Harlot and the Beast

[Northman]

Not that it's a big deal, but the entire thing gets hard to follow for pretty much the reasons Jim was saying.

Mostly it is in the details. There was a period in European history where quite the migration happened. It mostly involved the Germanics, who are most of those tribes you listed. Suevi, Franks, Alemanni, Lombards, Burgundy....all Germans. Someone can look at a map and see Burgundy and Switzerland on it at the same time. The kingdom of the Franks were actually the dominant German power that united most of them all and even expanded to lots of western Europe. The king of the Franks was the one given the title Holy Roman Emperor, even though he and his empire was German, not Roman in any way/shape/form.

I said these ten nations were, as in the time of these four Empires. Anyone who really wants to know what countries are all involved within them can look that up.

When that is done, the answers get even more confusing. These peoples didn't live in the same place in the time of those first three empires as they did at the very end of the last one. As in they were all still in eastern Europe.

These are all just little things that add up to someone not being able to see the meat of what you are talking about, all because of the terms used.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not that it's a big deal, but the entire thing gets hard to follow for pretty much the reasons Jim was saying.

Mostly it is in the details. There was a period in European history where quite the migration happened. It mostly involved the Germanics, who are most of those tribes you listed. Suevi, Franks, Alemanni, Lombards, Burgundy....all Germans. Someone can look at a map and see Burgundy and Switzerland on it at the same time. The kingdom of the Franks were actually the dominant German power that united most of them all and even expanded to lots of western Europe. The king of the Franks was the one given the title Holy Roman Emperor, even though he and his empire was German, not Roman in any way/shape/form.


When that is done, the answers get even more confusing. These peoples didn't live in the same place in the time of those first three empires as they did at the very end of the last one. As in they were all still in eastern Europe.

These are all just little things that add up to someone not being able to see the meat of what you are talking about, all because of the terms used.

Daniel Chapter 7

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximently from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

That which is in parenthesis are today's nations as we would know them and find them on a map. I can't see anything hard to understand.

 

[Northman]

That which is in parenthesis are today's nations as we would know them and find them on a map. I can't see anything hard to understand.

Yes look on the map and see Burgundy and Switzerland on it at the same time. See how for a limited period of time Burgundy occupied some land in what is known as Switzerland, but it wasn't Switzerland, yet you call one the other. Look at the map and see the Franks occupy the land we know as Austrasia, we know these today mostly as the low countries...Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, with lots of territory dipping into Germany and a sliver of northern France. Someone from Naples(Italian) can say the don't have any Lombard in them at all. What about the bottom half of Portugal where no Suevi were? What about the northwest of modern Spain where most of them lived?

Are you aware that the Roman empire ran for hundreds of years after you say it ended in 27BC?

Like I said, these details are getting in the way of what you want to say. Maybe the whole dropping off of what you think their modern counterparts are would help.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes look on the map and see Burgundy and Switzerland on it at the same time. See how for a limited period of time Burgundy occupied some land in what is known as Switzerland, but it wasn't Switzerland, yet you call one the other. Look at the map and see the Franks occupy the land we know as Austrasia, we know these today mostly as the low countries...Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, with lots of territory dipping into Germany and a sliver of northern France. Someone from Naples(Italian) can say the don't have any Lombard in them at all. What about the bottom half of Portugal where no Suevi were? What about the northwest of modern Spain where most of them lived?

Are you aware that the Roman empire ran for hundreds of years after you say it ended in 27BC?

Like I said, these details are getting in the way of what you want to say. Maybe the whole dropping off of what you think their modern counterparts are would help.

It was only the Western Roman Empire that ended in 27BC.

All I can say is you have to do a study on the history of the Western and Eastern Roman Empire including the other three Empires beginning with the Babylonian Empire. This will help one to understand all the territories that where involved in those times when the Romans all scattered to other nations and see what these territories are in our modern day as many territories have changed names and borders throughout the generations.

It's a deep and can be a complicated study that many care not to take the time to study.

 

[Jim Parker]

No contradiction as this Luciferian NWO will seem to change the times and laws, Daniel 7:25, and will be self governed without election with their own economic system and some type of currency unlike our money we use today to buy and sell.

You said "the mark of the beast (not being a literal mark) is the thoughts of the mind and actions of the hands. "
Thoughts of the mind and actions of the hands are not currency.

That was what I asked to be clarified.

When I say IMO that is speculation only as what I said about it being the thoughts of the mind (forehead) and the actions of the hand (right hand).

The mark of the beast on the forehead is related to the mark on the forehead of the 144,000 identifying them to be dedicated to the LORD. The mark of the beast indicates their dedication to the devil.

I believe this mark only to be a symbolic number of the beast being a man as scripture says and not a literal 666 as being a chip or tattoo as many believe it to be in order to buy and sell.

That seems a good conclusion, IMO.

 

[Jim Parker]

No contradiction as this Luciferian NWO will seem to change the times and laws, Daniel 7:25, and will be self governed without election with their own economic system and some type of currency unlike our money we use today to buy and sell.

