from the true and living God and instead you started to follow your version of god who is a false god. A god who can't atone for sin anymore than I could.......


Suppose I say to you that there is a raft loaded with men, women, and children caught in the rapids and swiftly drifting toward Niagara Falls. There’s a crane working on the shore, close enough and big enough to pull the entire raft to safety. But instead of attaching the hook to the raft, the crane operator lowers a small basket that will only hold 3 people and lifts them to the landing. Although he has time to save even more, he explains to you that he would rather save just the few chosen ones so they would really appreciate their salvation. As we watch helplessly, the raft of terrified, screaming people slips over the falls and disappears into the thunderous foam. Nice guy, our hero, huh?
This analogy of yours is a complete missrepresentaion of the GOD that I know, Love and Serve.......This goes back to what I said earlier. You do not know GOD as this is further evidence. Let me explain this to you in english....I can also explain it to you in Spanish or Greek if you like.....let me know......Lets look at your ''dumb'' analogy.....

Suppose I say to you that there is a raft loaded with men, women, and children caught in the rapids and swiftly drifting toward Niagara Falls. There’s a crane working on the shore, close enough and big enough to pull the entire raft to safety.
OK, I am with you so far....

But instead of attaching the hook to the raft, the crane operator lowers a small basket that will only hold 3 people and lifts them to the landing. Although he has time to save even more, he explains to you that he would rather save just the few chosen ones so they would really appreciate their salvation.

First of all shame on you for putting words in Gods mouth.....You are missleading folks and taking God out of context here by making God sound like some ''evil god'' who would purposely sacrifice people and send them to hell for everlasting punishment, for his personal enjoyment...which is against Gods nature....As you will see........if not here, while your sitting on the great white thrown.....
As we watch helplessly, the raft of terrified, screaming people slips over the falls and disappears into the thunderous foam. Nice guy, our hero, huh?

....You see this is why you need to go and start listening to J.V. MaGee....again....perhaps you will get saved.....only God knows that....

Now let me explain something to you.
Suppose the people on the raft where Jgredline, Solo, JM, Unread, Sputnik, Drew, Jay T and Tan Ninety......And that raft was about to fall over niagra falls, then the crane opperator who is God lowers the basket and JM, Solo and Jgredline get in the basket....God pulls us out and we are saved...My ''GOD'' would say, I still have time to save more, so I will send the Basket (Jesus who is God) to save more and at that time Drew and Tan accept the gift of Salvation that is there, all they have to do is climb in the basket and so they do and God pulls them out and they are saved. The crane opperator says, ''wait, there is still time for one more trip'' so he sends the basket back down but Jat T is so busy trying to do good works and your so busy debating God that you run out of time and you both fall are are tormented day and night for ever and ever....Why, because you choose not to get in the basket because you were too busy trying to be good......Is this Gods fault you are now in hell? NO, Its your fault you are burning......



Now please explain to me why the Calvinist god cannot save all men if he can save any without their will to do so. Explain in your own words and not some esoteric scholarly cut and paste that purposefully eludes the truth. You can be as insulting as you wish as long as you answer the question honestly. Thanks. Bunches. :wink:

First of all and JM will back me on this.....I am not a Calvinist.....
I would be a ''Calminianist''

And simply Put God will not turn away anybody who Chooses him. God does not purposely send people to hell, but people choose to go to hell by the rejection of his Son Jesus.......
 
Jgredline, if you are not Calvinist, then I don’t hate your God. My post is directed toward Calvinists and those who hold to a theology that God has chosen to save some and left the rest to go to hell, when he could have saved all. The worst of these views is exactly as I have portrayed it. ~JM~ has a poll on this forum that refers to this atrocity as Supralapsarianism.
1. Elect some, reprobate rest
2. Create
3. Permit Fall
4. Provide salvation for elect
5. Call elect to salvation

You may read it for yourself here:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=
Read my last post to Vic on page 4 for a quick idea of my frustration with JM.

This is a quote from ~JM~ in answer to a question asked him:
~JM~ said:
[quote="unidentified poster":f8006] ...is Calvin speaking within the context of being predestined to damnation from the beginning or only after the fact of original sin?

The Bible does read, "before having done good or evil."

