How can the trinity be one God?

[JLB]

So wisdom is personified in Proverbs, I agree. But wisdom is something we seek, like the knowledge of God and understanding and insight. I could say, like Paul does, that Christ is the power and wisdom of God 1 Cor. 1:24 and God made Christ our wisdom. 1 Cor. 1:30 So the me in Proverbs 8:22-31 is Christ. Or I could take a different approach, but I would come to the same conclusion. Wisdom is calling, pay attention. Pr. 8:22-31 is knowledge of the LORD. Therefore the me in Pr. 8 is Christ based on the knowledge Jesus gave us that he was with God in the beginning. John 17:5, John 17:24

The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old. Proverbs 8:22


The Spirit of wisdom of one of the seven Spirits of the Lord.


There shall come forth a Rod from the [b]stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
Isaiah 11:1-2


When the Lord created all things, He did so by wisdom.


The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;
By understanding He established the heavens;
Proverbs 3:19





JLB

 

[MarkT]

Mark,

Who was/is Jesus before he became a human being? See John 1:1, 14.

Has God the Son ever ceased existing?

Oz

You mean has the Son of God ever ceased existing? I'd say No.

I'd say he was the light. The first act of God was the light. The Word refers to the light. The light took various forms such as a burning bush, a pillar of cloud and a pillar of fire. He appeared to Abraham in the form of God. He was with God in the beginning. He was God to Abraham, Issac and Jacob, but who he was, the Son, was not revealed to them. No one knew until the Son told us who he was.

 

[MarkT]

Of course He was formed or created in the womb. God formed Him. God forms light. Isa. 45:7 Jesus was the light. God created us didn't he? If Jesus wasn't created, then what hope do we have? How can we hope to be like Him?

 

[MarkT]

The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old. Proverbs 8:22


The Spirit of wisdom of one of the seven Spirits of the Lord.


There shall come forth a Rod from the [b]stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
Isaiah 11:1-2


When the Lord created all things, He did so by wisdom.


The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;
By understanding He established the heavens;
Proverbs 3:19





JLB

I'm using the RSV which says,
Proverbs 8:22
The Lord created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.

 

[chessman]

I could say, like Paul does, that Christ is the power and wisdom of God 1 Cor. 1:24 and God made Christ our wisdom.

Paul doesn’t say God made Christ our wisdom. Paul says Christ IS the wisdom of God ... Who became wisdom to us from God (those who are in Christ, that is). Calling Him being in us ‘our wisdom’ misses the literal meaning of the Greek genitive possessiveness Paul used. It’s not our wisdom but rather God’s (Christ Jesus’s).

​

But by Him you are in Christ Jesus, Who became wisdom to us from God— both righteousness and holiness, and redemption— in order that just as it has been written [in Jer 9:24], “Let the one boasting be boasting in the Lord”.​

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30-31&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

I'm using the RSV which says,
Proverbs 8:22
The Lord created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.

As you can see, the word in the original has diverse meanings.

The Son created all things.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Paul doesn’t say God made Christ our wisdom. Paul says Christ IS the wisdom of God ... Who became wisdom to us from God (those who are in Christ, that is). Calling Him being in us ‘our wisdom’ misses the literal meaning of the Greek genitive possessiveness Paul used. It’s not our wisdom but rather God’s (Christ Jesus’s).

​

But by Him you are in Christ Jesus, Who became wisdom to us from God— both righteousness and holiness, and redemption— in order that just as it has been written [in Jer 9:24], “Let the one boasting be boasting in the Lord”.​

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30-31&version=DLNT

Christ is our wisdom.

I'm using the RSV which says God (the Father) made Christ Jesus our wisdom.
1 Corinthians 1:30
He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption;

 

[MarkT]

As you can see, the word in the original has diverse meanings.

The Son created all things.


JLB

What about the Father, the only true God? John 17:3 What did he do?

