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Have any of the 7 seals opened?

Deshong

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So I am a bit confused because some say yes and some say no because then that would begin the end of this 2nd earth age. I'm starting to think that although there have been evidence of seals 1-5, does not mean that seal has been opened.

My thinking is like the analogy used for God's wrath on His day. When the cup has filled to its brim, is when God will directly intervene because His patience has run out with the world (just all the wicked and ignorant people which is most the world unfortunately).

The first seal is about a white horse and a horsemen with a bow and a crown given to him and he went out conquering and to conquer. So basically meaning false Christianity (man's traditions - to cover up God's truth and lead many to be deceived). This has been going on for...I don't know someone correct me please if I'm wrong...since the beginning of humanity on earth? (Starting with Satan's lies to Eve and thereafter to any weak person, what I mean by weak is doubting God's word, simply could care less or lack of understanding.)

Therefore, how could the first seal have already been opened when Revelations seems to prophesize "what is to come" and for everyone who lives to see the last generation, Revelations is important to know and study because I hear we, right now, are in the last generation. And this generation will not pass away until all prophesies have been fulfilled. (Now that's not to say one can't die, but to say however long this generation will last, 40 years, 80 years, etc I don't know...but whatever the time frame, the events in Revelations will start and end with this generation we are in now...which is the last generation.) I have to document that too, so if anyone knows please help and correct me if I'm wrong.

So I'm starting to think that as the cup fills, the worse it gets and there is no doubting as we head further along into it. And when the cup is full, to say the corresponding seal's warning is at the worse it will have ever been in all of history, is when that corresponding seal in order, will open.

So what's the truth then, have any of the seals been opened yet or not?
 

John 8:32

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So I am a bit confused because some say yes and some say no because then that would begin the end of this 2nd earth age. I'm starting to think that although there have been evidence of seals 1-5, does not mean that seal has been opened.

My thinking is like the analogy used for God's wrath on His day. When the cup has filled to its brim, is when God will directly intervene because His patience has run out with the world (just all the wicked and ignorant people which is most the world unfortunately).

The first seal is about a white horse and a horsemen with a bow and a crown given to him and he went out conquering and to conquer. So basically meaning false Christianity (man's traditions - to cover up God's truth and lead many to be deceived). This has been going on for...I don't know someone correct me please if I'm wrong...since the beginning of humanity on earth? (Starting with Satan's lies to Eve and thereafter to any weak person, what I mean by weak is doubting God's word, simply could care less or lack of understanding.)

Therefore, how could the first seal have already been opened when Revelations seems to prophesize "what is to come" and for everyone who lives to see the last generation, Revelations is important to know and study because I hear we, right now, are in the last generation. And this generation will not pass away until all prophesies have been fulfilled. (Now that's not to say one can't die, but to say however long this generation will last, 40 years, 80 years, etc I don't know...but whatever the time frame, the events in Revelations will start and end with this generation we are in now...which is the last generation.) I have to document that too, so if anyone knows please help and correct me if I'm wrong.

So I'm starting to think that as the cup fills, the worse it gets and there is no doubting as we head further along into it. And when the cup is full, to say the corresponding seal's warning is at the worse it will have ever been in all of history, is when that corresponding seal in order, will open.

So what's the truth then, have any of the seals been opened yet or not?
First, Who can open the seals to our understanding?

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

And the chapter goes on to praise the Lamb. Now, we know who can open the seals and who we look to for understanding. So, as Shelby Stanga would say "Here we go."

Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
1) Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Now for the understanding...

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False ministers saying that Jesus is the Christ and deceiving the many. The first seal is religious deception.

2) Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

3) Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Famines. In the aftermath of war there is always famine. Another cause will be weather distrubances, blights, crop diseases, etc.

4) Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Wide spread death on the earth, disease epidemics, the aftermath of war, earthquakes (think Fukishima on a grander scale here) and other (un)natural occurrences.

5) Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Martyrdom of the saints.

6) Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The heavenly signs.

