What's new
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

How is the law abolished?

DeepWater

Just The Truth
Member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
38
Gender
Male
This is once again, a post, that seemed to need to be given a chance to be a Thread.
-

The bible says that Jesus bore our sin on the Cross, so then, who are we to not believe it. ?
After all, if we are born again, then we have now become "the righteousness of Christ", and Jesus "became (our) sin". 2nd Corinthians 5:21, and what is also amazing, is that its God His Father that "made" this all happen.
Here is a pretzel.....God is Jesus on the Cross, sending Himself down from Heaven, to Die as a Man.
In John 1:10, Jesus was "standing on the earth HE CREATED", = "God said, LET THERE BE", in Genesis....... and this is JESUS now standing on it, and soon He was going to be hanging between the earth and sky that HE Created with.... words....and Jesus is the WORD ..... made flesh.


On the Cross, Jesus is not just dying for sin, He literally became sin.
I'll show you somehting else that is pretty interesting, as maybe you've not thought this or been shown it before...
You all know this verse......
"we are not UNDER the Law but we are UNDER Grace".
In other words, the reason for the Law....is that the law shows us our sinfulness, as this is the purpose of it, which then leads us to the One who dies for them on the Cross, gives us His Righteousness......you know, (Salvation).
But notice this.... our NT says that the LAW was abolished, being NAILED to the Cross.
Colossians 2:14
Now this does not mean the law and the 10 C's are no longer behavioral lifestyle guides regarding our Christian Discipleship, sure...but what it means is that because Jesus fulfilled the law in our place, the law now has no authority to judge us as sinners.
Remember, God's law does this, not Jesus, not God.
This is why Jesus never JUDGED any one, He always said. "sins are forgiven", "go thy way"...etc..... as that is why HE CAME, whereas the Law can not do this, it can only judge you to be a sinner, based on ITSELF as it reveals God's morally righteous moral code.

So, Jesus abolished the law (took away its power to judge us as sinners), which is why Romans 4:8 has to be understood fully or Salvation can't be completely accepted or understood as it is meant to be, in both cases.

So, there is Jesus, dying on the cross, and where is the Law that is abolished and NAILED to the Cross with him??
Its nailed.
Where?
Its above his HEAD.
He is UNDER THE LAW, on the Cross, DYING.
And we are NOT UNDER IT< because He died under it for us.

"You are not UNDER the Law but under GRACE , <. see that? = Because Jesus is UNDER IT, on the Cross. He took away its power to JUDGE a born again believer.
His death FINISHED not only our Eternal Redemption, but it also forever eliminated the Law's Legal right to judge us as SINNERS.

Definitely do a deep study of Romans 4:8, as this is the EFFECT of you not being under the Law, but under Grace.
If the Light in this verse "get's a-hold of you", you might find yourself shouting some praises.... as this verse is meant for the born again.
Romans 4:8


blessings,



dw
 
Last edited:

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,131
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Jesus did not become our sin, but bore our sin on the cross as He took all our sin upon Himself as He was the final unblemished blood sacrifice who made atonement for our sin. To say Jesus became sin is to say Jesus was then a sinner and we know that is not true. All our sin fell on Jesus as He hung on the cross as He paid our debt for our sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The purpose of the 613 Levitical Laws God gave to Moses was instruction for the Jews to walk in obedience to the Father, but even before Moses came down from the mountain they were going after other God's as they soon forsake the God that brought them out of Egypt.

Even before Moses received the ten commandments, which by the way are a part of the 613 Levitical laws, God had first gave nine of them to Adam and reiterated them again to Noah after the flood. The only commandment that was not in the Noahic laws was to keep the sabbath day holy as this was added by God within the ten commandments once again given to Moses after the exodus.

The law being that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, Romans 8:1-8.

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
 

Chopper

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
7,188
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
A good response Glory Girl. The modern church (some) has made the mistake of throwing out the Old Testament thinking that Christ cancelled out all the Laws in Himself. A careful study of the Old Testament reveals the truth that the sacrificial system of sins being forgiven thru the Levitical system of animal sacrifices, Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the cross, satisfied the judicial requirements of our holy Godhead.

I love the Old Testament because in studying the Torah (1st 5 books of the Bible, it is the unveiling of God our Father's heart toward his people. We can learn so many important facts of how God will operate toward mankind, and He never changes.

