What's new
Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Online forum for sale. Please send Stovebolts PM for details. https://meetchristians.net
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Hostile Atheists And "Shake Dust" And "Casting Pearls."

JAG ..

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
322
Christian
Yes
Question: Under what circumstances is it Biblically warranted for Christians to
apply the New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" to
atheists and other unbelievers who are hostile to the gospel message and hostile
to the arguments of Christian Apologists who defend the Bible and defend Christianity
and defend the God of the Bible?

Casting pearls.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."___The Lord
Jesus in Matthew 7:6

Shake dust
"And if any place will not welcome you and listen to you, shake the dust off your feet
when you leave, as a testimony against them." Mark 6: 11 {The Lord Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 10:14}

The New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" appear to give
Christians a Biblical warrant to refuse to continue talking to those who are hostile
and who oppose our Christian message. What do you think about this? Agree?

My view is that as long as hostile atheists and unbelievers are willing to keep on
listening to our gospel message and to our apologetical defense of the Christian faith,
then we have no Biblical warrant to refuse to continue to talk to them and we ought not to "shake dust" against them or apply "casting pearls" to them. Do you agree with this?

Take a look at Acts 13:50-51
"They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and expelled them from their
region. So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to
Iconium."

These are the only instances of "shake dust" in the New Testament (so far as I know).
■ Mark 6:11
■ Matthew 10:14
■ Acts 13:50-51

Note the key phrases in those 3 New Testament passages on "shake dust."

(1) "will not listen to you" {Mark 6:11 and Matthew 10:14}
(2) "stirred up persecution" against them {Acts 13:50-51}
(3) "expelled them" from their region {Acts 13:50-51}

Proposition: No Christian has a Biblical warrant for applying "shake dust" or
"casting pearls" to anyone that is willing to at least listen to the message of
Christianity. Do you agree?

Some closing thoughts on "shake dust" :

(A) Mainstream Christendom does not interpret "shake dust" literally as something Christians have a moral obligation to do.

(B) The purpose of "shake dust" is to show separation from those that will not listen to the message of Christianity. The logic of this seems compelling. How so? Because if the unbelievers will not listen, there is no alternative but to separate from them.

What would the Christian do when faced with people that will not listen? Just stand there for hours and hours looking at them? Yell at them? Insist that they listen?

No none of those things would be sane.

The only sane alternative to those who will not listen is to leave them alone and go find people that will at least listen to the Christian message.

(C) 99.9% of Christendom takes "shake dust" as figurative language and not as a moral obligation and not as something to literally do as in beating your shoes on the sidewalk to shake off the dust on them.

In closing, here is the question that this Opening Post asks:

Under what circumstances is it Biblically warranted for Christians to apply the New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" to atheists and other unbelievers?

What say you?

___________

By the way . . .
Have you personally ever been in a situation where you applied "shake dust" or "casting pearls" to anyone?



`
 

JAG ..

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
322
Christian
Yes
Continued From The Opening Post . .

A Few More Thoughts On "Casting pearls" . . .

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."___The Lord
Jesus in Matthew 7:6

Now to be sure some Christians have misapplied "do not cast pearls" by applying that to atheists or other unbelievers in thread-argumentation who continue to disagree with them. Some Christians will post "I'm through talking to you because Jesus said do not cast your pearls to pigs" in Matthew 7:6

But when atheists and unbelievers continue to disagree with them, that is not sufficient grounds to apply "do not cast pearls." Why not? Because continued disagreement does not rise to the level of "turn and tear you to pieces."

So when would a Christian be justified in applying "do not cast your pearls before
pigs" ?

Suggested answer: Well maybe when the person they are talking to gives evidence that they are the kind of person that will "turn and tear you to pieces", that is, people that can honestly be characterized as being like this:

- hostile
- snarling
- ill-tempered
- growling
- violent
- abusive

My conclusion:

The criteria above maybe should be present before any Christian can have Biblical warrant to apply, to their adversaries, the New Testament concepts of "do not cast your pearls before pigs."

What say you?
 

dianegcook

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
1,803
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
What say I?
That can happen amongst the Christians also.
Look at the different denominations.

Look at the 7 churches in Rev.
Only 2 was found without fault.