Seal #7 begins the seven trumpet plagues Trumpet Plagues

The first six seals are the Great Tribulation (2-1/2 years) and the seventh seal, the Trumpet Plagues, are the Day of the Lord (1 year). These combined, make up the final 3-1/2 years before the beginning of the Millenium as in Rev 20.

Now, have any seals been opened? Yes, and they stay opened once they are opened and continue to intensify. The first five seals have been opened, but be prepared for them to greatly intensify in the next several years.
 

Deshong

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I see, thanks for taking your time to explain it to me. :biggrin
 
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10s3r

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There's not one reason to believe that the first seal has anything to do with Christ, the Holy Spirit, or anything related to the Church.

I use to believe that the rider of the white horse was the anti-Christ like so many still do.

Some theories about the first seal's white horse and rider include; The RCC, the false prophet, the antichrist, the church, Michael the Archangel, Christ, the Holy Spirit, cold war, and my theory, "Holy War."

The most common belief is that the white horseman represents the antichrist but I now disagree with that since the man of sin isn't mentioned until chapter 13.
I believe we are in the midst of opening seals and the first two have passed and the other two aren't far behind.

I keep telling people that the current rebellion in the Mid-East/Arab World is the prophesied apostasy. It's creating prime conditions for the emergence of the end-time beast(s).

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are a disclosure or "unveiling" of people and events that help us see things coming which will eventually lead us to the open scroll and the revelation of the man of sin.

I believe the first and second seal have been opened....and they pass in pairs.

Isaiah 21:7 "When he sees riders, horsemen in pairs, A train of donkeys, a train of camels, Let him pay close attention, very close attention." 8 Then the lookout called, "O Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower, And I am stationed every night at my guard post. 9 "Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs." And one said, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon ; And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground."

Rev. 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev. 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
 
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10s3r

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When i re read revelations i will have to remember that the 4 horsemen are not 4 cowboys riding a horse.

Has anyone seen a white horse with some robin hood trying to claim your land?. :lol

"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer". :thumbsup
These guys don't wear cowboy hats. They wear turbans!
 
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10s3r

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A white horse with a crown and bow. A bow would mean weapons. A crown would be Power or someone in charge being either President or Dictator.
Conquering and to Conquer. What country likes fighting and being in power and wanting to rule?

LOL. Anyone can make anything up from Revelations. Look what i just made up. And it works. :lol
Anyone can make anything up from Revelation? Only if you don't have a sensible hermeneutic!

And I saw and, behold a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

No arrows? Not a weapon! A missile launcher is useless without a missile. A bow is a useless weapon without arrows.

Bow from Strong's lexicon.
5115. toxon tox'-on from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow.
At first it says a bow. Then it mentions a simple fabric. I have seen some Greek lexicon's or root word translate bow as "bough". (Turbans?)
The bow signifies the people who are out "conquering and to conquer."

The word bow is from the base word Tito #5088, (notice)
1) to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)
a) of a woman giving birth
of the earth bringing forth its fruits
c) metaph. to bear, bring forth

I think the bow symbolizes the offspring of the Ishmaelites and the Hagarites. I discovered that there are only a few people in the bible to whom a bow is personally attributed. They are Esau and Ishmael. Ishmael is the father of the Arabs. They, the Arab World, is currently engaged in the prophesied apostasy. Islam is the religious offspring of Ishmael via Muhammad who is engaged in a global holy war. Ishmael's offspring is today a mixture of many Arabic tribes and clans. They are also symbolized by the iron and clay of Daniel 2, and the terrorism described in Habakkuk 1-2. Muhammad is a descendants of Ishmael.

The bow is symbolic of a few things. One is "evil conquest and designs".
The other is that the Horseman's "bow" means to "struggle" against much travail in order to obtain a goal." Remember that jihad is "a struggle" and Islam's goal is world domination.
This seal describes the mission of holy war which is a 'struggle' to conquer the infidel and ultimately conquering the world.

