How to teach religion.

[Kidron]

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Lets talk about how to teach religion in place of Salvation.

First : RELIGION is man trying to work his way to heaven by their self righteous effort of striving to get there.
Religion, is someone trying save themselves in their self effort to reach and maintain relationship with God based on what they themselves do to attempt to achieve it.

Salvation, (Blood Atonement) is God reaching humanity for free through love, using a bloody Cross and a sacrificed Savior to reconnect with them.

Using the bible there are 3 specific scriptures that will be twisted to teach religion.
There are others, but here are 3 common examples you'll find on all Christian forums and in many a Minister's mouth or Theologian's "word study"..


1.) if we confess our sins, we can be forgiven... 1 Jn 1:9

Here a teacher of religion will bend this scripture to hide and dodge the fact that a believer is already saved (forgiven) , and replace the blood atonement that forgives with the self deed of "confession".
The teacher of religion is substituting "confession" for the Blood Atonement.
This is "another gospel".... Galatians 1:8

2.) "endure to the end".....Matthew 24:13.

Here the teacher of religion has substituted what Christ did to save you as a free gift with the idea that you must *endure* something to the end. (whatever that is).
The reality is, God only accepts you based on Christ's blood making you "accepted in the beloved" and will reject all self effort to save oneself by "enduring" anything., as Christ is the one that endured the Cross that Saves Us.
The teacher of religion is substituting personal "enduring" for the Blood Atonement.
This is "another gospel".... Galatians 1:8


3.) Who "will render to each one according to his deeds, -- indignation and wrath"
Romans 2:6-8

Here the teacher of religion will twist the New Testament into a pretzel shaped heresy to try to eternally punish a Saved Child of God with the vengeance given by JESUS to the UNBELIEVERS, that is found in.... 1st Thessalonians 1:8.
This is "another Gospel"... Galatians 1:8

So, once again,... to teach religion using the Bible you have to remove doctrinal context, twist scriptures into a knot of circular reasoning, while wrongly dividing the word's of Paul The Apostle.
Many have the process mastered, and will never agree that the Blood Atonement, once applied, (born again) is a permanent Salvation.

Finally.... The epistles of Hebrews, Matthew, and James, are the "go to" piece de resistance for all who want to rewrite the Gospel of God's grace into their version of "another gospel". Galatians 1:8
Notice this, and you'll discover who they are that do it.
Compare what you believe about the "free Gift of Righteousness" = Blood Atonement, with what the teachers of religion substitute for it.
"Another Gospel"..... Galatians 1:8

Use this Light of discernment to protect yourself.

 

[smaller]

-
Lets talk about how to teach religion in place of Salvation.

First : RELIGION is man trying to work his way to heaven by their self righteous effort of striving to get there.
Religion, is someone trying save themselves in their self effort to reach and maintain relationship with God based on what they themselves do to attempt to achieve it.

Rather simplistic notion. Seek, Knock, Ask are also biblical mandates. One and done has it's issues too. Matt. 7:7-8 and many other citings.

Salvation, (Blood Atonement) is God reaching humanity for free through love, using a bloody Cross and a sacrificed Savior to reconnect with them.

Again a rather simplistic notion. Atonement in typical christian flavors comes in many varieties. Some have it universal to all mankind, some specifically to believers only, and I think the majority would say "the blood" is completely ineffective for the devil and his messengers for example. And then there are some who will extend "the blood" universally to all of creation, with some exceptions that vary.

It's not an easy topic. And not meant to be easy. A case can be made that the wicked world was condemned by that action of the shedding of innocent blood. So in this way "the blood" is witness and a judgment against the wicked world, not for it.

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Using the bible there are 3 specific scriptures that will be twisted to teach religion.
There are others, but here are 3 common examples you'll find on all Christian forums and in many a Minister's mouth or Theologian's "word study"..

1.) if we confess our sins, we can be forgiven... 1 Jn 1:9
Here a teacher of religion will bend this scripture to hide and dodge the fact that a believer is already saved (forgiven) , and replace the blood atonement that forgives with the self deed of "confession".
The teacher of religion is substituting "confession" for the Blood Atonement.
This is "another gospel".... Galatians 1:8

I would agree that there are no formula's, incantations or exercises, personally performed, that are able to "make any person sinless." But it's a common error that is held by many believers.

The general mistake that believers have is they forget this fact from John:

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Have is a present tense term. If for example there were some formula, work, incantation etc that makes us "sinless" then we are right back to the same problem that John identifies and land in a position of personal deception and not being "in truth."

