Hellfire texts explained as annihilation

[FineLinen]

I have the Holy Spirit to assist with my understanding and wisdom concerning the Word of God.

Congratulations, Solo: you fried the wrong eggs!! :-D

The truth is that the evil that have died will be ressurected to face their everlasting punishment which Jesus calls their damnation.

I asked you....

Solo: Is the everlasting punishment which the Lord Jesus Christ calls their damnation, the same damnation that begins at the house of God?

My brothers, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive greater damnation.

Solo replied...

It is their judgement. The judgement of the lost is eternal punishment, the judgement of the saved is eternal life.

So, the damnation that begins at the house of God is not eternal damnation? And, the greater damnation of the brethren is not eternal damnation, but eternal life.

Greater Damnation = Greater eternal life.

I am beginning to grasp your thinking?

 

[Solo]

I have the Holy Spirit to assist with my understanding and wisdom concerning the Word of God.

Congratulations, Solo: you fried the wrong eggs!! :-D

The truth is that the evil that have died will be ressurected to face their everlasting punishment which Jesus calls their damnation.

I asked you....

Solo: Is the everlasting punishment which the Lord Jesus Christ calls their damnation, the same damnation that begins at the house of God?

My brothers, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive greater damnation.

Solo replied...

[quote:e0187]It is their judgement. The judgement of the lost is eternal punishment, the judgement of the saved is eternal life.

So, the damnation that begins at the house of God is not eternal damnation? And, the greater damnation of the brethren is not eternal damnation, but eternal life.

Greater Damnation = Greater eternal life.

I am beginning to grasp your thinking?

[/quote:e0187]
Judgment leads to eternal life forever and ever, or eternal punishment and fire forever and ever.

 

[mutzrein]

Solo

My last post asked a question about how you perceived me and since you have answered other posts I thought you may have overlooked mine.
So - just wondering if you can give me an answer.

Thanks

 

[Solo]

Solo

My last post asked a question about how you perceived me and since you have answered other posts I thought you may have overlooked mine.
So - just wondering if you can give me an answer.

Thanks

mutzrein
I perceive you as not believing that Jesus is God, therefore most of your posts are suspect. One does not have to believe that Jesus is God prior to salvation, but after salvation one knows Jesus and understands that he is in fact, God.

Also, some of your writings have a flavor of truth, but most of the time your writings come across as subtle inroads into teaching false doctrines. I find the teachings of cults a satanic deception and influence, and many in todays world are falling prey to false doctrines of devils because of the times being near the end. I don't know what group you worship with or what denominations you are and have been affiliated with, but I find some of your positions similar to the cults that I have mentioned. I do not know if you belong to one of these, but I do see that your position on some items are similar. I do not know your testimony, so I cannot make a determination about your salvation, but the fact that you lean towards cultic teachings, I find your position suspect.

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?
Do you believe in an eternal state of punishment in torment for the unbelieving?
Do you believe that Jesus rose bodily into heaven?
Do you believe that Jesus was God before he was in the flesh?
Do you believe that God came in the flesh?
Do you believe that Jesus created the heavens and the earth?
Do you believe that the Spirit of God is God?
What must a person do to be born again, born of God?
Do you have the mind of Christ?

Thanks

 

[FineLinen]

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?

As a moderator you should be aware of the fact that this false doctrine cannot be discussed on this site! Please resist and desist from asking leading questions. Thanks

 

[FineLinen]

Judgment leads to eternal life forever and ever, or eternal punishment and fire forever and ever.

Damnation leads to eternal life forever and ever? Can you answer a few questions for we moat monsters?

Questions:

1. Is all damnation equal?

2. Is the greater damnation of the scribes and pharisee's the same as the greater damnation of the brethren, "my brothers"?

3. Is the damnation that begins at the house of God greater damnation, or regular damnation?

The truth is that the evil that have died will be ressurected to face their everlasting punishment which Jesus calls their damnation.

My brothers, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive greater damnation.

 

[FineLinen]

I have the Holy Spirit to assist with my understanding and wisdom concerning the Word of God.

Mutzrein I perceive...

I am born of God - and since I believe and proclaim that Jesus is the one and only true son of God, conceived of God's spirit, born of a virgin, inheriting the righteousness of God with all the attributes of perfection attributed to the Father, and without sin or blemish, I have no hesitation in saying He is my Lord & Saviour but he is not his own father.....

But you know, whether or not you believe one such as I does not know God matters not to me. What matters is, I know my redeemer and he knows me. And I have a wonderful freedom to proclaim the grace of God which has made it possible for one such as I to walk and live by faith in the power of His Holy Spirit.