Chopper
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,131
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
A good response Glory Girl. The modern church (some) has made the mistake of throwing out the Old Testament thinking that Christ cancelled out all the Laws in Himself. A careful study of the Old Testament reveals the truth that the sacrificial system of sins being forgiven thru the Levitical system of animal sacrifices, Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the cross, satisfied the judicial requirements of our holy Godhead.

I love the Old Testament because in studying the Torah (1st 5 books of the Bible, it is the unveiling of God our Father's heart toward his people. We can learn so many important facts of how God will operate toward mankind, and He never changes.

Chopper
I can't understand why so many want to through out the OT like yesterdays trash as without it there would be no NT as the OT is a foreshadow of Christ in the NT.

We know God's grace is unmerited favor and it began with Noah as it repented God that He even created man for they soon turned to their own iniquity Genesis 6:6-8. Grace is not a new thing, but now through the sacrifice Jesus offering up His life as paying our debt to sin there are no more sacrifices for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-31.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
 

JohnDB

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
6,664
Gender
Male
I can't understand why so many want to through out the OT like yesterdays trash as without it there would be no NT as the OT is a foreshadow of Christ in the NT.

We know God's grace is unmerited favor and it began with Noah as it repented God that He even created man for they soon turned to their own iniquity Genesis 6:6-8. Grace is not a new thing, but now through the sacrifice Jesus offering up His life as paying our debt to sin there are no more sacrifices for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-31.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
Coveting is not so much an action but an attitude of wanting more. And as actually all ten commandments are, they are all about attitude.
 

Chopper

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
7,188
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
I can't understand why so many want to through out the OT like yesterdays trash as without it there would be no NT as the OT is a foreshadow of Christ in the NT.

We know God's grace is unmerited favor and it began with Noah as it repented God that He even created man for they soon turned to their own iniquity Genesis 6:6-8. Grace is not a new thing, but now through the sacrifice Jesus offering up His life as paying our debt to sin there are no more sacrifices for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-31.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
Thank you Glory Girl, for that great addition. This verse is so true but so refused by many....Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. A study of the Law as it unfolds in Matthew Chapter 5 by Christ Jesus is the only way to find out what our God likes and dislikes.

For all those who discount the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) are missing out on a valuable message from our Creator about end times. They will be like the five virgins who were unprepared when Jesus comes for His Bride....Please note this Scripture....
Isa 46:8 “Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’


Chopper
 

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
Matthew 5:17
New International Version
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I believe many Christians misunderstand this verse.

Jesus starts his discourse in chapter 5 and ends in chapter 7. And 5:17 is his entry point.

To understand the words of Jesus, we need to understand the context of 5 thru 7 as well as the culture.

Jewish thought was to live out Gods commandments. One could even falsly accuse the Jews of earning their salvation. Being free from the Law, we don't understand the complexity of trying to live each day I see them. When we look at the Spirit of the Law, its purpose is to bring life and vibrancy to ones life while being a beacon of hope and light for those who are lost.

Now, when we look at any commandment, they are not simply intellectual fodder. Those commandments require action on our part to implement them in our lives. We call this living out our faith.

It's when we are living out our faith that we either fulfil the law or we abolish the law. Let me explain. If we live out our faith in a way that is in alignment with the Spirit of Gods commandment, then we fulfill Gods commandment. However, if we misinterpret Gods commandment and live it out foreign to the Spirit of that law, we then abolish that commandment.

It is not that the commandment is no longer viable, but rather we have rendered it ineffective. We see this clearly when we see how the religious elite of Jesus day implemented the law and this, abolished a large portion of it. On the other hand, Jesus fulfills the law by keeping it perfectly, and as a result, shows the way of God.
 

ezrider

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
3,547
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
It's when we are living out our faith that we either fulfil the law or we abolish the law.

The Law can only be fulfilled in one way, and that way is Death; As Jesus went to the death of the Cross. The law is abolished in death.

If you are "in" Christ, then you have become dead to the law, for the law can not judge what already dead; If you are risen with Christ then the law has become abolished to you; you walk by faith.

But the Law brings with it the temptation to judge; One cannot judge others according to a law that they hold to be abolished for themselves. If they use the law to continue judge others, then their fruits demonstrate they are not yet dead to the law; And if they are not dead to the law, then how can they be crucified with Christ?
 