2.) "endure to the end".....Matthew 24:13.

Here the teacher of religion has substituted what Christ did to save you as a free gift with the idea that you must *endure* something to the end. (whatever that is).
The reality is, God only accepts you based on Christ's blood making you "accepted in the beloved" and will reject all self effort to save oneself by "enduring" anything., as Christ is the one that endured the Cross that Saves Us.

Enduring to the end or continuing in the faith, I would agree, is another sorely misapplied dictum. The underlying or root cause of misunderstanding is in the term "we." Who is "we" in truthful Christian terms. It is "we" as in Christ in us. Who then "endures?" We know Christ endures. So then there is a whole nother segment of believers who have what I call the "rotating and fickle" Christ, Him being perpetually "in and out" of His believers on a plethora of varied conditions. It is quite an absurd notion on the face of it. It's even more absurd because every "teacher" of this false notion has never had it happen to themselves and are always cocksure that Christ never left them personally. These kinds of claims are nonsense. But unfortunately, commonly taught.

The teacher of religion is substituting personal "enduring" for the Blood Atonement.
This is "another gospel".... Galatians 1:8

I would not be quick to toss aside enduring in faith as a legit dictate for any believer, and would say that it is in our best interests "in this present life" to DO SO. Will not enduring result in eternal damnation? Uh, no. There is no avenue of escape in any case of sights:

Hebrews 12:25
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

The notion that any believer can leave or escape God is in fact quite false to start with. So, WHY endure? Again we are advised why:

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Was this eternal destruction? Uh, no. But there was a penalty paid for "unbelief" and that penalty was their death in the desert. Whom all but 2 people over the age of 20 suffered. It was NOT eternal damnation because Moses himself died in the desert because of unbelief and did not enter the promised land, but Moses shows up AGAIN in the mount of Transfiguration so it is a proven fact that as least Moses was not eternally damned. I extend that none of them were eternally destroyed on the basis of Romans 11:25-32 because Paul says they will be saved anyway.

3.) Who "will render to each one according to his deeds, -- indignation and wrath"
Romans 2:6-8

Here the teacher of religion will twist the New Testament into a pretzel shaped heresy to try to eternally punish a Saved Child of God with the vengeance given by JESUS to the UNBELIEVERS, that is found in.... 1st Thessalonians 1:8.
This is "another Gospel"... Galatians 1:8

There is both vengeance and wrath of God to believers "in the flesh." There is also chastisements and various tribulations to believers in the flesh. That also extends past the death of the flesh to the "suffering of loss" that Paul refers to in 1 Cor. 3. But again, eternal damnation? No. The fact of "eternal damnation" to believers doesn't even exist in the scriptures via specifically named examples. No, not one single example. Yet this position flies as a standard in the majority of sects. It's just a plain old lie as far as I can determine from the scriptures, because there is not one single named example. One might think it would have been very easy to confirm this so called staple doctrine with one named example. But it doesn't exist in the Bible. Yet commonly promoted. At some point you realize that abusing preachers use this threat to personal advantages.

I might even observe that Paul taught this would happen, and it did happen:

Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

I avoid wolves in pastoral sheep cloth who practice this.

That all being said when anyone claims they are sinless because of Jesus or the blood or any numbers of repentance/confession/forgiveness routines and schemes I have to point out the obvious.

No one is sinless. The foundation of the reception of Gods Grace and Mercy in expressed in Christ is based on our NEEDs of same. And the NEEDs are based on the fact that we are sinners with evil present with us that can not be made otherwise in this present life.

The entirely "giddy" religious notion that we are entirely "free" in the flesh is simply not true. The flesh is factually against and contrary to the Spirit. This fact also can not be legitimately escaped. Gal. 5:17

We aren't "all that" quite yet.

 

[Kidron]

Rather simplistic notion. Seek, Knock, Ask are also biblical mandates. One and done has it's issues too. Matt. 7:7-8 and many other citings.
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
I avoid wolves in pastoral sheep cloth who practice this.
We aren't "all that" quite yet.

-

The general mistake that believers have is they forget this fact from John:
1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Actually there is a way to become sinless.
God gives you the "Gift of Righteousness" = as Righteousness means Sinless.
And to quote 1st John of course is to try to prove that unbelievers who are being addressed in the passage, are Born again.
Hebrews 8:12 tells you that God does not remember your sins. (sinless)
Romans 4:8 tells you that God does not charge your sins against you after you have been saved. (sinless).
So, John would know this, and that is why he cant possibly be telling Christians to "confess to be forgiven" when we already are and our sins are not counted against us, and John would know that.


