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How Do You Love a Sinner?

Susannah

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On another thread they are debating the issue of condemning sinners in the name of love. By this I mean pointing out to people that their sins will cast them into the fires of hell etc. and are an abomination to God.

There are some sins that do not really bother people and others that really upset them. With each person it is different. On this thread we were discussing sexuality. But I must also confess to gluttony.

My thinking was that since Love was the "Most Important" commandment it would trump everything else. But many disagreed with me and said that the loving thing to do was to confront sinners. To shame them for their own good. My mother used to say when she hit me, "This is for your own good."

I tried to suggest a compromise. I offered them a form of communication that could do both. SET

S = Support. I can see you are depressed.
E = Empathy. I was depressed before I found God. I understand you.
T = Truth. What you are doing is a sin. Would you like to talk about it.

This was largely ignored by the sin chasers. As a psychologist, I could analyze this behavior under the heading of building yourself up by looking down on others, but I won't. LOL.

So help me out here. Isn't the most loving thing to do is just leave sinners alone and love them so that they will come to us for help and we can tell them about God. If they do come to God they will find out soon enough they are sinners if they do not already know.

My sin, which was being discussed, was called an abomination. Such name calling hurts and makes me want to run away from other Christians. Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit sent me here and so staying trumps my urge to flee. I look forward to your comments.

My name is Susannah.

vinyl_wall_decal_love_the_lord_your_god__luke_10_27__1c9faf0f.jpg
 

Who Me

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condemning sinners in the name of love

I cannot see how that can be done.
For me I can see one forms a friendship with someone and at some point discuss religion. For a Christian this has to be done carefully as many people associate Christians with condeming others who are different from them.
For me the talk about belief would concentrate on the fact that there is a Creator God, that we have all failed his rules and that ther is redemption from this through Jesus.

Questions like ' am I going to hell? ' ' I suppose you want to convert me? 'etc I would not answer, but would turn them back to what the Bible teaches, passages like Romans 3:22-25. all have sinned,. Saved through the she'd blood of Jesus.

For me condeming the person I am talking to is not part of my conversation plan.
 
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See, in most cases.......people already know that what they are doing is a sin. So imo, saying "you are a sinner and unless you change you will displease God", is counter-productive in most cases. Build a connection to people instead.

The funny thing is, people are much more lax on sins they can personally understand and relate to. Porn is one. Like, yeah, it's usually considered to be a major sin, but there are support groups for it and people are much more understanding about it than something they cannot relate to, like being gay. There's this understanding that porn is a tough habit to break, and people will even say not to beat yourself up over it too hard. But experiencing same sex attraction and being open about it? "You're dangerous and cannot work in ministries anymore"
 

Edward

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On another thread they are debating the issue of condemning sinners in the name of love. By this I mean pointing out to people that their sins will cast them into the fires of hell etc. and are an abomination to God.

There are some sins that do not really bother people and others that really upset them. With each person it is different. On this thread we were discussing sexuality. But I must also confess to gluttony.

My thinking was that since Love was the "Most Important" commandment it would trump everything else. But many disagreed with me and said that the loving thing to do was to confront sinners. To shame them for their own good. My mother used to say when she hit me, "This is for your own good."

I tried to suggest a compromise. I offered them a form of communication that could do both. SET

S = Support. I can see you are depressed.
E = Empathy. I was depressed before I found God. I understand you.
T = Truth. What you are doing is a sin. Would you like to talk about it.

This was largely ignored by the sin chasers. As a psychologist, I could analyze this behavior under the heading of building yourself up by looking down on others, but I won't. LOL.

So help me out here. Isn't the most loving thing to do is just leave sinners alone and love them so that they will come to us for help and we can tell them about God. If they do come to God they will find out soon enough they are sinners if they do not already know.

My sin, which was being discussed, was called an abomination. Such name calling hurts and makes me want to run away from other Christians. Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit sent me here and so staying trumps my urge to flee. I look forward to your comments.

My name is Susannah.

vinyl_wall_decal_love_the_lord_your_god__luke_10_27__1c9faf0f.jpg

I......dunno if I buy that.

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...

Ephesians 5:1-8

5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:.../

Walk as children of light. Love your enemies, bless them that curse you.../

So that means, that...there had to be a better way than to call your sin an abomination to God. It may be but we have all sinned and fall short. So maybe try to speak diplomatically so that souls be not turned away or become angry?

And you Sister, perhaps try not to get angry and also to understand that while you do make an excellent point...it's not really their fault. They could be having a bad day, they could be under demonic oppression and tribulations...so forget themselves for the moment...?? It was wrong, but...pray for them instead of getting angry.

That's what I do. And another thing, I think it's really cool that you stayed. They can't get rid of you that easy, lol.
 

Seasoned by Grace

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Susannah my dear sister.