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
The Law can only be fulfilled in one way, and that way is Death; As Jesus went to the death of the Cross. The law is abolished in death.

If you are "in" Christ, then you have become dead to the law, for the law can not judge what already dead; If you are risen with Christ then the law has become abolished to you; you walk by faith.

But the Law brings with it the temptation to judge; One cannot judge others according to a law that they hold to be abolished for themselves. If they use the law to continue judge others, then their fruits demonstrate they are not yet dead to the law; And if they are not dead to the law, then how can they be crucified with Christ?
Hi Ez,
As I started to another poster earlier, gentiles were never under the Law, not even the 10 commandments nor circumcision. So why all the fuss and worry about being judged by them?

In regard to Matthew 5, Jesus is a Jew and he was talking to Jews and He clearly states he came not to abolish the law. What I provided was a cultural understanding of what was meant by abolishing the Law.
 

ezrider

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
3,547
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Hi Ez,
As I started to another poster earlier, gentiles were never under the Law, not even the 10 commandments nor circumcision. So why all the fuss and worry about being judged by them?

In regard to Matthew 5, Jesus is a Jew and he was talking to Jews and He clearly states he came not to abolish the law. What I provided was a cultural understanding of what was meant by abolishing the Law.
You clearly didn't understand a word I said.




1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
 
Last edited:

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
You clearly didn't understand a word I said.




1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Please don't be disrespectful to me. If I have offended you in any way, please send me a PM and we can resolve any misunderstandings.

What I do understand is that I am specifically addressing the words of Jesus in Matthew 5 where he says that He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

Understanding that Jesus starts his discourse in chapter 5 and ends in chapter 7 we now have the context in which to understand the intent of Jesus words.

As far as your initial reply, Romans 7 addresses and validates much of what you say, but from a Jewish perspective. At the top of the chapter, Paul is addressing the Jews and we know this by the way he addresses them.

If we back up and look at Romans, it is written to those in Rome at a period of time when Jews (even Christian Jews) were permitted back in Rome after having been exiled from the city.

We already understand that some Christian Jews were trying to impose Jewish laws upon gentile Christians and we see Pauls frustrations in Galatia. I believe Romans 7 is Paul addressing the issue he faced in Galatia before it takes root.

So, it is not that I don't understand what you were trying to say. Instead, I was trying to keep my focus on what Jesus said.

Understand?
 

ezrider

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
3,547
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
We already understand that some Christian Jews were trying to impose Jewish laws upon gentile Christians and we see Pauls frustrations in Galatia. I believe Romans 7 is Paul addressing the issue he faced in Galatia before it takes root.

So, it is not that I don't understand what you were trying to say. Instead, I was trying to keep my focus on what Jesus said.

Understand?
I understand what your saying, and I was not trying to be disrespectful.

So lets talk about imposing laws. In this country the practice of abortion has been accepted as according to the laws and judgements of the courts. Also the law of the land recognized the equal right for homosexuals to form a partnership in marriage.

By what authority do the Christians use when seeking to overturn these laws, what laws are they seeking to impose upon others?
 

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
I understand what your saying, and I was not trying to be disrespectful.

So lets talk about imposing laws. In this country the practice of abortion has been accepted as according to the laws and judgements of the courts. Also the law of the land recognized the equal right for homosexuals to form a partnership in marriage.

By what authority do the Christians use when seeking to overturn these laws, what laws are they seeking to impose upon others?
I hope I can explain this easily.

We can start with the first law... Don't eat from that tree. Simple.
After that, there were no laws and humanity became corrupt, and God sent a flood to cleanse the earth.

When the water subsided, there was a universal covenant God made with both all of humanity and the world, and he left the rainbow as a sign for that covenant.

We call these the Noahide laws, and these are the laws gentiles were under. There are seven of them and the answer to your questions can be found within them.

Here is a decent article on the matter.

Just like the Jews had additional laws because they willfully entered into the Sanai covenant, we Christians have entered into a Covenant which we celebrate each time we partake in Holy Communion. Non Christians are not bound to the covenant in Christ, but they are welcome in.

The Noahide Covenant is universal and as attested by the rainbow, is still binding. You will notice that both the 613 laws of Moses as well as the commandments of Jesus to His followers include these 7 laws of Noah.

This is how I understand it anyway. I hope I have addressed your questions because they were good questions deserving an honest answer.
 