Consider this...Maybe the rider himself is the ammunition just as the jihad warriors of September 11 were. Arrow is translated "missile" and the 911 jihadist had no missiles except the planes they were in! We can't assume the rider has arrows like some people do. Arrows aren't mentioned and we shouldn't assume they're implied. If Esau is said to take his bow hunting, then arrows are indirectly implied. If Ishmael is said to take his bow and go into battle, then we can assume they are implied. This prophecy doesn't mean that a white horse rider is out militarily conquering with a bow and arrows. I say it's symbolic of the people and religion doing the conquering. The rider is either Bin Laden or Muhammad. I think...Bin Laden.

As I was watching the north tower of The World Trade Center burn and the south tower was hit, out of the first billow of smoke that exited from the other side of the tower, I and many other people clearly saw the face of Satan in the first billows of smoke. I knew then that this was a significant event. I believe... September 11, 2001 authenticated the opening of the first seal and is symbolic of Holy War. Bin Laden called for holy war in 98 and he's been labeled "the worldwide symbol of holy war."

Interestingly, Muhammad or the Mahdi are said to return on a white horse and he's called "the seal of the prophets." But most people have no answer why this rider has no arrows. It's a bit unusual for a warrior, even a jihad warrior, to carry a bow without arrows.

The literal meaning of bow has some strange and interesting research results and this is how I associate the four horsemen with Islam and the Arab's. Bow from Strong's.
5115. toxon tox'-on from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow. At first it says a bow. Then it mentions a simple fabric. I have seen some Greek lexicon's or root word translate bow as "bough". (Turbans?)

The word bow is from the base word Tito #5088, (notice)
1) to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)
a) of a woman giving birth
of the earth bringing forth its fruits
c) metaph. to bear, bring forth

The bow is indicative of the people that are conquering and to conquer. (Islam/Jihadist/Holy War)
I think the bow symbolizes the offspring of the Ishmaelites and the Hagarites. I discovered that there are only a few people in the bible to whom a bow is personally attributed. They are Esau and Ishmael. Ishmael is the father of the Arabs. They, the Arab World, is currently engaged in the prophesied apostasy. Islam is the religious offspring of Ishmael which is engaged in a global holy war. Ishmael's offspring is today a mixture of the many Arabic tribes and clans. They are also symbolized by the iron and clay of Daniel 2, and the terrorism described in Habakkuk 1-2. Muhammad is a descendants of Ishmael.

The bow is symbolic of a few things. One is "evil conquest and designs".
The other is that the Horseman's "bow" means to "struggle" against much travail in order to obtain a goal." Remember that jihad is "a struggle" and Islam's goal is world domination.
This seal describes the mission of holy war which is a 'struggle' to conquer the infidel and ultimately conquering the world.

The bow is also used of God's judgment and also figurative of a counterfeit truth.

A literal weapon would have been indicated here if the rider did have arrows. Consider this...Maybe the rider himself is the ammunition just as the jihad warriors of September 11 were. Arrow is translated "missile" and the 911 jihadist had no missiles except the planes they were in! We can't assume the rider has arrows like some people do. Arrows aren't mentioned and we shouldn't assume they are. If Esau is said to take his bow hunting, then arrows are indirectly implied. If Ishmael is said to take his bow and go into battle, then we can assume they are implied. This prophecy doesn't mean that a white horse rider is out militarily conquering with a bow and arrows. I say it's symbolic of the people and religion doing the conquering. The rider is either Bin Laden or Muhammad. I think...Bin Laden.

A bow can signify a doctrine of truth, or a doctrine of falsehood and deceit. (Ps. 64:3, 4; Hos. 7:16; Jer. 9:3).

Jeremiah 9:3 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.

Hosea 7:16 They return, but not to the most High: they are like a deceitful bow: their princes shall fall by the sword for the rage of their tongue: this shall be their derision in the land of Egypt.