Enduring to the end or continuing in the faith, I would agree, is another sorely misapplied dictum. The underlying or root cause of misunderstanding is in the term "we."


We dont "endure to the end" for what God has already given to us as a "free gift of Righteousness".
Salvation is a "free gift", and you dont endure for a gift.


Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


The only way you can try to use this verse as some type of threat, is to connect it with what Jesus does here: 2 Thessalonians 1:8

Jesus will execute vengeance in blazing fire on those (unsaved- Christ rejectors) who do not know God and have not recognized the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"



There is both vengeance and wrath of God to believers "in the flesh." There is also chastisements and various tribulations to believers in the flesh. That also extends past the death of the flesh to the "suffering of loss" that Paul refers to in 1 Cor. 3. But again, eternal damnation? No. The fact of "eternal damnation" to believers doesn't even exist in the scriptures via specifically named examples. No, not one single example.

Agreed.



That all being said when anyone claims they are sinless because of Jesus or the blood or any numbers of repentance/confession/forgiveness routines and schemes I have to point out the obvious.

No one is sinless.


Actually, all born again Christians are sinless in Gods EYES, but where the confusion comes in, is that they sin according their own eyes.
See, there IS no sin that the blood and death of Jesus didnt already pay for and pardon.
All sins are paid for and pardoned by the Blood Atonement.
But people, see themselves and say....wow, i did this, i did that, and it was AFTER i was saved.
OMG !!....better confess it before i forget and go to hell.
So, What they are not understanding is, that the work of the Cross took the law away from them.
"not under the law, under grace". Romans 6:14
And "where there is NO Law, there is NO Transgression (sin)". Romans 4:14
WHERE THERE IS NO LAW <> THERE IS......NO......TRANSGRESSION.
"And we have been "redeemed from the curse of the Law" Galatians 3:13.
So, this is why, God does not hold us accountable.
First its because the Blood Atonement clears us, then the Law is taken away from us so that it cant accuse us.

This is why Paul NOW calls what USE TO BE SINS, as "works of the flesh" Galatians 5:19
See, when we were "under the Law", works of the flesh were called SINS, as the Law had this power to judge us and name our works of the flesh as SINS.
But now it doesn't , as were are no longer under the LAW, but under GRACE....so what use to be called sins and transgressions (under the Law) are now called "works of the Flesh (Under Grace).
See it?

So, the issue is not understanding that GOD SEES us as Sinless, while we dont.
But he does.
This is why you have scriptures to show you GOD's Perspective regarding your sinless condition.
And in this way, we come to realize that it does not matter what we think, it only matters if HE thinks it.
And God says that we are sinless, forgiven, and this never changes tho we do things that WE would consider sins.....He does not even remember them our charge them to us.


Hebrews 8:12 ""and their sins and their lawless deedsI will remember no more""

Romans 4:8 New International Version

Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them."

New Living Translation
Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of sin."

English Standard Version
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Berean Study Bible
Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Berean Literal Bible
blessed isthe man against whom the Lord will never reckon sin."

New American Standard Bible
"BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."

King James Bible
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
How joyful is the man the Lord will never charge with sin!

International Standard Version
How blessed is the person whose sins the Lord will never charge against him!"

 

[Free]

First : RELIGION is man trying to work his way to heaven by their self righteous effort of striving to get there.
Religion, is someone trying save themselves in their self effort to reach and maintain relationship with God based on what they themselves do to attempt to achieve it.

At its most basic, religion is "a set of beliefs held by a group of people." https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Of course it usually involves a little more than that: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion

All that to say that Christianity is a religion.

 

[smaller]

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The general mistake that believers have is they forget this fact from John:
1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Actually there is a way to become sinless.

No, there isn't without eliminating John's statement of fact. That can't work and won't legitimately happen. The instant we say we "have," present tense, NO SIN we are in fact "out" of truth and deceived.

There are numerous statements in the scriptures about sin, the facts of same as applied to ALL. It is a "universal malady" of mankind.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Paul shows us again, clearly, that sin dwells in our own flesh, even that "evil" was present with him, because of this fact:

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Paul drew this "law" directly from the O.T. Example:

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

That setting by God, of EVIL, is internal, as Jesus shows to us in:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

God gives you the "Gift of Righteousness" = as Righteousness means Sinless.