Here's another reference to a mark on the forehead:
Eze 9:3-6
Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side; and the LORD said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.” To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

 

[Northman]

It was only the Western Roman Empire that ended in 27BC.

Western Roman Empire, founded Jan 395AD.
The date you are giving is for when Julius was made dictator. The nation very much carried on, business as usual. There hadn't been a split yet. The nation wasn't even at it's full strength yet.

All I can say is you have to do a study on the history of the Western and Eastern Roman Empire including the other three Empires beginning with the Babylonian Empire. This will help one to understand all the territories that where involved in those times when the Romans all scattered to other nations and see what these territories are in our modern day as many territories have changed names and borders throughout the generations.

It's a deep and can be a complicated study that many care not to take the time to study.

It isn't anymore complicated than committing to memory the record of any other time. It's just the errors are crazy. I'm not talking about spiritual things that are debatable. I am speaking of stuff like the first line in this post.

 

[Randy]

The only problem with this is that Rev 9:1-12 mentions nothing of an angel coming out of the pit, but only locust who are given instruction to not hurt those who are sealed by God.

I dont see that problem

Rev 9
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Rev 17:8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Rev 13:1
The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
Rev 11:7
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them

 

[for_his_glory]

I dont see that problem

Rev 9
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Rev 17:8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Rev 13:1
The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
Rev 11:7
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them

Rev 9:1-12 The star John saw that fell from heaven and having the key to open the bottomless pit is Apollyon (destroyer) who is probably the same angel we read about in Revelation 20:1-3 that God gives the key to that opens the bottomless pit Satan and his angels will be cast into. When the bottomless pit was opened locust came up out of it. In reference to a smoke these locust would be to numerous to number, Judges 7:12, and look like dark smoke as they rise and swarm if you saw them from a distance. Once they became closer to your vision you would see that it wasn’t smoke, but a hoard of locust. Their attributes of what God is purposing them for is what gives them their power to sting as in tormenting those who have not the seal of God on them. They are compared as scorpions that literally sting using the power of their tails as they raise them above their head.

Rev 11:7 is the same Luciferian (beast) NWO system we find in Rev 13 as John saw a beast (beast is often referred to as nations in scripture) rise up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns and upon his horns ten crowns, (crowns denotes Kings) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15.

 

[Randy]

Rev 9:1-12 The star John saw that fell from heaven and having the key to open the bottomless pit is Apollyon (destroyer) who is probably the same angel we read about in Revelation 20:1-3 that God gives the key to that opens the bottomless pit Satan and his angels will be cast into. When the bottomless pit was opened locust came up out of it. In reference to a smoke these locust would be to numerous to number, Judges 7:12, and look like dark smoke as they rise and swarm if you saw them from a distance. Once they became closer to your vision you would see that it wasn’t smoke, but a hoard of locust. Their attributes of what God is purposing them for is what gives them their power to sting as in tormenting those who have not the seal of God on them. They are compared as scorpions that literally sting using the power of their tails as they raise them above their head.

Rev 11:7 is the same Luciferian (beast) NWO system we find in Rev 13 as John saw a beast (beast is often referred to as nations in scripture) rise up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns and upon his horns ten crowns, (crowns denotes Kings) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15.

I don't see it that way.

 

[for_his_glory]

Western Roman Empire, founded Jan 395AD.
The date you are giving is for when Julius was made dictator. The nation very much carried on, business as usual. There hadn't been a split yet. The nation wasn't even at it's full strength yet.


It isn't anymore complicated than committing to memory the record of any other time. It's just the errors are crazy. I'm not talking about spiritual things that are debatable. I am speaking of stuff like the first line in this post.

Thank you for that correction on the Western Roman Empire as it was founded in 395AD. I got myself confused as I was studying the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. To make it clear the Roman Empire I am speaking of is the one that reigned from 753BC-27BC when Romulus founded Rome in 27BC and Augustus Caesar became the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD.

I complicated and confused myself

 

[for_his_glory]

You said "the mark of the beast (not being a literal mark) is the thoughts of the mind and actions of the hands. "
Thoughts of the mind and actions of the hands are not currency.

That was what I asked to be clarified.

The mark of the beast on the forehead is related to the mark on the forehead of the 144,000 identifying them to be dedicated to the LORD. The mark of the beast indicates their dedication to the devil.

That seems a good conclusion, IMO.

I never said thoughts of the mind and actions of the hands are currency. What I mean by thoughts of the mind and actions of the hand are those who have no faith in Christ during this time as their thoughts are zoned in taking care of themselves as they reach out their hands to accept that of what the beast is falsely offering them. Within the NWO's economic system I have no idea what they will have set up in order for people to buy and sell at this time as it will not be the currency we have now.

How can the mark of the beast be related to the mark on the forehead of the 144,000 as the mark of the beast has nothing, even remotely similar to do with the sealing of the 144,000. Rev 7:1-8 the 144,000 that are still alive in the end of days have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.

((Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4. Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)

 

[Northman]

Thank you for that correction on the Western Roman Empire as it was founded in 395AD. I got myself confused as I was studying the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. To make it clear the Roman Empire I am speaking of is the one that reigned from 753BC-27BC when Romulus founded Rome in 27BC and Augustus Caesar became the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD.