Crowns
In Exodus 39 crowns were worn by high priest. They were a plate of gold that was tied around the head with a ribbon. The Persians also wore crowns with a stone embedded in the ribbon. As I researched crowns, I found that crowns developed into turbans. (Smith's Bible Dictionary and Strong's Lexicon) Most people could not afford the gold plates or precious stones and voila! You have a turban!

crown-Greek, "stephanos," the garland or wreath of a conqueror,
http://www.bluelette...ngs=G4735&t=KJV
 
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10s3r

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But then again why do people think thee writters were so inteligent that
because it doesnt say arrow there is NO WAY it could be weapons or something
else. If i was to write a story i wouldnt need to say bow AND arrows. I just say
bow becaue its common sense arrows goes with a bow.
Arrows aren't mentioned so we shouldn't assume he has any unless the context warrants it which it doesn't. It's like assuming he has a quiver or a backpack!

A white horse with bow and crown and conquor seems nothing technical. Its basic.
No need to get all deep and meaninful on it.
I do get deep into the book of Revelation because it's not basic whatsoever and that's how I figure things out. That's why I use the lexicons. John was a first century man trying to describe something 2 millennia in the future. It's not as simple and basic as you think. It's as symbolic as it is literal and sometimes both in the same passage.

This may not be a literal bow as much of Revelation is figurative. The context of the verse simply indicates that he had a bow which the Greek definition is "as the simplest fabric." It's doubtful that it's a literal weapon of some sort because this seal is an end-time symbol and bows are no longer used in warfare. And war is attributed to the rider of the red horse.

The bow is used in Scripture in both a literal and figurative manner and only once in the NT here in Rev. 6:2. It's unlikely that a literal bow is intended here. It wasn't the favorite weapon of Rome and in modern warfare, a bow would be useless to conquer anything. (only used in hunting)

What's different about prophecy is that certain words are often used just once or twice in the prophetic passages whether figurative or literally. I'm not sure but I believe it's the textus receptus that translated it 'bough.' And remember 'toxon' also defines it as, 5115. toxon tox'-on from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow. Had John wanted to indicate a literal bow of some sort he possibly would have used this word.

2700. katatoxeuo kat-at-ox-yoo'-o from 2596 and a derivative of 5115; to shoot down with an arrow or other missile:--thrust through.

Ater a victory it was customary for a king to do a victory ride on a white horse. This rider is wearing a 'victors' crown.'

A crown was given to him and is a symbol of authority or right to rule. Was given indicates that this rider does not take authority, but that it is given to him like bin laden who is the worldwide symbol of holy war.

Is it not strange that of the many battles mentioned in the old testament, the word conquer is not used once? Rev. 6:2 is the only place the word 'nakao' which means overcome, prevail, or get the victory is translated conquer-ing. AV overcome 24, conquer 2, prevail 1, get the victory 1

However. The word conquer is used extensively by Muslims and in the koran. In holy war the mission is to "conquer" the infidel. I'm convinced that the quote "conquering and to conquer" reflects Islam's conquest in "holy war," and possibly the Palestinian conquest.
 
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10s3r

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Thats the problem christians have and why knowone can agree on anything. Christians ASSUME to much.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE SYMBOLISM OF THE BOW IS 'FALSEHOOD AND DECEIT.'

The white horse symbol of Rev.6:2 has had a host of DIFFERENT interpretations. Possibly as much as any other controversial end-time symbol. Bible scholars have attributed the first seal to Catholicism, the false prophet, the antichrist, Christ, the Holy Spirit, Michael the Archangel, and even "cold war." One belief is that the bow symbolizes a bow of peace, reflecting the peaceable entry of the antichrist but these arguments really have little or no scriptural support.

The most common belief about this passage is that it represents either Christ or the antichrist. My argument is that neither of these theories have any scriptural support either. Some say that Christ is the only one in scripture who rides a white horse. In Rev. 19, Christ does ride a white horse, but so do the heavenly armies that follow Him. Christ is never associated with a bow. He is mentioned as having a sharp sword and as having many crowns. In Revelation 19, Christ wears a "diadem," denoting a royal crown and universal dominion. This view suggest that the missing arrows symbolize the gospel that has gone forth into the world. Nowhere in the bible is the gospel referred to as a bow with missing arrows. And also, Christ is the one who is opening the seals! Why would he also be the rider of this white horse?

Now I could go on about all these theories but let me say this.

