Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Grace vs Law - which is more important?
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
Classik
Member
That was the scripture I had in mind when the discussion was going on. But I never bothered to give my stance.
However the man who summarised said, Grace shall end. But we are judged by the law
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
How can someone be judged by the law of God if they are not under the Law of God but are raised with Christ.
How can someone be judged by the law of God if they are not under the Law of God but are raised with Christ.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Classik, dirtfarmer here
Faith and hope shall end but love endures for ever, it shall never end. 1 Corinthians 13
iLOVE
Member
Romans 8:2 King James Version (KJV)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Law says do - Grace says done.
Oh well I head for another beating. It took me years to even get a hint at the answer, and then some groups (my closest friends) think I have lost my sanity.
The answer is a bit complex. If I don't say enough the first time, keep after me. The word is placed in our hearts and minds. Both the desperately wicked and deceitful natural heart and the carnal mind have to be changed. The answer lies in an unliked scripture.
Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The mind of Christ in us understands redemption in Christ, but the heart of flesh is not stony anymore, but it awaits the resurrection to put on in-corruption.
I know the attack:
But you just don't know these five scriptures. I know the scriptures. I also know Paul was not lost, drunk, or on drugs when he wrote Romans 7:25
Without knowing the resurrection is going to change us more, we will all just argue / discuss this and never come to understand each other. My mind of Christ is pretty good, but my flesh (with a flesh heart) is abke to recoginize sin, but unable to change things now. At the last trump I will be changed.
I have a few bandages, so let the beating begin.
Redneck 1st class
eddif
Jeremiah 31:33 KJV
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Not just put Law in one part, but parts. What parts?
Hebrews 8:10 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Here a born again Jew expands / explains the Jeremiah passage. So. There are at least 2 inward parts.
And
Two births:
One physical
One spiritual
If we lump all our changes together we grope in darkness and think on:
How we need to enter our mothers womb a second time.
The word became flesh:
Jesus was born.
Jesus (the second Adam) became a quickening spirit and entered us.
The piles of differing information:
Our original mind
Our heart after the fall of Adam
The change to our heart
The change to our mind
Now all this might be done with scripture pretty easily, but no, carnal theology:
Bipartique man
Tripartique man
Resurrection already done
The Gentiles must keep the law of Moses
Multiple gospels
Multiple baptisms
Other thoughts
We have ways to understand:
Things hidden from foundation of creation
The things hidden in the law
The word became Jesus
The quickening spirit in us
Sometimes we have to just study scripture.
Not
We do not believe in all that.
Who is we?
Lounge redneck rat
eddif
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Not just put Law in one part, but parts. What parts?
Hebrews 8:10 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Here a born again Jew expands / explains the Jeremiah passage. So. There are at least 2 inward parts.
And
Two births:
One physical
One spiritual
If we lump all our changes together we grope in darkness and think on:
How we need to enter our mothers womb a second time.
The word became flesh:
Jesus was born.
Jesus (the second Adam) became a quickening spirit and entered us.
The piles of differing information:
Our original mind
Our heart after the fall of Adam
The change to our heart
The change to our mind
Now all this might be done with scripture pretty easily, but no, carnal theology:
Bipartique man
Tripartique man
Resurrection already done
The Gentiles must keep the law of Moses
Multiple gospels
Multiple baptisms
Other thoughts
We have ways to understand:
Things hidden from foundation of creation
The things hidden in the law
The word became Jesus
The quickening spirit in us
Sometimes we have to just study scripture.
Not
We do not believe in all that.
Who is we?
Lounge redneck rat
eddif
Jethro Bodine
Member
Correct, the flesh is powerless against sin. So stop trying to serve God from the flesh. Serve Him instead in the Spirit. That is what Paul is teaching us.
Paul is not telling us we're doomed to live in and be defeated by sin until the resurrection. He's telling us to not fight the fight in the weakness of the flesh, but rather in the might of the Spirit.
Some use Romans 7 as an excuse to be defeated by besetting sin (and still be okay with God...but that's another thread) when actually Paul is teaching us to be delivered from the power of sin by the new way of serving God--through the Holy Spirit.
" 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Romans 7:24-25 NASB)
11...if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live." (Romans 7:11-13 NASB)
The 'life' Paul is talking about is the life that results in our mortal bodies from the putting to death of sin.
Yeah, I know......easier said than done.