This is a great topic and so glad to see it come up, and all the discussions that have been generated.

We're all at different levels of growth and understanding scripture, so it's nice seeing people here engaging with different opinions.

It's great seeing you being so loving and bringing the topic of LOVE into all the conversation.

I picked this out and quoted it, because this is EXACTLY HOW I DO IT :thumbsup.
Love, kindness and acceptance has a way of opening up doors with people that nothing else can.
Why be judgemental of a non-Christian and their sin when God says not to through Paul.

In Romans 14:13, Paul says the "we're to judge sinful believers (With LOVE), and also in 2:12-13, judgement of others must be done with "mercy", and back to 14:13, " and leave the people outside the church to GOD."

So help me out here. Isn't the most loving thing to do is just leave sinners alone and love them so that they will come to us for help and we can tell them about God. If they do come to God they will find out soon enough they are sinners if they do not already know.

I just love what you said. It's so dead on.

Bless you my sister.
My name is OLIGOS

P.S.
Also, I read your last post about opinions being very distressing - YES THEY CAN BE.

BUT... that's part of standing up for what you believe, and do it lovingly, over and over, even when attacked or rejected,
is how we are challenged and learn to become stronger, and even more loving in our faith, and more loving towards those who we have a hard time with.

It's a process that God allows us to deal with so we can mature, and find that inner strength never to give up FOR OTHERS SAKE.
Always remember we are here FOR OTHERS.
 
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Susannah

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Susannah my dear sister.

This is a great topic and so glad to see it come up, and all the discussions that have been generated.

We're all at different levels of growth and understanding scripture, so it's nice seeing people here engaging with different opinions.

It's great seeing you being so loving and bringing the topic of LOVE into all the conversation.

I picked this out and quoted it, because this is EXACTLY HOW I DO IT :thumbsup.
Love, kindness and acceptance has a way of opening up doors with people that nothing else can.
Why be judgemental of a non-Christian and their sin when God says not to through Paul.

In Romans 14:13, Paul says the "we're to judge sinful believers (With LOVE), and also in 2:12-13, judgement of others must be done with "mercy", and back to 14:13, " and leave the people outside the church to GOD."



I just love what you said. It's so dead on.

Bless you my sister.
My name is OLIGOS

P.S.
Also, I read your last post about opinions being very distressing - YES THEY CAN BE.

BUT... that's part of standing up for what you believe, and do it lovingly, over and over, even when attacked or rejected,
is how we are challenged and learn to become stronger, and even more loving in our faith, and more loving towards those who we have a hard time with.

It's a process that God allows us to deal with so we can mature, and find that inner strength never to give up FOR OTHERS SAKE.
Always remember we are here FOR OTHERS.
Thank you for this post. I checked it just before I decided to leave the foruum and go back to Alcoholics Anonymous. Maybe I'll be all right if I just stay on this one thread. But all the attacks on my sexuality have really hurt. I don't think you're going to help sinners by making them feel ashamed of themselves you know. We hate ourselves enough for our sins. We do the best we can. For me I prioritize. Loving our neighbor is the most important commandment. There are just so many people who place other things ahead of the most important commandment. Like judging others. Feeling Superior to them. Enjoying pointing out their defects. Anyway I'm late for an AA meeting. I've gone back to them to find some Solace.

The thing about AA is they accept everybody. It's all inclusive. In AA you are told the minute you walk in a room that you are forgiven for your alcoholism. It makes you so happy to be loved and accepted that you will do anything for God including giving up alcohol. That is why God told us to love each other.

My name is Susanna
 

Seasoned by Grace

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Susannah
After being here for a while and reading many of your posts on all the different forums, sometimes I think you share too much of yourself and your past, and give people too much ammunition. and don't yet have the strength and resiliance to deal with the feedback and sometimes criticism and attacks.

A person has to be strong Susannah to do what your doing, .
I spent many years putting myself out there as a Christian, and believing things others attacked me for, or even told me to leave their bible study or men's group. Even left a couple churches.

But I knew God was strengthening me like a "mamma dog" chews on her baby boy dogs when their puppies, to toughen them up for life, God let's the dog's of life chew on us and strengthen us, yet at the same time soften us as He teaches us to love those dogs who chew on us, and even thank God for all the bite marks and tares in our flesh that become the "scars of love", like the stripes Christ received from the whips that tore His flesh, and He carried the cross for.
God says to pick up our cross daily just like Christ, but we have to be willing to "ENDURE" for the sake of the cross, and stay the course in our faith because what we endure is not just for us, but especially for those "DOGS" that need Christ more than we need relief from the trials of torment.

You'll know when your strong enough and ready to endure the cross, when you no longer need to defend your own beliefs, and instead want to defend the faith with peace in your heart, and with the love that came from Christ.

Our purpose isn't to protect ourselves or how we see things, it's to defend the truth, and all it can mean to those looking for the hope we have found.