There are several mistakes in the KJV of the bible because it was translated by infallible men. So what I do is utilize as much of the original text as I can. I avoid the 'Textus Receptus' (received text) because I and many others have found too many mistakes in it. So why do I use resources closest to the original text?

Simply studying the Word of God in the English translation is ok most of the time. But to get the true intended meaning of any passage we must look at it in the language they spoke and wrote it in.

Most of us believe in the inspired Word of God. The word inspired means God breathed or God spoke. When God spoke to His servants the prophets, He spoke to them in the language they also spoke, understood, and wrote. So one of the most important parts of my hermeneutic is to research the definition of the words in the text in the language it was written in and look at how those same biblical words are used elsewhere in the bible...and accept the definition of those words regardless if it goes against what I already believe.

Also. I approach the scriptures as unbiased as I can. Most people who study God's Word do so in the light of what they already believe. Mainstream Christianity often has the incorrect interpretation of God's Word because they approach the scriptures with their already pre-conceived ideas and are often unwilling to reconsider other beliefs because they thing they already have the truth.

When I study the scriptures I also look at what others believe and then look at all the resources I have available, especially the lexicons, to see if those beliefs are supported by them.
This way I'm able to show people how I arrive at my conclusions.
 
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Skrumpelnubb

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Thats the problem christians have and why knowone can agree on anything. Christians ASSUME to much.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE SYMBOLISM OF THE BOW IS 'FALSEHOOD AND DECEIT.'

The white horse symbol of Rev.6:2 has had a host of DIFFERENT interpretations. Possibly as much as any other controversial end-time symbol. Bible scholars have attributed the first seal to Catholicism, the false prophet, the antichrist, Christ, the Holy Spirit, Michael the Archangel, and even "cold war." One belief is that the bow symbolizes a bow of peace, reflecting the peaceable entry of the antichrist but these arguments really have little or no scriptural support.

The most common belief about this passage is that it represents either Christ or the antichrist. My argument is that neither of these theories have any scriptural support either. Some say that Christ is the only one in scripture who rides a white horse. In Rev. 19, Christ does ride a white horse, but so do the heavenly armies that follow Him. Christ is never associated with a bow. He is mentioned as having a sharp sword and as having many crowns. In Revelation 19, Christ wears a "diadem," denoting a royal crown and universal dominion. This view suggest that the missing arrows symbolize the gospel that has gone forth into the world. Nowhere in the bible is the gospel referred to as a bow with missing arrows. And also, Christ is the one who is opening the seals! Why would he also be the rider of this white horse?

Now I could go on about all these theories but let me say this.

There are several mistakes in the KJV of the bible because it was translated by infallible men. So what I do is utilize as much of the original text as I can. I avoid the 'Textus Receptus' (received text) because I and many others have found too many mistakes in it. So why do I use resources closest to the original text?

Simply studying the Word of God in the English translation is ok most of the time. But to get the true intended meaning of any passage we must look at it in the language they spoke and wrote it in.

Most of us believe in the inspired Word of God. The word inspired means God breathed or God spoke. When God spoke to His servants the prophets, He spoke to them in the language they also spoke, understood, and wrote. So one of the most important parts of my hermeneutic is to research the definition of the words in the text in the language it was written in and look at how those same biblical words are used elsewhere in the bible...and accept the definition of those words regardless if it goes against what I already believe.

Also. I approach the scriptures as unbiased as I can. Most people who study God's Word do so in the light of what they already believe. Mainstream Christianity often has the incorrect interpretation of God's Word because they approach the scriptures with their already pre-conceived ideas and are often unwilling to reconsider their beliefs because they thing they already have the truth.

When I study the scriptures I also look at what others believe and then look at all the resources I have available, especially the lexicons, to see if those beliefs are supported by them.
This way I'm able to show people how I arrive at my conclusions.
That's a very good approach to the scriptures that you have.

In the context of the scriptures, the white horse in Rev 6:2, is the first in a number of horses. And that white horse marks the beginning of the tribulation whitch ends with Rev 6:12-13 that is equivalent to Matt 24:29. That means it most likely have to be the antichrist who is riding that horse.