I would however suggest to you that before you proclaim to any other person that they cannot have this relation with God without believing as you, you reflect on God's knowledge & power and ask yourself, how much do I really understand?

 

[Solo]

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?

As a moderator you should be aware of the fact that this false doctrine cannot be discussed on this site! Please resist and desist from asking leading questions. Thanks

FineLinen,
It is obvious in my post, that I was discussing the false beliefs of some, and was not discussing UR. Please do not moderate on this forum until you have been formally asked. Until then, the administration will monitor my actions on this forum and will advise me of any errors that I have done. To this point I have not had any warnings from adminstrators.

Are you a believer of UR?

Please do not post negatively to any moderator or administrator on this forum again, or you will get a formal warning.

Thank you,
Solo

 

[DivineNames]

Your unbelief and attacks on Christianity show who you worship as god, and your inability to see the truth of God's Word will lead you straight to hell if you do not repent. This is a warning of love, pardner, so get it straight or you will regret your rebellious nature.

But seriously, there is nothing "rebellious" about rejecting Christianity. If I believed that Christianity was true, and that it was moral, then I would become a Christian. (The two points are closely connected, that it isn't moral is one reason why I think it false). That I "attack" Christianity doesn't show who I worship, in the way that you imply. It is simply a matter of truth.

 

[mutzrein]

Solo

My last post asked a question about how you perceived me and since you have answered other posts I thought you may have overlooked mine.
So - just wondering if you can give me an answer.

Thanks

mutzrein
I perceive you as not believing that Jesus is God, therefore most of your posts are suspect. One does not have to believe that Jesus is God prior to salvation, but after salvation one knows Jesus and understands that he is in fact, God.

Also, some of your writings have a flavor of truth, but most of the time your writings come across as subtle inroads into teaching false doctrines. I find the teachings of cults a satanic deception and influence, and many in todays world are falling prey to false doctrines of devils because of the times being near the end. I don't know what group you worship with or what denominations you are and have been affiliated with, but I find some of your positions similar to the cults that I have mentioned. I do not know if you belong to one of these, but I do see that your position on some items are similar. I do not know your testimony, so I cannot make a determination about your salvation, but the fact that you lean towards cultic teachings, I find your position suspect.

Solo

What on earth these questions have to do with anything beats me but just to satisfy your need to know ‘who’ I am, here it is.

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?

- Meaning all of mankind will be saved? - No

Do you believe in an eternal state of punishment in torment for the unbelieving?

- For those who have not received the Spirit of Life - No

Do you believe that Jesus rose bodily into heaven?

- Inasmuch as he was taken up and seen to disappear into a cloud? - Yes

Do you believe that Jesus was God before he was in the flesh?

- No. Distinctly different. He was the word of God through whom all was created. “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.â€Â

Do you believe that God came in the flesh?

- No. No man has seen God. The word of God, through whom all was created was sent by God in the form of man as a spotless lamb so that man, through Him, may be reconciled to God.

Do you believe that Jesus created the heavens and the earth?

- God created the heavens and the earth through His son (the word of God)

Do you believe that the Spirit of God is God?

- God is a Spirit. When Jesus returned to the Father He asked the Father to send His Spirit (the Spirit of Life) as a deposit to those who would inherit eternal life.

What must a person do to be born again, born of God?

- Nothing – the same as any person born of flesh. Just as you and I had no part to play in choosing birth in the flesh, so it is with the man who is born of God. However, once born he has the knowledge and understanding of his relationship to God and because of this relationship can unequivocably proclaim faith & belief in Christ.

Do you have the mind of Christ?

- I know that there is no greater joy in knowing that the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, dwells in me. And I have nothing to boast of, save Christ my Lord. So while I know I have the mind of Christ it is not something I use to lord over others in an effort to seem more spiritual than them.

 

[FineLinen]

What on earth these questions have to do with anything beats me but just to satisfy your need to know ‘who’ I am, here it is.

Don't be silly mutzrein. The "correct" answers to questions presented qualify those who are walking in deepest union with the Living God. :-D A couple of years ago on another glorious thread, I had a laddy tell me to answer my own questions and he would tell me if I was right or wrong. :o I think it may be time for a song! Please turn on your audio and see....

What You Can Learn From The Dog

HERE

 

[FineLinen]

Ah, that felt good! By the way my brother, your response to Solo the other day declares clearly your union with the Living One (at least for this moat monster! (F.L.)