I don't have a lot of time right now, peace brother.
Jm[/quote:f8006]

JM later admits that he likes Supralapsarianism the best to describe his position:

~JM~ said:
… this thread has helped me and encouraged me in many ways. I probably best fit into the supra position right now, but with a twist, I'll pm you as I work thru it...hoping you can help.…

This thread of ~JM~’s is just another one of the doctrines of Calvinism, Total depravity. I popped in here to chide ~JM~ on his ‘Supralapsarianism’ stance and to hold his contemptible view of God in front of his face again. I was hoping he would come to realize how utterly contrary it is to common decency and the love of God shown in the Bible.

As to the rest of your charges against me, they are for the most part completely false but you have accused me because you misunderstood my posts. I'll forgive you since it’s probably my fault for not being more clear in my writing. I see I accused you falsely as well, guilt by association with ~JM~. He may disown his previous statements and cloak his theology in something more benign, but clearly he has shown his true face is toward the Calvinist camp.
:robot:
 
Imagican said:
unread,

I understand your pain. I REALLY do.

But let's not 'burn' the messenger. For it is NOT JM that chooses to 'cause' this pain. Nor is it God. WE have the choice to either learn of and follow, or perish. That is a choice that is OURS. So, don't blame the maker of the 'gallon sized pot' because it was not designed to hold 'two gallon'. There are those that will NOT accept even when God touches their hearts. For these desire 'their OWN' rather than what God has to offer. These ARE their 'own' gods, and there is NOTHING that ANYONE, other than themselves, can do to change it.

WE have the choice to either learn of and follow, or perish? Not according to ~JM~
This is a quote from ~JM~ in answer to a question that was asked of him in his poll: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=:
~JM~ said:
[quote="unidentified poster":biggrinfeba] ...is Calvin speaking within the context of being predestined to damnation from the beginning or only after the fact of original sin?

The Bible does read, "before having done good or evil."
I don't have a lot of time right now, peace brother.
Jm[/quote:biggrinfeba]

I’m not ‘burning’ the messenger. I’m merely showing that JM’s message is not consistent with the God of love portrayed in scripture. In his theology, man is not free to choose anything, except to reject God and go to hell.
 
He is both depraved and condemned!

(From J. A. James, "The Practical Believer Delineated" 1852)

God created man in His own image--which consisted of
true holiness. No spot of guilt was upon his conscience
--nor spot of depravity upon his heart.

The light of truth irradiated his understanding.

The glow of perfect love warmed his heart.

The choices of his will were all on the side of purity.

His conscience was the seat of perfect peace.

The beauties of holiness adorned his character.

His whole soul was in harmony with the untainted
scenes of Paradise--in which bowers he walked in
undisturbed friendship with God.

No sorrow wrung his heart.

No care wrinkled his brow.

No anxiety broke his rest.

He was happy--because he was holy.

When he sinned, his whole moral condition was
altered! He fell under the condemnation of the law
he had violated, and became the subject of inward
corruption. An entire change passed over his nature.
He not only became guilty--but depraved!

His understanding became darkened!

His affections became selfish and earthly!

His will became prone to choose what is wrong!

His conscience became benumbed!

If he would ever be recovered from this state of
misery, he must be both pardoned and sanctified.

The covenant of God's love and mercy in Christ Jesus
--the glorious scheme of redeeming grace--meets the
whole case of fallen man, by providing not only
justification--but sanctification as well.

Wonderful gospel provision!

Pardon for the guilty!

Sanctification for the unholy!

The condition of the sinner may be likened to that of
a condemned criminal shut up in prison, and infected
with a deadly plague! What he needs, is both the cure
of his plague--and the reversal of his sentence. Neither
alone, will meet his case. If he is only pardoned--he will
die of the plague. If he is only cured of the plague--he
will suffer the just sentence of the law.

So it is with fallen man--he is both depraved and
condemned! If he is only pardoned--his depravity will
be his misery. If he could by any means be reformed
--he is still under sentence of death.

The glory and completeness of the gospel scheme
is, that it provides a cure for the diseases of the
soul--in sanctification; as well as a pardon from
the condemnation of the law--in justification!
 
The devil's logic

(From Brooks "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices")

"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
Romans 6:1

To argue from God's mercy to sinful liberty--is the devil's
logic--and such logicians do ever walk as upon a mine of
gunpowder ready to be blown up! No such soul can ever
avert or avoid the wrath of God. This is wickedness at the
height--for a man to be very bad, because God is very good!
There is not a worse spirit than this in hell. Ah, Lord, does
not wrath, yes, the greatest wrath--lie at this man's door?
Are not the strongest chains of darkness prepared for such
a soul? To sin against mercy is bestial; no, it is worse!