The islamic prophecies describe Al Mahdi as "riding a white horse." They, the muslims, believe that Rev 6:2 in the Bible is about Al Mahdi who will come and rule the earth for seven years.
 
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Skrumpelnubb

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In the context of the scriptures, the white horse in Rev 6:2, is the first in a number of horses. And that white horse marks the beginning of the tribulation whitch ends with Rev 6:12-13 that is equivalent to Matt 24:29. That means it most likely have to be the antichrist who is riding that horse.

The islamic prophecies describe Al Mahdi as "riding a white horse." They, the muslims, believe that Rev 6:2 in the Bible is about Al Mahdi who will come and rule the earth for seven years.
If you believe this(I do), it answers the question of this thread.

No seals are opened yet.

The first seal will be opened when we see the islamic messiah Al Mahdi arrive.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUJwtJn13M0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
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10s3r

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That's a very good approach to the scriptures that you have.

In the context of the scriptures, the white horse in Rev 6:2, is the first in a number of horses. And that white horse marks the beginning of the tribulation whitch ends with Rev 6:12-13 that is equivalent to Matt 24:29. That means it most likely have to be the antichrist who is riding that horse.

The islamic prophecies describe Al Mahdi as "riding a white horse." They, the muslims, believe that Rev 6:2 in the Bible is about Al Mahdi who will come and rule the earth for seven years.
I believe that the first two seals have passed. Bin laden white and Saddam Hussein red.
I can't get into the red horse here because it's off topic. But I do believe that they pass in pairs.
Assad and Ahmadinejad are next!

The man of sin isn't mentioned until later in the book of Revelation. These seals are events and people leading up to the open scroll and the revelation of the man of sin which the current apostasy in the Arab world will produce.
 

Skrumpelnubb

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Get back to it later!
 
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10s3r

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Ok. Can someone show me where it explains that the meaning 'deciet' or 'false' is a ''bow". Im not trying to debate. I acturaly genuinely want to know this. Also show me more. I want to know meanings for lots of symbols. The more the better, Please tell me.

But you have to back it up with scripture so i know its true.
Hosea 7:15-16 Though I have bound and strengthened their arms, yet do they imagine mischief against me. They return, but not to the most High: they are like a deceitful bow:

Jeremiah 9:3 "They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land. They go from one sin to another; they do not acknowledge me," declares the LORD.
 
Psalm 78:57 But turned back, and dealt unfaithfully like their fathers: they were turned aside like a deceitful bow.

Psalms 64:3-4 KJV Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:
That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.
 
 
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10s3r

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In the context of the scriptures, the white horse in Rev 6:2, is the first in a number of horses. And that white horse marks the beginning of the tribulation whitch ends with Rev 6:12-13 that is equivalent to Matt 24:29. That means it most likely have to be the antichrist who is riding that horse.

The islamic prophecies describe Al Mahdi as "riding a white horse." They, the muslims, believe that Rev 6:2 in the Bible is about Al Mahdi who will come and rule the earth for seven years.
If you believe this(I do), it answers the question of this thread.

No seals are opened yet.

The first seal will be opened when we see the islamic messiah Al Mahdi arrive.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUJwtJn13M0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
There's a dispute between Sunni's and Shia's as to "who will welcome the Mahdi when he returns." Both Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei are prophetic koo-koos. They believe, and so does Islamic prophecy, that the Mahdi will return when the region (Arab World/Mid-East) will be in chaos. Ahmadinejad believes it's incumbent upon him to bring the region in that state of turmoil. This could happen soon since the Mahdi is said to return this year and North Korea who is friends with Iran is diverting the attention of the US to the Korean Peninsula.
That's why I think tribulation will begin before the Mahdi's return.
 