I am born of God - and since I believe and proclaim that Jesus is the one and only true son of God, conceived of God's spirit, born of a virgin, inheriting the righteousness of God with all the attributes of perfection attributed to the Father, and without sin or blemish, I have no hesitation in saying He is my Lord & Saviour but he is not his own father.....

But you know, whether or not you believe one such as I does not know God matters not to me. What matters is, I know my redeemer and he knows me. And I have a wonderful freedom to proclaim the grace of God which has made it possible for one such as I to walk and live by faith in the power of His Holy Spirit.

I would however suggest to you that before you proclaim to any other person that they cannot have this relation with God without believing as you, you reflect on God's knowledge & power and ask yourself, how much do I really understand?

 

[guibox]

Also, some of your writings have a flavor of truth, but most of the time your writings come across as subtle inroads into teaching false doctrines. I find the teachings of cults a satanic deception and influence, and many in todays world are falling prey to false doctrines of devils because of the times being near the end. I don't know what group you worship with or what denominations you are and have been affiliated with, but I find some of your positions similar to the cults that I have mentioned.

Interesting that usually one group brands another group a 'cult' simply because their views (no matter how supportable from the Bible) do not agree with the first group's preconceived ideas based on simply majority opinion for their validity.

For example: Solo and others here would brand Seventh Day Adventism a cult because they believe in the Sabbath (despite overwhelming biblical evidence in support of it, and many other Christian denominations who do as well), and that the dead await resurrection (despite the overwhelming biblical evidence for it and of which Reformers like Luther and Tyndale believed as well), or that God will carry out the sentence of death instead of eternal suffering (of which there is overwhelming biblical support for and many other scholars from other denominations are seeing that eternal torment is a false Catholic doctrine).

Simply because the majority of the Christian world believes in Sunday sacredness and that God will torture His children for billions of years. Any other deviation from the Catholic doctrine they were brought up with is automaticaly considered a 'cultic doctrine'.

Sad. This is exactly what the Catholic Church felt when Protestantism reared it's head against it. Orthodoxy, apologetics and tradition trump the clear teaching of the Word of God.

 

[Drew]

On the matter of how this (and any other) topic is debated: My opinion is that "arguments" that essentially reduce to an effort to "pin the cult label" on a certain position, without some kind of substantive effort to critique the content of the position itself, have no place in a serious discussion of the topic at hand. One has every reason to be at least suspicious of the validity of a position that is never clearly defended biblically and / or supported with rational argument. It would be nice if simply quoting Biblical texts was sufficient to support an argument, but I think it is obvious that the world does not work this way.

I think we are called to honour the Scriptures - and this involves thinking carefully and deeply about what they have to say. My experience in trying to do this, limited though it has been, has led me to conclude that much scriptural richness can only be extracted by abandoning the default inclination to simply take the words at their literal face value. Instead, we should consider the entire body of Biblical writings and at least make an effort to construct a position that harmonizes with all the relevant texts.

All this implies work - getting to know about the culture from which the texts spring, giving appropriate consideration to the possibility of metaphorical usage, deriving global themes, etc. The approach of looking at a single verse in isolation, reading it literally, and building a view on it does not seem all that wise to me.

 

[stovebolts]

All this implies work - getting to know about the culture from which the texts spring, giving appropriate consideration to the possibility of metaphorical usage, deriving global themes, etc. The approach of looking at a single verse in isolation, reading it literally, and building a view on it does not seem all that wise to me.

Well Said Drew.

Simply put Guibox:

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist

Your text merely is a factual statement of authority of God over all.

Meerly? BTW, it's not my text.

I find it ironic that you can dig so deep into one word (hell), then dismiss an entire passage so easily. It kind of reminds me of straining for a gnat, yet swallowing a camel :-D

 

[mutzrein]

What on earth these questions have to do with anything beats me but just to satisfy your need to know ‘who’ I am, here it is.

Don't be silly mutzrein. The "correct" answers to questions presented qualify those who are walking in deepest union with the Living God. :-D A couple of years ago on another glorious thread, I had a laddy tell me to answer my own questions and he would tell me if I was right or wrong. :o I think it may be time for a song! Please turn on your audio and see....

What You Can Learn From The Dog

HERE

LOL - Good medicine.

I appreciate your comments.

And for you - perhaps a bit of insight in the word 'mutzrein'. It means nothing really - just a word I made up when I had to have a name to be registered as a breeding kennel for german shepherd dogs. It has a german kind of sound to it but really it says 'Muts Reign' or for the real hard of hearing which I know you are not - 'Dogs Rule'. Well they did for a while over our household but gone are the days - although we still have a couple of beautiful aging muts.

Now - back to the topic in hand . . .