That extension is NOT to indwelling sin, to evil present with us. The Righteousness of God in Christ is being waited upon, to be put on in full at a later time:

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

For any of us to 'claim that status' in our current state is not a faithful claim. NOR is it remotely true.

And to quote 1st John of course is to try to prove that unbelievers who are being addressed in the passage, are Born again.

The standard I fly pertaining to "what Words of God" apply to whom is found in Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4, as given by Jesus i.e. every Word of God applies to MAN. To parse it any other way is a violation, whether it be on the basis of history or lineage or any other slant. Gods Words are also addressed to adverse agents of God i.e. the devil and his messengers, as shown in Mark 4:15, 1 Tim. 1:9 and 1 John 3:8 for examples.

Hebrews 8:12 tells you that God does not remember your sins. (sinless)
Romans 4:8 tells you that God does not charge your sins against you after you have been saved. (sinless).
So, John would know this, and that is why he cant possibly be telling Christians to "confess to be forgiven" when we already are and our sins are not counted against us, and John would know that.

The position you are fostering has a very large gap. What we might have in view is "attribution" for sins. We do not have sin charged to our account, by faith, as exemplified in 2 Cor. 5:19. The BIG BUT scriptural "legitimate" argument that must be employed here is that they WILL be counted and there IS a price to pay.

Firstly, we all "pay" the price of physical death because of sin.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Is this body then cooperative with God in Christ? No. It can't be. It's not possible for the flesh to be cooperative with the Spirit:

Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The above shows us our factual state. We can't legitimately claim we don't have flesh when we are literally standing in it. We can't legitimately claim that the Spirit is in behalf of the flesh when that's clearly NOT the case.

This is exactly the conundrum that most theological inquiries (and a myriad of disputes) revolve around.

The short lesson here is that indwelling sin and evil present within our flesh is NOT EXCUSED on the basis of Jesus' Forgiveness.

To really get at the heart of this "issue" is to understand that sin, in reality, is DEMONIC or "of the devil." 1 John 3:8 and other scriptures such as Mark 4:15 (and the other seed parables) secure this link of "our" sin to the devil.

So, is the devil forgiven? No. Saved? No. Will sin be counted against them? Yes. Are you so easily led to believe that we, in the flesh, will not pay a price in the now for such deceptions? And suffer loss for being pawns of our anti-Christ spiritual adversary's? By disregarding the gravity of sin and evil and tossing Eternal Judgments aside for their involvements in sin and evil?

Again, we should find ourselves in a catch 22. An unsolvable scriptural dilemma. This is precisely the foundation for our need for Grace and Mercy in Christ Jesus.

Paul shows us this about himself:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

I might hope you can deploy the Wisdom of God in this. That two different eternal fates were 'walking' with Paul on earth. One of the parties above was saved. The other, not so much, who will eventually land in the LoF.

Therefore every last line of adverse scripture applies also to US in the flesh.

We are not only directed, but COMMANDED to fight against our adversaries in our own flesh. One of those dictates is condemnation.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

We are to do likewise. Not brush it off or claim sin is off the hook, excuse it, GLORIFY it, allow it. Nothing. We are to condemn our own flesh because of the presence of indwelling sin and evil present with us, JUST AS JESUS clearly did. And even IF that rightful condemnation lands first on our own sorry hides.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:3-6 teaches us how we can see the kingdom of God.

Romans 10:9,10 teaches us how to be saved by Gods righteousness through confessing we are sinners as Ephesians 2:8 says it's by the free gift of Gods grace.

Colossians Chapter 3 teaches us to keep ourselves from the things of this world as we are risen with Christ and to seek those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father.

James Chapter 1 teaches us what joy and the trying of our faith is through patience and Gods wisdom. It also teaches us what pure religion is.

If we can grasp these basics then we can grow from that into pure maturity of the word of God.

 

[Kidron]

All that to say that Christianity is a religion.

-
Christianity is unique, and tho it can be credited with the idea of religious people being involved in it, its completely different then any other "religion".
This is because all religions attempt to reach God or become God or become God like.
Whereas, in Christianity, God became One of US, to take us back to Himself.
So, that is not the definition regarding any other religion, extant.
And this is why it is to traduce and besmirch Christianity by even lightly associating it with "religion".

 

[Free]

-
Christianity is unique, and tho it can be credited with the idea of religious people being involved in it, its completely different then any other "religion".
This is because all religions attempt to reach God or become God or become God like.
Whereas, in Christianity, God became One of US, to take us back to Himself.
So, that is not the definition regarding any other religion, extant.
And this is why it is to traduce and besmirch Christianity by even lightly associating it with "religion".