 

[chessman]

I'm using the RSV which says God (the Father) made Christ Jesus our wisdom.
1 Corinthians 1:30

The passage doesn’t mention the Father. It mentions Christ Jesus though:

He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; therefore, as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord.”​

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30-31&version=RSV

And the Greek grammar literally says He became wisdom to us from God:

But by Him you are in Christ Jesus, Who became wisdom to us from God— both righteousness and holiness, and redemption—​

1 Corinthians 1:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30&version=DLNT

What’s your understanding of the presence of God mentioned in v29?

so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.​

1 Corinthians 1:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:29&version=RSV

If you are in Christ Jesus, are you in the presence of God?

 

[JLB]

What about the Father, the only true God? John 17:3 What did he do?

He gave His Son the authority to create all things, because all things were created for the Son, and consist in the Son.

• For by Him all things were created
• All things were created through Him and for Him.
• And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Colossians 1:15-17


I gave my perspective on this twice already.


Here it is a third time.


I see the creation process this way.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [a]was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. Genesis 1:1-3

The Godhead, Elohim, The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, created the heavens and the earth.

• It was God the Father’s will that there was light.
• The Word, Jesus, expressed the will of the Father by saying... let there be light.
• Light came into being, was manifested, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

JLB

 

[billybalke]

I didn't say anything about the present active indicative. I spoke of the perfect tense. The Greek perfect verb tense indicates a past action whose results continue to the present. In this case the present was when John wrote his letter. This indicates that Jesus was still in the flesh when John wrote his letter. I'm not sure why you posted the passage from 1 Cor 15. Do you believe it somehow cancels what John said? You still have to reconcile what John said. Now you have to reconcile both passages together. However, the kingdom of God is not in Heaven so it really doesn't bear on the subject.

Even so, if we look at the passage you posted in context we can see what Paul means. In context Paul is contrasting corruption and incorruption. The earthly body and the resurrected body. When he says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, he's speaking of the present state, the corrupted state that we are now in. Only in the resurrected state can one inherit the kingdom. However, it will be physical beings that inherit the kingdom. When Jesus ascended into Heaven it was in the flesh and the angels said He will return in like manner.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
(Acts 1:9-11 NKJ)

We know that Jesus was flesh when He was resurrected because He said so.

36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you."
37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Lk. 24:36-39 NKJ)

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that Jesus is not in the flesh at present.

You said: "Jesus was still in the flesh when John wrote--" Strange that you know something that John did not know. The inspired John wrote in I Jn.3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be :but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." If the inspired John does not know, how is it that you, an uninspired man knows??

James 2:26 reads: The body apart from the spirit is dead". Now lets note which departs to be with God, the body (which is the flesh) or the spirit of man.
1. Gen.25:8: "And Abraham GAVE UP THE GHOST, (EMP. MINE, BB) and died in a good old age,--".
2. I Kings 17:22: "And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived".
3. Gen,.35:18: And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died)."
4. At the time Steven was dying, being stoned he said "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.:" He did not say
receive my flesh.
The above examples may be extended. They are irresistible and establish beyond reasonable doubt that it is the spirit, the soul of man and not the flesh which leaves the body behind and "flies away" (Ps.90:10).
I ask, at death what left and returned to God? The flesh or the spirit? What returned to the dust? The flesh or the spirit? Hear Eccl.12:7: "Then shall the dust (the body, the flesh of man, EMP. MINE, BB) return to the earth as it was: and the SPIRIT (emp.mine,BB) shall return unto God who gave it." I ask you to provide one single verse which says th flesh leaves the body and returns to God.
You said "Jesus was still in the flesh when John wrote--" But the inspired Luke says different: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost" Lk.23:46. Both Matthew and Mark say Jesus gave up his ghost (or spirit) on the cross. I Cor. 15:50 still reads "flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God".
This is all I have time for presently.

TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, JEW AND CALVINIST

 

[MarkT]

The passage doesn’t mention the Father. It mentions Christ Jesus though:

He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; therefore, as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord.”​

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30-31&version=RSV

And the Greek grammar literally says He became wisdom to us from God:

But by Him you are in Christ Jesus, Who became wisdom to us from God— both righteousness and holiness, and redemption—​

1 Corinthians 1:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30&version=DLNT

What’s your understanding of the presence of God mentioned in v29?

so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.​

1 Corinthians 1:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:29&version=RSV

If you are in Christ Jesus, are you in the presence of God?