I complicated and confused myself

The Roman empire that ran from 753BC to 27BC is the exact same one that ran from 753BC to 395AD. The date you are looking at is just the duration of the republic. The nation itself lasted until it's split in 395, after which it did nothing but lose territory until it's demise less than a hundred years later(the western half). It is at these times(400ish+AD) you will find the tribes you talk about being the ten moving into the spots close to where you say they are, with of course exception to the Angles and Saxons, who waited til Rome pulled out of Britannia before they took over. I think Jim already mentioned there was no Anglo-Saxon anything when Rome fell.

The story of Romulus and Remus is more myth than anything real. The things they wrote about those guys was Greek level demi-god type stuff.

Don't thank me yet lol

 

[for_his_glory]

Here's another reference to a mark on the forehead:
Eze 9:3-6
Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side; and the LORD said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.” To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

The word mark goes back to Genesis 4:15 as God set a mark on Cain. It wasn't a literal mark, but that of recognition. I believe this is the same in Ezekiel 9:4 as you have to go back to Ezekiel chapter 8 to understand Ezekiel 9:4. Ezekiel was caught up in the Spirit when he saw these visions of the six men, including the one clothed in linen with the inkhorn. They were cherubim sent to Jerusalem by God to slay all those who were an abomination to Him as they desecrated the Temple of God. The one who was clothed in linen with the inkhorn was called to set a mark upon those who lamented over the evil abominations that was being done before their eyes.

I believe it to be the same in Rev 13:16; 14:1 and 17:5. Man teaches it to be a literal marking, but scripture never defines this to be one way or the other. God doesn't need to literally mark those who are His own just as Satan doesn't need a literal marking of his own.

 

[Jim Parker]

The word mark goes back to Genesis 4:15 as God set a mark on Cain. It wasn't a literal mark, but that of recognition.

Interesting.

believe this is the same in Ezekiel 9:4 as you have to go back to Ezekiel chapter 8 to understand Ezekiel 9:4. Ezekiel was caught up in the Spirit when he saw these visions of the six men, including the one clothed in linen with the inkhorn. They were cherubim sent to Jerusalem by God to slay all those who were an abomination to Him as they desecrated the Temple of God. The one who was clothed in linen with the inkhorn was called to set a mark upon those who lamented over the evil abominations that was being done before their eyes.

That mark protected them from being slain by the Cherubim.
Cain's mark protected him from being slain by other men.

But, the idea of a distinguishing mark does go back to Cain. So the theme is found from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Roman empire that ran from 753BC to 27BC is the exact same one that ran from 753BC to 395AD. The date you are looking at is just the duration of the republic. The nation itself lasted until it's split in 395, after which it did nothing but lose territory until it's demise less than a hundred years later(the western half). It is at these times(400ish+AD) you will find the tribes you talk about being the ten moving into the spots close to where you say they are, with of course exception to the Angles and Saxons, who waited til Rome pulled out of Britannia before they took over. I think Jim already mentioned there was no Anglo-Saxon anything when Rome fell.

The story of Romulus and Remus is more myth than anything real. The things they wrote about those guys was Greek level demi-god type stuff.

Don't thank me yet lol

I agree the Roman Republic ended in 27BC as the Roman imperial began when the Senate and the people of Rome made Octavian governor also known as Augustus Caesar who reigned from January 16, 27BC to August 14AD. The Roman Imperial was from 27BC - 395AD, Western Roman Empire 395AD -476AD, Eastern Roman Empire 395AD - 1453.

The Anglo-Saxons (Germanic people) settled in England (Great Britain) around 410AD around the same time the Roman military left. The Anglo-Saxon period was from 410 to 1066 and ruled in England for about 500 years.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't see it that way.

That's OK as this is how I understand it from what is already written.

 

[Jim Parker]

I agree the Roman Republic ended in 27BC as the Roman imperial began when the Senate and the people of Rome made Octavian governor also known as Augustus Caesar who reigned from January 16, 27BC to August 14AD. The Roman Imperial was from 27BC - 395AD, Western Roman Empire 395AD -476AD, Eastern Roman Empire 395AD - 1453.

The Anglo-Saxons (Germanic people) settled in England (Great Britain) around 410AD around the same time the Roman military left. The Anglo-Saxon period was from 410 to 1066 and ruled in England for about 500 years.

The Angles and the Saxons are not the only people who make up "the British." They also include Celts, Welsh, Danes, Norwegians, Normans, Scots, Picts, plus Romans and others.

 

[Randy]

That's OK as this is how I understand it from what is already written.

Me to as I see the dragon as satan. The star that was cast down from heaven. And the angel of the abyss is in the same league as satan. Who is called Abaddon or Apollyon. A man can't release a being or beings from the abyss. Satan is given that key in the days of the sounding of the 5th trump.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Angles and the Saxons are not the only people who make up "the British." They also include Celts, Welsh, Danes, Norwegians, Normans, Scots, Picts, plus Romans and others.

I agree