To render good for evil is divine.

To render good for good is human.

To render evil for evil is brutish.

But to render evil for good is devilish!

There is nothing in the world that renders a man more
unlike a Christian, and more like Satan--than to argue
from God's mercy to sinful liberty; from divine goodness
to licentiousness. This is devilish logic, and in whomever
you find it, you may write, 'This soul is lost!'

A man may as truly say, 'the sea burns', or 'the fire cools'
--as that God's free grace and mercy should make a truly
gracious soul to live wickedly.

"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin, live
any longer therein?" Romans 6:1, 2
 
Good news, ~JM~, I found a cut and paste reply for you:

This article came as the result of obeying the command to contend for the faith against those who change grace into a license for immorality (Jude 3,4). The person I dialoged with was a Baptist minister’s wife. While I was talking about the defiling, corrupting and deadly effects of sin for the righteous and mentioning that Paul told Timothy to keep himself pure (1 Tim. 5:22) because he knew Timothy could sin and become impure and even die spiritually, she interjected the frequently quoted verse from Romans 3:10 which states that there is no one that is righteous. That verse reads:

As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one ....
Because this verse is so universally known among those who profess salvation and claim to believe the Bible, it is important to examine this carefully. Another Scripture sometimes used for the same cause is Eccl. 7:20 such as what the so-called “great theologian†George Whitefield did against John Wesley in “A Letter from Mr. George Whitefield in 1740 to the Rev. Mr. John Wesley in answer to Wesley's sermon entitled “Free Grace.†Whitefield wrote:
And since the Scriptures declare that there is not a just man upon earth (no, not among those of the highest attainments in grace) that doeth good and sinneth not (Eccl. 7:20), we are sure that this will be the case of all the children of God.
Actual Named People
To ascertain the meaning of any Scripture we must check all related verses and draw our conclusions from all of these together. When this is done, it becomes apparent that there are numerous examples of actual named people who were righteous. Please note the following Scriptures:
This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. (Gen 6:9)
Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. (Mat 1:19)

Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. (Luke 2:25)

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. (Mat 23:35)

and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard) (2 Pet 2:7,8)

Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? (James 2:21)

According to these Scriptures, Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot and Abraham are all clearly cited as being righteous. If we had no other Scriptures except any one of these we should know something is terribly wrong with the eternal security idea that there are none that are righteous and that we are all sinners, even Christians. (Since we have a whole article devoted to the false concept that we are all sinners, even Christians, at http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/christiansinner.htm, it will not be dealt with here.)
Besides the above list, there is also another important Scripture:

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed. (1 Th 2:10)
The pronoun we refers to Paul and his companions (Silas and Timothy). They too are specific examples of righteous people by name. So now we have Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot, Abraham, Paul, Silas and Timothy.
The Unnamed Righteous
Besides the actual people that are labeled righteous, there are scores of other Scriptures which refer to the unnamed righteous. Please ponder just some of these many Scriptures. The following list is only from the New Testament:
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Mat 5:45)
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. (Mat 9:13)

Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. (Mat 10:41)

For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. (Mat 13:17)

Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (Mat 13:43)

This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous (Mat 13:49)

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. (Mat 23:29)

Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?†(Mat 25:37)

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Mat 25:46)

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.†(Mark 2:17)

And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteousâ€â€to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (Luke 1:17)

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32)

and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. (Luke 14:14)

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. (Luke 15:7)

and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. (Acts 24:15)

For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.†(Rom 1:17)

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Rom 2:13)

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. (Rom 3:20)

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. (Rom 5:7)

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (Rom 5:19)

Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.†(Gal 3:11)

We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, (1 Tim 1:9)

to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect (Heb 12:23)

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)

For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil. (1 Pet 3:12)

And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?†(1 Pet 4:18)

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)