God is our Father. vs. 30 says he is the source of your life in Christ Jesus. The he is God, our Father.

Keeping vs. 26-28 in mind, vs. 29 says, so that no human being, which includes everyone, might boast of being wise and powerful or of noble birth. Not in the presence of God. Now when will we be in the presence of God? I would say when our Lord comes back.

 

[chessman]

vs. 30 says he is the source of your life in Christ Jesus. The he is God, our Father.

In what translation?

He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption;​

1 Corinthians 1:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30&version=RSV

Now when will we be in the presence of God? I would say when our Lord comes back.

so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.​

1 Corinthians 1:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:29&version=RSV

The verbs Paul used in this verse for those in Christ Jesus are in the present tense (aorist), not future.

 

[MarkT]

In what translation?

He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption;​

1 Corinthians 1:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:30&version=RSV

so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.​

1 Corinthians 1:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:29&version=RSV

The verbs Paul used in this verse for those in Christ Jesus are in the present tense (aorist), not future.

The translation you posted. The RSV.

1 Cor. 1:26 For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth; 27 but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; 31 therefore, as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord.”

God chose what is foolish. God chose what is weak. God chose what is low and despised in the world to bring to nothing the things that are. The he in vs. 30 is God the Father. No human being can boast that he is something in the presence of God.

 

[chessman]

God chose what is foolish.

Yep, God chose Saul and changed his name to Paul?

And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”​

...​

But Anani′as answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”​

Acts 9:4-6,13-16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 9:4-6,13-16&version=RSV

The he in vs. 30 is God the Father.

Actually, the passage doesn’t mention the Father but it does mention Christ Jesus, the same He who called Saul and commissioned Paul in the opening and closing of his letter is the same He in v30 who chose Saul and called Paul to be His apostle.

Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sos′thenes,​

1 Corinthians 1:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:1&version=RSV

But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; he has put his seal upon us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.​

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 1:21-22&version=RSV

No human being can boast that he is something in the presence of God.

Does Paul write that he has the Spirit of God presently in his heart?

 

[MarkT]

Yep, God chose Saul and changed his name to Paul?

And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”​

...​

But Anani′as answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”​

Acts 9:4-6,13-16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 9:4-6,13-16&version=RSV



Actually, the passage doesn’t mention the Father but it does mention Christ Jesus, the same He who called Saul and commissioned Paul in the opening and closing of his letter is the same He in v30 who chose Saul and called Paul to be His apostle.

Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sos′thenes,​

1 Corinthians 1:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 1:1&version=RSV

But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; he has put his seal upon us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.​

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 1:21-22&version=RSV



Does Paul write that he has the Spirit of God presently in his heart?

1 Cor. 1 vs. 3 Paul says God our Father. He doesn't have to keep repeating our Father whenever he says God. It's understood when he says God he means our Father. So when he says, 'so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus' vs. 29,30, he means the Father is the source of your life in Christ Jesus. The Father made Christ Jesus our wisdom.

 

[MarkT]

MarkT said:
No human being can boast that he is something in the presence of God.

Does Paul write that he has the Spirit of God presently in his heart?

vs. 29 no human being will be able to boast in the presence of God (the Father) The wise and the powerful in this world will be brought to nothing. vs. 26-28 Hasn't happened yet.

 

[JLB]

It's understood when he says God he means our Father.

• our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:11-13

again

• God was manifested in the flesh

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16


Peter also -

• our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1



JLB

 

[MarkT]

• our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:11-13

again

• God was manifested in the flesh

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16


Peter also -

• our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1



JLB

How does this apply to 1 Corinthians?

 

[JLB]

How does this apply to 1 Corinthians?

My post was a direct response to this statement from you.

It's understood when he says God he means our Father.

I quoted scriptures, where Paul uses the word God to refer to Jesus Christ.

• our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:11-13

again

• God was manifested in the flesh

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16


Peter also -

• our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1


JLB