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
I can't understand why so many want to through out the OT like yesterdays trash as without it there would be no NT as the OT is a foreshadow of Christ in the NT.

We know God's grace is unmerited favor and it began with Noah as it repented God that He even created man for they soon turned to their own iniquity Genesis 6:6-8. Grace is not a new thing, but now through the sacrifice Jesus offering up His life as paying our debt to sin there are no more sacrifices for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-31.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
Very well put together Sister! Thank you for your contribution! Good stuff!
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,131
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus came to fulfill the rituals and sacrifice of the Temple, yet there are still the moral laws all of us need to abide in as in an act of love being the greatest law of God. There is no more Jew or Gentile as we are all in Christ and as being Abraham's seed we are heirs according to promise of a better covenant of God's grace given freely to all who will accept it.
 

ezrider

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
3,547
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
I hope I can explain this easily.

We can start with the first law... Don't eat from that tree. Simple.
It is simple, but not quite that simple. After all, there was only One tree that they were not commanded to eat from. The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil: The tree of the knowledge of blessings and curses, the tree of the knowledge of sin and death. Of that tree do not eat our you will surly die, but of all the other trees, you may eat from.

The penalty of the commandment was death. Death is the fulfillment of the commandment.


What I do understand is that I am specifically addressing the words of Jesus in Matthew 5 where he says that He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
He did fulfill the law when he went to the death of the cross. He held his tongue and said not a word before his accusers. He did not come to abolish the law, he did not come to abolish the curse; He came that we might overcome the burden of the curse.

When Moses came down from the mountain the carried with him two tablets of stone. When Jesus went out into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil, the first temptation offered to him was to turn those stones into bread, but Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but every word the proceeds out of the mouth of God.


Understanding that Jesus starts his discourse in chapter 5 and ends in chapter 7 we now have the context in which to understand the intent of Jesus words.
Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but he did explain the depth and breadth of the law. Some would claim that they have never killed anyone, but Jesus explained that he who hates his brother without cause has already committed murder under the law. Just as he who lusts after another women in his heart has committed adultery.

Jesus also goes on to explain that if you break the least of the commandments then you have indeed broken all of them.

Judge not, lest you be judged. If you judge by the law, you shall be judged by the law, if you live by the law, you shall die by the law. If you forgive others, then your sins will be forgiven you.

You have heard it said an eye for an eye; but I say unto you........

Speaking of an eye for an eye, as anti-abortion laws are sweeping across states, I have heard suggestions from some states that the penalty for an abortion should be death, either of the doctor or the mother. Is this an eye for an eye justice? According to the law, who had the right to seek justice for a murder?
 
Last edited:

dianegcook

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
1,616
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
I can't understand why so many want to through out the OT like yesterdays trash as without it there would be no NT as the OT is a foreshadow of Christ in the NT.

We know God's grace is unmerited favor and it began with Noah as it repented God that He even created man for they soon turned to their own iniquity Genesis 6:6-8. Grace is not a new thing, but now through the sacrifice Jesus offering up His life as paying our debt to sin there are no more sacrifices for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-31.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
Amen
Col.2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES, nailing it to the cross.
Eph.2:15
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments, CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES...

Ceremonies, blood ordinances..

He became our rest, our circumcision, our sacrificial lamb, our Passover, etc.
 

StoveBolts

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
14,779
Gender
Male
It is simple, but not quite that simple. After all, there was only One tree that they were not commanded to eat from. The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil: The tree of the knowledge of blessings and curses, the tree of the knowledge of sin and death. Of that tree do not eat our you will surly die, but of all the other trees, you may eat from.

The penalty of the commandment was death. Death is the fulfillment of the commandment.




He did fulfill the law when he went to the death of the cross. He held his tongue and said not a word before his accusers. He did not come to abolish the law, he did not come to abolish the curse; He came that we might overcome the burden of the curse.

When Moses came down from the mountain the carried with him two tablets of stone. When Jesus went out into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil, the first temptation offered to him was to turn those stones into bread, but Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but every word the proceeds out of the mouth of God.




Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but he did explain the depth and breadth of the law. Some would claim that they have never killed anyone, but Jesus explained that he who hates his brother without cause has already committed murder under the law. Just as he who lusts after another women in his heart has committed adultery.

Jesus also goes on to explain that if you break the least of the commandments then you have indeed broken all of them.