Don't become a target, unless you willing to pay the price, and not be a "persecuted Woe is me" and feel sorry for yourself in front of everybody , and complain that "IT ISN"T FAIR"

Life has never been "FAIR" and never will be, that's why Christ died.

Give up wanting life to be fair, and find joy and peace in that you are persecuted.

My name is OLIGOS
 

Susannah

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I found God in Alcoholics Anonymous. We help people by revealing how far down we've gone and how far up God Has Lifted us. It's a hard habit to break. God keeps telling me that I'm strong enough to do this. He says that if one person out there is helped by my revelations then it's worth it. Most of the time it is. That's why I keep doing it. But a person needs support. And so I appreciate you supporting me. God has answered my prayers. I am a wounded healer. I spend my time on the cross so I can help others that are up here with me. When I was homeless I asked God why and he said this is your in training. For now on I want you to work with the homeless. I'll give you a nice room in the church as your home base. I thought I was over being ashamed of myself because God had forgiven me for all my sins. Some of the posts on this thread just triggered some of that old residual shame I guess. But as Estes said I am a member of the time honored Scar Clan. That's my badge of honor. Christ was wounded for our transgressions. I could be in no better company than that.
 

Hopeful

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On another thread they are debating the issue of condemning sinners in the name of love. By this I mean pointing out to people that their sins will cast them into the fires of hell etc. and are an abomination to God.

There are some sins that do not really bother people and others that really upset them. With each person it is different. On this thread we were discussing sexuality. But I must also confess to gluttony.

My thinking was that since Love was the "Most Important" commandment it would trump everything else. But many disagreed with me and said that the loving thing to do was to confront sinners. To shame them for their own good. My mother used to say when she hit me, "This is for your own good."

I tried to suggest a compromise. I offered them a form of communication that could do both. SET

S = Support. I can see you are depressed.
E = Empathy. I was depressed before I found God. I understand you.
T = Truth. What you are doing is a sin. Would you like to talk about it.

This was largely ignored by the sin chasers. As a psychologist, I could analyze this behavior under the heading of building yourself up by looking down on others, but I won't. LOL.
So help me out here. Isn't the most loving thing to do is just leave sinners alone and love them so that they will come to us for help and we can tell them about God. If they do come to God they will find out soon enough they are sinners if they do not already know.

My sin, which was being discussed, was called an abomination. Such name calling hurts and makes me want to run away from other Christians. Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit sent me here and so staying trumps my urge to flee. I look forward to your comments.
The "name calling" is God's written mind on the subject.
Too bad it didn't cause you to "run away" from the sin.
 
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The "name calling" is God's written mind on the subject.
Too bad it didn't cause you to "run away" from the sin.
I'd advise you to rethink your response on this. We are already of the mind that same sex sex is a sin. However, that doesn't change the fact that we experience attraction to the same sex. SSA (same sex attraction) doesn't just go away because you want it to. Our mere existence is not the abomination.
Normally I wouldn't bother to respond, but you are messing with someone who is already having a hard time.
 

Seasoned by Grace

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Susannah
I think your in too deep here and need to step away.
Your still living too emotionally in the past, and you need to get past it.

I know your here for others, but you can't give to others what you can't give to yourself.
Your still in a lot of pain and very angry, and trying to cover it up and mask your feelings with your imagined purpose.

You haven't healed yet and I think you need help to find peace.

I went through the same process decades ago, getting help several times from Christian counselors as God took me from one damage to another, healing me at each stage.

I speak from experience and Godly Love Susannah. You need professional help, like I did, to get past living in your pain. After over 20 years of counseling, I am at peace, happy, and full of love for my fellow man.
You are not - You only try to be, and speak the right words with nothing behind those words, but hurt, as at times you lash out in your ongoing pain and lack of peace.

You've been wanting to help others, and now it's time to help yourself.

God bless you as you consider my loving words.
My name is OLIGOS
 

Susannah

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Oligos. I am 71 and have been in counseling since I was 19. Psychodynamics helped a lot. But mostly what helped was the love and acceptance that I got from my counselors. I'm not getting that here so it has triggered my PTSD. But even you are losing sympathy for my situation so I think my decision to go back to Alcoholics Anonymous is best. Everybody there is a misfit. We are all sinners in Alcoholics Anonymous. They understand the shame. This is where I found God and loving acceptance. I'm not getting it here. So there's nothing wrong with me. Something is wrong with this forum. I tell you this with all honesty. There are people on this forum that need to take a good hard look at themselves when it comes to the Commandment to love your neighbor. Take care everyone. ❤
 

humble soul

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, I am at peace, happy, and full of love for my fellow man.
You are not - You only try to be,
Oligos just reflect on what you've said here to Susannah.
Do you honestly think that is helpful? I don't think it is but I guess that's none of my business. It reminds me of the Pharisee story in the Gospels.
But you can delete this post if you want.
 