Example:
I believe that the giants of Gen.6: were the result of fallen angels mixing with the daughters of men.
Num.13:33 we were like grasshoppers to them...

I tell believers this, but some get angry, and may shun me.

Thus, "shake the dust" per se.

We are to plant seeds, but God makes it grow.
Jesus didn't argue with them.
Thus, don't trample the Word of God..
 

Truthfrees

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
3,231
Gender
Male
Question: Under what circumstances is it Biblically warranted for Christians to
apply the New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" to
atheists and other unbelievers who are hostile to the gospel message and hostile
to the arguments of Christian Apologists who defend the Bible and defend Christianity
and defend the God of the Bible?

Casting pearls.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."___The Lord
Jesus in Matthew 7:6

Shake dust
"And if any place will not welcome you and listen to you, shake the dust off your feet
when you leave, as a testimony against them." Mark 6: 11 {The Lord Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 10:14}

The New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" appear to give
Christians a Biblical warrant to refuse to continue talking to those who are hostile
and who oppose our Christian message. What do you think about this? Agree?

My view is that as long as hostile atheists and unbelievers are willing to keep on
listening to our gospel message and to our apologetical defense of the Christian faith,
then we have no Biblical warrant to refuse to continue to talk to them and we ought not to "shake dust" against them or apply "casting pearls" to them. Do you agree with this?

Take a look at Acts 13:50-51
"They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and expelled them from their
region. So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to
Iconium."

These are the only instances of "shake dust" in the New Testament (so far as I know).
■ Mark 6:11
■ Matthew 10:14
■ Acts 13:50-51

Note the key phrases in those 3 New Testament passages on "shake dust."

(1) "will not listen to you" {Mark 6:11 and Matthew 10:14}
(2) "stirred up persecution" against them {Acts 13:50-51}
(3) "expelled them" from their region {Acts 13:50-51}

Proposition: No Christian has a Biblical warrant for applying "shake dust" or
"casting pearls" to anyone that is willing to at least listen to the message of
Christianity. Do you agree?

Some closing thoughts on "shake dust" :

(A) Mainstream Christendom does not interpret "shake dust" literally as something Christians have a moral obligation to do.

(B) The purpose of "shake dust" is to show separation from those that will not listen to the message of Christianity. The logic of this seems compelling. How so? Because if the unbelievers will not listen, there is no alternative but to separate from them.

What would the Christian do when faced with people that will not listen? Just stand there for hours and hours looking at them? Yell at them? Insist that they listen?

No none of those things would be sane.

The only sane alternative to those who will not listen is to leave them alone and go find people that will at least listen to the Christian message.

(C) 99.9% of Christendom takes "shake dust" as figurative language and not as a moral obligation and not as something to literally do as in beating your shoes on the sidewalk to shake off the dust on them.

In closing, here is the question that this Opening Post asks:

Under what circumstances is it Biblically warranted for Christians to apply the New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" to atheists and other unbelievers?

What say you?

___________

By the way . . .
Have you personally ever been in a situation where you applied "shake dust" or "casting pearls" to anyone?



`
Continued From The Opening Post . .

A Few More Thoughts On "Casting pearls" . . .

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."___The Lord
Jesus in Matthew 7:6

Now to be sure some Christians have misapplied "do not cast pearls" by applying that to atheists or other unbelievers in thread-argumentation who continue to disagree with them. Some Christians will post "I'm through talking to you because Jesus said do not cast your pearls to pigs" in Matthew 7:6

But when atheists and unbelievers continue to disagree with them, that is not sufficient grounds to apply "do not cast pearls." Why not? Because continued disagreement does not rise to the level of "turn and tear you to pieces."

So when would a Christian be justified in applying "do not cast your pearls before
pigs" ?

Suggested answer: Well maybe when the person they are talking to gives evidence that they are the kind of person that will "turn and tear you to pieces", that is, people that can honestly be characterized as being like this:

- hostile
- snarling
- ill-tempered
- growling
- violent
- abusive

My conclusion:

The criteria above maybe should be present before any Christian can have Biblical warrant to apply, to their adversaries, the New Testament concepts of "do not cast your pearls before pigs."

What say you?
What say I?
That can happen amongst the Christians also.
Look at the different denominations.

Look at the 7 churches in Rev.
Only 2 was found without fault.