Skrumpelnubb

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There's a dispute between Sunni's and Shia's as to "who will welcome the Mahdi when he returns." Both Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei are prophetic koo-koos. They believe, and so does Islamic prophecy, that the Mahdi will return when the region (Arab World/Mid-East) will be in chaos. Ahmadinejad believes it's incumbent upon him to bring the region in that state of turmoil. This could happen soon since the Mahdi is said to return this year and North Korea who is friends with Iran is diverting the attention of the US to the Korean Peninsula. That's why I think tribulation will begin before the Mahdi's return.
Ok. But the Mahdi may have started his journey towards power some time before he is officially recognized as the Mahdi? And we may see the second horse,(war) or more, before we see him, I don't know?

I still think he is the rider of the white horse.

In any case it seem to me right now, that the Bible says, that the seals are marking the beginning and at least some part of the tribulation?
 
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10s3r

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Ok. But the Mahdi may have started his journey towards power some time before he is officially recognized as the Mahdi?
 
You might be right since in Islamic prophecy the Mahdi is said to return on a white horse and suppose to be the last Imam. But that's Islamic prophecy. He could be the rider of the black horse/3rd seal. I don't want to derail the thread on these other significant prophecies unrelated to the OP.
Andrew Harris said,

In the Shia tradition, Muhammad al-Mahdi was the last of the Twelve Imams. The Twelve Imams, except for the last one, were assassinated. The last Imam, who was the Twelfth Imam, went into 'occultation' - he became hidden from the world, and was known as the Hidden Imam. However, the Hidden Imam is expected to return from occultation, and the return of this Twelfth Imam, in many Islamic traditions, is likened to the Return of Christ. The Twelfth Imam was Muhammad al-Mahdi (and there are also beliefs about the Mahdi in other branches of Islam).
Despite the fact that Muslims say that Prophet Muhammad (of the Qur'an) was the last Prophet, it is also said that because the Mahdi said he would return, therefore another Prophet would appear. Also, the Mahdi appears to be a very specific Prophet.

And we may see the second horse,(war) or more, before we see him, I don't know?
Neither do I know. All we can do is look at all of it and remain open minded. I'll explain why Saddam could be the red horse rider someday and you might be surprised to see why.

I still think he is the rider of the white horse.
Could be! I've certainly wondered the same thing.

In any case it seem to me right now, that the Bible says, that the seals are marking the beginning and at least some part of the tribulation?
I'm not sure on that one.
I've always wondered if the seals are an encapsulation of the entire tribulation. I think it might start soon at the next opening of "a seal."
One prophetic Islamic guy says there will be a lunar eclipse just before the ramadan on the year of his return. Ramadan is July 8th and there's a lunar eclipse on April 25 visible from Asia.
 

Skrumpelnubb

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I've always wondered if the seals are an encapsulation of the entire tribulation. I think it might start soon at the next opening of "a seal." One prophetic Islamic guy says there will be a lunar eclipse just before the ramadan on the year of his return. Ramadan is July 8th and there's a lunar eclipse on April 25 visible from Asia.

I was wondering that too(encapsulation), especially since almost the same words are used by Rev 6:12-13 as Matt 24:29. Next verses is about the return of Jesus, Matt 24:30-31.

I think the angels with trumpets and bowls must come between Matt 24:29 and Matt 24:30-31? But after the seventh seal. So it could be more tribulation, the worst part, after the last seal?
 
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10s3r

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I was wondering that too(encapsulation), especially since almost the same words are used by Rev 6:12-13 as Matt 24:29. Next verses is about the return of Jesus, Matt 24:30-31
.


I've gone back and forth on the encapsulation thing. But right now I'm beginning to think that Revelation is chronological with some overlaps. One reason is because of the verses you quoted.

Revelation 6:12-13 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

After the tribulation the moon in Mt. 24 doesn't her give light. That's different than a moon that is said to be blood red. Granted they are both celestial events but I think the difference is that the blood red moon is at the beginning of tribulation just after the opening of the first 4 seals which would also be confirmed by a great earthquake most likely in the Middle-East. The reason for that is when pollutants are released into the atmosphere it causes the moon to appear red especially when it first rises. As the tribulation progresses and gets worse with natural disasters like volcanoes to add to the mix eventually the moon will be darkened...after tribulation.
 

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