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Susannah

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When I'm not on this board I'm at peace and happy and full of love for my fellow man. There's just something about this board that triggers me. I don't think it was an accident that I ran into an old AA buddy in the grocery store. God is taking me by the hand and leading me back to the place where we first met. It was a beautiful garden full of loving people who greeted me and welcomed me and said they loved me sins and all. This deepened my relationship with Christ and made me want to give up my sins. And I have. I'm not the person I was but I'm not the person I'm going to be either. I'm a work in progress. ❤
 

Seasoned by Grace

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But even you are losing sympathy for my situation


Susannah my sister in Christ.

I never had sympathy for you. I didn't know you needed sympathy.
Healthy people don't need sympathy when they have been healed, there is nothing to need sympathy for - IT"S GONE.

I know Susannah. I was healed and need no sympathy because I'm emotionally healthy

A healthy person doesn't spill their guts and expect people to be their for them, we go to professional counciling.
They come to places like this for others, not for themselves.

I haven't turned on you, you call this love Susannah many times, so I am loving you the same way you love others. I'm speaking your language.

Since I came her I have been loving and kind to you, and am still being loving and kind, but because of your damage and pain there are things you can't see through the heavy smoke of your AGONY.

You don't have a clear mind and too much of your being here is about you and you need help for that.

You blow up at people and get triggered and can't control your emotions, and threaten to leave over and over
and you want to help others??
That's just plain DENIAL!!!!

How do you help others when your emotions are all over the map from day to day.
Your an emotional basket case Susannah.

Being direct and honest is one of the greatest forms of love, but you are in such a state of self-defence, you cant see it.
You just feel attacked because your self-worth is so low.

Your age doesn't matter Susannah, you are still broken and honestly can't help anyone in the condition your in.
Not even yourself.

You have to quit going from site to site and saying the wrong things and getting responses that trigger you because your not strong enough emotionally to let comments role off your back.

Learn how to quit needing sympathy. Being a counselor as you say you've been or are is a huge sign of a need to be healed from things from the past.
Being needy emotionally for anything is serious BAGGAGE that needs to be UNLOADED Susannah.

God bless you my sister, as you get past how you see yourself being needed here, and go do what you need for yourself.

My name is OLIGOS
 
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humble soul

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They come to places like this for others, not for themselves.
Let's be realistic oligos. So you only came to give not receive. Mmm...I'm finding that hard to swallow. Not even fellowship.
No one is totally selfless. In fact I don't think God wants us to be like that. He wants us to share responsibility. Take turns in supporting each other. What about your sciatica thread the other day? Was the purpose to inform us us your pain? You weren't seeking any empathy or sympathy?
 

Seasoned by Grace

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You weren't seeking any empathy or sympathy?


humble soul my brother.
Nice to hear from you.
Why would I want sympathy or empathy???
Prayers are about seeking Gods kindness and love for yourself or another individual or group, to meet a need.

It's a beautiful gift from our creator, to in faith seek out comfort and in my case relief from suffering.

I don't need sympathy as I'm fine if God wants me in pain and my self worth is strong enough that I don't need to be felt sorry for.
If Gods gift to me is suffering why would I want sympathy for a gift??

God has allowed me to suffer many times, and sometimes He healed me and other times suffered in great pain for years without healing right away. It's God choice as I belong to Him and am not my own
If it's Gods will, I suffer and in James 1:2 says, "Consider it all joy my brethren, when you encounter various trials, , knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance, and let endurance have it's perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete lacking in nothing."

Sometimes God uses suffering to grow us, in fact it's one of the strongest tools in His arsenal to grow us.
At least it has been for me.

God bless you my friend.
My name is OLIGOS
 

humble soul

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humble soul my brother.
Nice to hear from you.
Why would I want sympathy or empathy???
Prayers are about seeking Gods kindness and love for yourself or another individual or group, to meet a need.

It's a beautiful gift from our creator, to in faith seek out comfort and in my case relief from suffering.

I don't need sympathy as I'm fine if God wants me in pain and my self worth is strong enough that I don't need to be felt sorry for.
If Gods gift to me is suffering why would I want sympathy for a gift??

God has allowed me to suffer many times, and sometimes He healed me and other times suffered in great pain for years without healing right away. It's God choice as I belong to Him and am not my own
If it's Gods will, I suffer and in James 1:2 says, "Consider it all joy my brethren, when you encounter various trials, , knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance, and let endurance have it's perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete lacking in nothing."

Sometimes God uses suffering to grow us, in fact it's one of the strongest tools in His arsenal to grow us.
At least it has been for me.

God bless you my friend.
My name is OLIGOS
If you have no needs you may as well not be on the forum. To have no needs is inhuman. Like a robot.
 
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