You are begging the question. You make up your own definition of religion which precludes Christianity and then use it to conclude that Christianity cannot be a religion.

Like it or not, Christianity is a religion.

 

[Kidron]

You are begging the question. You make up your own definition of religion which precludes Christianity and then use it to conclude that Christianity cannot be a religion.

Like it or not, Christianity is a religion.

Christianity is a relationship with God, through Christ.
Christianity, is God becoming a man, to die for mankind, to redeem them and bring them back to His family.

Show me another "religion" that you can find, that meets that (2) criteria, and you have proven your point.
Take you time, Free.
You'll need it.



K

 

[Free]

Christianity is a relationship with God, through Christ.
Christianity, is God becoming a man, to die for mankind, to redeem them and bring them back to His family.

Show me another "religion" that you can find, that meets that (2) criteria, and you have proven your point.
Take you time, Free.
You'll need it.

You're still committing the fallacy of begging the question. My point is proven; Christianity is a religion..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Christianity is unique, and tho it can be credited with the idea of religious people being involved in it, its completely different then any other "religion".
This is because all religions attempt to reach God or become God or become God like.
Whereas, in Christianity, God became One of US, to take us back to Himself.
So, that is not the definition regarding any other religion, extant.
And this is why it is to traduce and besmirch Christianity by even lightly associating it with "religion".

27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." (James 1:27 NASB)

As we can see for ourselves, even the Bible itself more than just lightly associates Christianity with 'religion'. The mistake you are making is not distinguishing between 'bad' religion and the 'pure and undefiled' religion that true Christianity is.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Our religion is basically our understanding of God. We all are going to have our understanding of God (our religion). I call myself a Christian, because in general my understanding matches up with Christianity. But I often find that my understanding of God can differ with so very many Christians, which has often got me wondering about that.

Now my understanding has come from a number of sources but primarily it has been influenced by my Lord. Many might not understand that so let me explain. There is One (spiritual being) who came into my life. The first words I heard from Him was "Read Your Bible", and strangely that was at a time I hardly believed in spiritual beings. Those were not only the first words I heard from Him, but the first words I heard from any spiritual being, at least that I knew of. It turns out, from what I have experienced, that spiritual being have been influencing me and all others always.

Now I can choose to listen with my spiritual ears or not. Usually I don't. I can get up in the morning and seek the Lord or not. I can say "Good morning Lord", and hear a response from Him, or I can ignore Him.

Now sometimes other Christian don't make sense to me because I have found, by experience, that if I seek the Lord I find Him. It even made me wonder if I should call myself a Christian, because so often I find Christians that don't view Christianity like that. Yet I have found Christians who do view Christianity like that, and I believe that those that wrote the Bible were in fact like that.

I bring this up because while I like most of what was in the opening post, I had a problem with the follow statement:

Religion, is someone trying save themselves in their self effort to reach and maintain relationship with God based on what they themselves do to attempt to achieve it.

From what I have seen Jesus wants to have a relationship with everyone, but not all are willing to enter into that relationship. And if I want a relationship with someone I usually start up a conversation with them. Mostly I do that by asking a question to making a comment that is meant to get a response from them. And isn't it the same way with God? So I appreciated the comments in a later post on the thread by smaller. which I put below.

Rather simplistic notion. Seek, Knock, Ask are also biblical mandates. One and done has it's issues too. Matt. 7:7-8 and many other citings.

Yet maybe smaller didn't mean the above as I do. I honestly believe it is in fact a very simplistic notion, this seeking and finding God, that God has put in place to save us. It can't get much simpler than that, but maybe smaller didn't think it can really be that simple, because he also wrote: "It's not an easy topic. And not meant to be easy".

Why? Why is it not meant to be easy? The thing I find out from talking to the Lord is that He can take the most complicated and make it easy. What is harder to do; take the complicated and make it easy, or take the easy and make it complicated? I am good at making taking the easy and making it complicated. Ask my wife. Or even look at this writing.

And I am not alone at being able to take a simple message of faith in Jesus Christ and making it complicated. I have read the other writings also. Men tend to make knowing God all so complicated. We all see that. Kidron saw that and wrote:

This is because all religions attempt to reach God or become God or become God like.

Yeah, men do that. But we are also men. God, according to our stated belief, is an Omni-present being. So why don't we just take to Him and listen?