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine
Member
Amen, bro!
Jethro Bodine
Member
The question is not specific enough.
You have to specify what aspect of the law you're talking about:
In regard to the condemnation of the law, grace means little apart from the condemnation of the law.
In regard to the righteousness of the law, grace that does not uphold the righteousness of the law is no grace at all.
On the other hand, in regard to the covenant of the law, grace is far more superior.
Jethro Bodine
Member
In regard to justification this is absolutely correct. But the above does not negate the 'doing' of the righteousness of the law. In fact, grace was given us to do just that--uphold the righteousness of the law (Titus 2:11-12 NASB, Romans 3:31 NASB, Romans 13:8-10 NASB, Galatians 5:13-14 NASB)
Grace means the end of the law in regard to justification, but the beginning of the law, so to speak, in regard to obedience. For grace was given us to move us to a fulfilling of the law, not a trampling of the law, as the above passages show us.
This is why it's so important to specify what aspect of the law one is talking about.
Romans 5:13 KJV
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 3:20 KJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Matthew 5:17 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I am not set up for word studies now, but it appears Jesus fulfilled the law (was the sacrifice, sins placed on him, etc.).
We establish a proper lawful use of the law to identify sin.
I Peter 2:24 KJV
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Stripes for healing (still need healing in this life).
Death on cross (we do not have eternal life due to the law).
Two physical people, of the same sex, do not have children. As I read this thread, I appreacite the fact of the thought diversity of our posts:
Holiness posts,
Forgiveness posts
Wrath to come posts
Eternal life posts
Law posts
Grace posts
etc.
Children are born our of union. People are saved (born again) when diversity is unified in Christ Jesus.
Rambling redneck
eddif
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 3:20 KJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Matthew 5:17 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I am not set up for word studies now, but it appears Jesus fulfilled the law (was the sacrifice, sins placed on him, etc.).
We establish a proper lawful use of the law to identify sin.
I Peter 2:24 KJV
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Stripes for healing (still need healing in this life).
Death on cross (we do not have eternal life due to the law).
Two physical people, of the same sex, do not have children. As I read this thread, I appreacite the fact of the thought diversity of our posts:
Holiness posts,
Forgiveness posts
Wrath to come posts
Eternal life posts
Law posts
Grace posts
etc.
Children are born our of union. People are saved (born again) when diversity is unified in Christ Jesus.
Rambling redneck
eddif
While I have not really made (Classic) a study, I do seem to hear more of your mind being expressed lately.
Your stance. Your stance is appreciated.
As we are judged by the law, a great need develops. To avoid the wrath to come eternally, we need grace.
eddif
Is you ah trin to git me to say more.
II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Under the law (works of the law) temporary gains can be achieved by our works. However let us look a few verses down.
IIChronicles 7:19-20
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
Works of law are temporary, but the work Jesus did for us is permanent, if we remain in belief / faith.
Did I say anything. I do everything on a smart phone. It is slow and tedious, but I get to think and wait on the Spirit to bring things to my remembrance as I plod along.
Romans 12:3 KJV
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
How much mustard seed faith is one thing, but the ground and harvest are to be discussed too.
Type away.
eddif
Jethro Bodine
Member
Certainly when we believe in Jesus the ceremonial aspects of the law are fulfilled. But fulfillment is not just that.
When we believe in Jesus, and we walk by the Spirit, the righteous requirement of the law gets fulfilled: Love your neighbor as yourself.
...but the law also identifies righteousness. That is a proper use of the law too.
The healing we receive through the cross being the cancer of sin being killed in us and us living a life lived to righteousness as a result.
The stripes before the cross seem to be the healing.
The sins in his body on the cross seem to be our hope of eternal life.
eddif
I Corinthians 15:52 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Some things happen under the law
Some things happen at Pentecost
Some things happen at the judgement
The power comes from Jesus:
His birth
His suffering
His death
His resurrection
His assention
His intercession
His becoming a quickening spirit
The sending of the Holy Spirit
Other things
We preach not ourselves
eddif
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Some things happen under the law
Some things happen at Pentecost
Some things happen at the judgement
The power comes from Jesus:
His birth
His suffering
His death
His resurrection
His assention
His intercession
His becoming a quickening spirit
The sending of the Holy Spirit
Other things
We preach not ourselves
eddif
Classik
Member
Good thought. But how about the last days judgment? Dunno