Example:
I believe that the giants of Gen.6: were the result of fallen angels mixing with the daughters of men.
Num.13:33 we were like grasshoppers to them...

I tell believers this, but some get angry, and may shun me.

Thus, "shake the dust" per se.

We are to plant seeds, but God makes it grow.
Jesus didn't argue with them.
Thus, don't trample the Word of God..
agree - if they don't want to talk then it's best to leave them alone until they are ready to talk -
 

JAG ..

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
322
Christian
Yes
agree - if they don't want to talk then it's best to leave them alone until they are ready to talk - this includes christians - hostility is proof they are not ready for interaction - can't think of anyone i dealt with that heard anything i said while they were hostile

when i go soul-winning - sharing the gospel - i ask them a lot of questions about what they know and what they believe - that seems to open the door for them to hear the gospel afterward - people want to be heard - i find what people believe about God is valuable information i can use to tailor the gospel message to their specific perspective
Truthfrees.
Agreed.
It all makes good sense to me.
Thanks for the good thoughts.
 

Who Me

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
955
Gender
Male
Under what circumstances is it Biblically warranted for Christians to
apply the New Testament concepts of "shake dust" and "casting pearls" to
atheists and other unbelievers who are hostile to the gospel message and hostile
to the arguments of Christian Apologists who defend the Bible and defend Christianity
and defend the God of the Bible?
Depends entirely on there attitude.
If you are talking on the interneton Christian Reddit or Christian forum or worthy of any of the other forums you will encounter atheists who love to politely debate with you.
They aren't interested in seeking the truth, just in trying to unstabilise your faith.

How long you spend talking to them is up to you.
I think that polite debates can help undo some of the negative impressions atheists have of Christians.
That saidcit is a different ball game if you go onto an atheist forum, often there are no rules, or no rules that will be enforced about Christians being abused.

Face to face, it is the same. A genuine conversation should be continued, but one where the aim is to destroy your faith should be stopped.

Key questions:-
Why or what do you believe that?
What evidence do you have for that belief?
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Administrator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
16,021
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

There is an analogy about the dog in Proverbs 26:10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors. 11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

There is a dual reference to both dog and swine in 2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These verses all tie together as judging others or another word using discernment within those we take the Gospel to that need to hear it. The terms dog and pigs are an analogy of those who reject the Gospel after hearing it as they trample it and return back to their evil ways. It's the same with hypocrites as they love to judge others, but yet also trample the Gospels and return to their own conceits.

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

If the dogs and swine (people) refuse to listen to the Gospel being preached to them then don't judge them, but walk away from them as they will never receive it as it is already discerned in their rejection and the fool (one who rejects) and transgressor (conceited hypocrite) already have their reward being already judged by God.
 

GodIsMySavior

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
27
Gender
Male
Great thread. "Casting dust"is a Jewish/Hebrew idiom used thru-out the Bible.
This is referring to those who don't come to the faith of Jesus, which includes all other religions outside of Christianity....Jews[Judaism], Muslims[Islam], Hindus, [and of course atheists]....etc.

Note Mark 6:11 and Reve 18:19 concerning the destruction of the great City of Jerusalem:

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever no should be receiving ye, nor-yet should be hearing the words of ye, coming out outside of the house or of the city, that, shake off!/ektinaxate <1621> (5657) the dust/koniorton <2868> of thine feet.

Mark used a different Greek word for "dust" in this verse. It is also used 1 other time in the covenantle book of Revelation

Mark 6:11 And who soever should not be receiving ye, nor should be hearing of-ye, going out thence, shake off! the dust/coun <5522> the underneath thine feet into a testimony to-them. Amen I say unto ye, it shall be more tolerable to-Sodom or Gomorrha in a day of judgment than that City". [#5522 used in Revelation 18:19]

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust/coun <5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying "Woe! Woe! the City, the Great, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness!
that in one hour She was desolated.

 
Last edited:

Sparkey

Retired
Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
10,779
Gender
Male
There was once a poor (impoverished) Christian who had learned to content himself and walk with the Lord in all things. Let's call him Joe.

Joe was in the habit of not only praying to God but also simply talking to him throughout his day. One day, he came upon a homeless person and while still out of earshot, asked, "May I serve You and help this one?"