Remember This
To say that there are none who are righteous is the same as saying that all are unrighteous. If that was true, then every person, with no exception, will not inherit the kingdom of God:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9,10, KJV)
To not inherit the Kingdom of God is to be thrown into the lake of fire.
The Meaning of Roman 3:10
The meaning of Romans 3:10 is that all people without salvation are unrighteous, that is, not even one is righteous. This pertains to both Jew and Gentile alike as Paul was stressing in that chapter. Please note some other details about those that are not righteous from the context:
What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes. (Rom 3:9-18)
The people that are not righteous are also mentioned with the following:
no one who understands
no one who seeks God
they have together become worthless
there is no one who does good, not even one
there is no fear of God before their eyes
Paul was referring to the following Scriptures when he gave us Romans 3:9-18:

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.†They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. (Psa 14:1-3)
An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin. The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good. (Psa 36:1-3)

In other words, Paul was not referring to the follower of Christ, but all wicked people if they are Jew or Gentile, even the fool, who doesn’t even think there is a God.
The Righteous
One becomes righteous at the point of a trusting-submitting faith in Jesus, which includes repentance. Basic characteristics of the righteous include the following:
(1) they don’t have anything to repent of (Lk. 15:7);
(2) they are not doing evil (1 Peter 3:12);
(3) they do what is right (1 John 3:7).

It is also clear from multiple Scriptures that the righteous will live because of his faith:

See, he is puffed up; his desires are not uprightâ€â€but the righteous will live by his faith (Hab 2:4)
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.†(Rom 1:17)

Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.†(Gal 3:11)

But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him. (Heb 10:38)

If one is not righteous, then he is in the only other group possible. Sometimes that group is referred to as wicked, unrighteous, ungodly, unholy, sinners, evil, unsaved or the like. In other words, if one is not righteous he is on the road to hell at this very moment and is in a desperate need to repent. We must never forget that only the righteous will go to eternal life:
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Mat 25:46)
You Can Become Righteous
Again, one must repent (turn from his sins) or he will perish. Hence, the faith in Jesus that is needed to be considered righteous is a trusting and submitting faithâ€â€one that obeys. Furthermore, it is imperative to endure to the very end of your life to enter God’s paradise kingdom (Mt. 10:22; Heb. 3:14 and Rev. 2:10,11). If you are a real Christian now, you are righteous, but sin can change that righteous standing and bring you to your spiritual death, just like it did for both Adam and Eve. Because of this truth, Paul told Timothy (who was righteous) to keep himself pure (1 Tim. 5:22). This is under the umbrella of the grace that Paul preached and by which we are saved. We read this multiple times in Ezekiel:
Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself. (Ezek 3:20, 21)
But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26)

If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:18)

For much more information regarding this whole issue and the believer’s security, please consult our books, The Believer’s Conditional Security and The Myth of Eternal Security.
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jgredline said:
Now let me explain something to you.
Suppose the people on the raft where Jgredline, Solo, JM, Unread, Sputnik, Drew, Jay T and Tan Ninety......And that raft was about to fall over niagra falls, then the crane opperator who is God lowers the basket and JM, Solo and Jgredline get in the basket....God pulls us out and we are saved...My ''GOD'' would say, I still have time to save more, so I will send the Basket (Jesus who is God) to save more and at that time Drew and Tan accept the gift of Salvation that is there, all they have to do is climb in the basket and so they do and God pulls them out and they are saved. The crane opperator says, ''wait, there is still time for one more trip'' so he sends the basket back down but Jat T is so busy trying to do good works and your so busy debating God that you run out of time and you both fall are are tormented day and night for ever and ever....Why, because you choose not to get in the basket because you were too busy trying to be good......Is this Gods fault you are now in hell? NO, Its your fault you are burning......
.

Don't you think you, too, are putting words in God's mouth by having this kind of analogy? Will there be also too many last calls for the sinners when Judgment Day comes to us ot will it be abrupt like a thief in the night? God has His own judgment and wisdom in the same way that we do have our own, seek the One that is of God and deny the ones that are only ours if we want the truth from God.
 
scorpia said:
Don't you think you, too, are putting words in God's mouth by having this kind of analogy? Will there be also too many last calls for the sinners when Judgment Day comes to us ot will it be abrupt like a thief in the night? God has His own judgment and wisdom in the same way that we do have our own, seek the One that is of God and deny the ones that are only ours if we want the truth from God.

Scorpia
Your the fellow or fella that gets inspiration from demons right? Or do I have you confused with someone else?
 
oscar3 said:
Scorpia
Your the fellow or fella that gets inspiration from demons right? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

On what basis? The latter is the right one, you are confused with what I'm saying. Call on and come directly to Jesus and your confusion will be washed away.
 
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