Judge not, lest you be judged. If you judge by the law, you shall be judged by the law, if you live by the law, you shall die by the law. If you forgive others, then your sins will be forgiven you.

You have heard it said an eye for an eye; but I say unto you........

Speaking of an eye for an eye, as anti-abortion laws are sweeping across states, I have heard suggestions from some states that the penalty for an abortion should be death, either of the doctor or the mother. Is this an eye for an eye justice? According to the law, who had the right to seek justice for a murder?
Good stuff, but how can you go wrong with the sermon on the mount? I like it because he not only addresses the correct interpretation of the law, but he also addresses common thought and sayings outside the law.

Hmm, eye for an eye, that's a good one. My understanding is that it does not give somebody the right to poke out your eye because he poked your eye out. What it means is you cannot do any more than has been done to you.

In other words, it limits the consequences. Example, you can't sue somebody for a million dollars because they stole 50 dollars from you. It has to be reasonable. Perhaps the 50 ended up over drafting your account, you can sue for all related losses.

Also, because the spirit of that law is focused on limiting consequences, one also has the right to not pursue consequences at all.

In summary, an eye for an eye sets limits that are fair and just. An eye for an eye is not mandated and the offence can be handled mercifully.

Let's see, it's been a long, long time so help me out here. In regard to murder, that is to be handled by the courts. If the courts deem a death accidental, yet the kin of the deceased desire him dead, the man can move to a sanctuary city where he is safe. Catch him outside that city and he's fair game for kin. I'm rusty and may be wrong, but I remember it that way. I'm counting on you or others to keep me straight.

As far as a flat out intentional murder, I don't specifically recall any passages. Help me out if you know them.

Concerning abortions, many factors need to be considered. Some honestly believe what they are taught in the schools and media that a fetus isn't really a baby, so your not really killing anything. You and I know better, but we need to understand that some don't really know what they are doing, and that has to be a consideration.

On the other hand, drs and some patience are not ignorant and clearly violate Gods law.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,131
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Good stuff, but how can you go wrong with the sermon on the mount? I like it because he not only addresses the correct interpretation of the law, but he also addresses common thought and sayings outside the law.

Hmm, eye for an eye, that's a good one. My understanding is that it does not give somebody the right to poke out your eye because he poked your eye out. What it means is you cannot do any more than has been done to you.

In other words, it limits the consequences. Example, you can't sue somebody for a million dollars because they stole 50 dollars from you. It has to be reasonable. Perhaps the 50 ended up over drafting your account, you can sue for all related losses.

Also, because the spirit of that law is focused on limiting consequences, one also has the right to not pursue consequences at all.

In summary, an eye for an eye sets limits that are fair and just. An eye for an eye is not mandated and the offence can be handled mercifully.

Let's see, it's been a long, long time so help me out here. In regard to murder, that is to be handled by the courts. If the courts deem a death accidental, yet the kin of the deceased desire him dead, the man can move to a sanctuary city where he is safe. Catch him outside that city and he's fair game for kin. I'm rusty and may be wrong, but I remember it that way. I'm counting on you or others to keep me straight.

As far as a flat out intentional murder, I don't specifically recall any passages. Help me out if you know them.

Concerning abortions, many factors need to be considered. Some honestly believe what they are taught in the schools and media that a fetus isn't really a baby, so your not really killing anything. You and I know better, but we need to understand that some don't really know what they are doing, and that has to be a consideration.

On the other hand, drs and some patience are not ignorant and clearly violate Gods law.
I remember a conversation at one time about sanctuary cities and you are right.

In Exodus 20:13 God forbids murder as He emphasizes the value of human life because we are all made in His image, but God also shows us that killing doesn't always fall under the category of murder.

Situations where killing is not murder as in accidental death or in self-defense where one is allowed to protect them self, Exodus 22:2, 3; Deuteronomy 19; Nehemiah 4:11-14. Exodus 22:2, 3. If a thief breaks into your house at night time and is struck that he would die there is no blood guilt on the who causes the thief to die. But if it is during the daylight then the punishment of Genesis 9:6 would apply as the thief life was valued . So even after the command in Exodus 20:13 God permits the taking of a life if one's own life is in potential danger. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in scripture, value for human life is the rule.
 

Please consider donating

Total amount
$737.00
Goal
$4,080.00
Top