Joe waited for an answer but heard nothing It wasn't long before he went ahead and dropped a couple dollars into the begger's plate.

The homeless guy seemed a friendly sort so Joe invited him over to his home and offered to share a meal.

Now, unbeknownst to Joe, it turned out that this particular person was not of the violent kind. Good thing. But he was an addict. Joe knew the Scripture, 'They will obey the Master to whom they present their members to,' but it somehow didn't rise to the forefront of his mind in time to prevent the folly he was planning. The lesson he was about to learn would not be too harsh for Joe to bear.

While sitting with his new friend at the table, Joe closed his eyes to ask the blessing over their meal. The guest took that opportunity to start sneaking valuables into a knapsack.

Were they pearls? No. It was just a piece or two of the antique silverware Joe had inheireted.

_____________

Our Father in heaven wants nothing but good to befall His children. Sometimes, though, exceptions are made. Joe was not hurt. He accepted the entire circumstance with thanks and asked his Father to write the lesson deep so he might learn from his valuable experience.

It is okay to leave and shun before suffering harm.
 

Luminous_Rose

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
1,375
Gender
Female
The "shake dust" definitely applies to those who are too hard hearted to accept the message of the Lord. Those that will not listen no matter what words are used. In the sole purpose of evangelism, it wouldn't be wise to stick around and try and force someone to believe in God's Truth. It's counterproductive and would only make them more hard hearted against the message. Everyone makes the decision to accept or decline the Good News and if someone is listening to what you're saying with an open heart and an open mind then go for it! You're not forcing if they are willingly listening and then there is a chance to plant that seed of salvation there.

I guess back then walking around with probably sandals on your feet in those desert-y areas they sure got dusty! So, I think it's a way of saying, "Clean up, you're done here and go to the next place." Do not take the hard-heartedness with you, but remain positive and focus on what's ahead.

Matthew 7:6 is a fun verse for discussion. It seems to have so many different interpretations to it. I see it as we shouldn't keep offering things of importance or a high value to people out there that don't have an appreciation for it. For example, you find out a brother in Christ needs a new car because he's been having some seemingly difficult times so you choose to bless him with a vehicle you own that isn't the prettiest, but it runs and works well. You offer the car, they say, "But this thing is hideous! I wouldn't be seen driving that?" At this point do we even try to press the matter? They are attacking your generosity. You casted pearls before the swine, you gave what was important to the dogs (as of course a totally allegorical thing...the people aren't literally swine or dogs and someone here isn't literally putting perals under a pig's feet). A pig cannot appreciate pearls as they don't understand their value, and a dog cannot appreciate something of high value - they don't have that kind of thinking like we do. So giving something to a person that throws it in your face and doesn't get it because they either don't understand the love of Jesus and/or don't have a thankful heart.

I heard someone give an interesting interpretation of this. While I cannot say it is totally accurate or anything pertaining to this scripture, they did have a good point. They mentioned not giving a gift that could harm someone more than help. For example, you see a man and he's not quite homeless, but he lives in the slums of town, can barely afford to feed his wife and kids, his house needs countless repairs, he doesn't own a car, and he doesn't even have the money to run the AC all summer. You see this man and want to help him so you figure you'll buy him a $50,000 watch. Surely buying this man an expensive watch will help him out, right? So you gift him the expensive watch. He takes it, with some hesitation at first because of how expensive it must be, and you say, "God bless you." You both part ways and while he walks into his neighborhood, his expensive watch is noticed and he gets mugged. Did you cast your pearls before swine? Did you throw $50,000 out to the dogs to shred? That $50,000 could have purchased a nice, used car, get this man a nice interview suit for a job, some colleges classes, home repairs, utility bills, and/or food depending how you do it. That would've been a better way to use the money, to get him what he needed instead of putting him in danger with a flashy, expensive gift that was of no use to him.
 

Prycejosh1987

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
245
Gender
Male
Casting pearls.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."___The Lord
Jesus in Matthew 7:6
People think casting pearls before swine is just in terms of talking about Jesus, it has many meanings, Such as caring about people that have no regard for the person, and working a job where the person is not valued and supported. It has many meanings, the typical understanding is that it related to evangelism. Remember what the bible says about people that constantly sin against you with no regard. Matthew 18.15-17.
 
Top