Other religions don't do that, and too often Christians don't see it that way either. Yet Paul wrote: that the Word was near us. And Paul wasn't talking about the Bible because he lead in by writing, "do not say in your hearts who will ascend into heaven. That is to bring Christ down," (see Rom 10)

We should know that Jesus is the Word of God. That is His name. (Rev 19:13) We should know that He is called that because He talks to us. He said His sheep hear His voice (Jn 10:16) And if we really believe He is God and God is always with us, and He did say He would never leave us, then we should be talking and hearing from Him everyday. So why do we make it this so complicated?

Religion is our understanding of God. My understanding of God is that He is always with me, that as His sheep I can hear His voice. So I simply seek Him by asking questions of Him and then listening to Him. From my experience, other religions don't believe that. And sadly from my experience many Christians don't believe that either.

Oh, maybe I did make it a little too simple, because I also found out that there are other spirits also. Many not willing to serve the Lord. But they are the one trying to keep you from talking to the Lord. So where are those other people getting their religion (understanding of God)? Didn't Jesus also point that out to the religious leader of His time?

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

So if people just stopped and too the time to listen to what He wants to say to them, they would understand. And then there understanding of God (their Religion) would be just that. Stop and listen to the Lord.

He said I stand at the door and knock, and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. (Rev 3:20)

It's just not all that complicated!

 

[smaller]

Yet maybe smaller didn't mean the above as I do. I honestly believe it is in fact a very simplistic notion, this seeking and finding God, that God has put in place to save us. It can't get much simpler than that, but maybe smaller didn't think it can really be that simple, because he also wrote: "It's not an easy topic. And not meant to be easy".

Why? Why is it not meant to be easy? The thing I find out from talking to the Lord is that He can take the most complicated and make it easy. What is harder to do; take the complicated and make it easy, or take the easy and make it complicated? I am good at making taking the easy and making it complicated. Ask my wife. Or even look at this writing.

God in Christ always meets us on easy grounds. It never ends that way. Matt. 11:30. Look to our Redeemer for His fate in the flesh for our example.

And I am not alone at being able to take a simple message of faith in Jesus Christ and making it complicated. I have read the other writings also. Men tend to make knowing God all so complicated. We all see that. Kidron saw that and wrote:

Yeah, men do that. But we are also men. God, according to our stated belief, is an Omni-present being. So why don't we just take to Him and listen?

We all listen to the stuff we happen to like with no uncertainty. It's the other side of the coin that was meant to pose severe difficulties. Few hear those things. Luke 14:26. And yes, there is ample cause to do so, if we are listening rather than making excuses.

Other religions don't do that, and too often Christians don't see it that way either. Yet Paul wrote: that the Word was near us. And Paul wasn't talking about the Bible because he lead in by writing, "do not say in your hearts who will ascend into heaven. That is to bring Christ down," (see Rom 10)

We should know that Jesus is the Word of God. That is His name. (Rev 19:13) We should know that He is called that because He talks to us. He said His sheep hear His voice (Jn 10:16) And if we really believe He is God and God is always with us, and He did say He would never leave us, then we should be talking and hearing from Him everyday. So why do we make it this so complicated?

Humble pie is a hard meal to ingest for the flesh. Gal. 5:17

Religion is our understanding of God. My understanding of God is that He is always with me, that as His sheep I can hear His voice. So I simply seek Him by asking questions of Him and then listening to Him. From my experience, other religions don't believe that. And sadly from my experience many Christians don't believe that either.

Oh, maybe I did make it a little too simple, because I also found out that there are other spirits also. Many not willing to serve the Lord. But they are the one trying to keep you from talking to the Lord. So where are those other people getting their religion (understanding of God)? Didn't Jesus also point that out to the religious leader of His time?

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Here are a couple of reasonable measures. Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 show that man shall live by every Word. I believe this to be true. Liking the Words or NOT. If we are listening to "all" of the Word, we will not exempt ourselves from part 2 and only hear part 1:

Matthew 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Here is an example given by the Word, of two men. One who only hears part one, and one who hears ALL our Master has to say and is justified. I will highlight/blue and bold what he was that applies to part 2 above, and that honesty justified him:

Luke 18:
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

God's operations are quite the opposite of what any flesh man thinks. Sin is condemned. God is merciful to and saves sinners. We never are able to "truthfully" exonerate ourselves from the reality of this present life/conditions. Ever. Yet the hard part is when the hypocrisy of the flesh over rules our mind, which is shown in the "religious man" above. Then we turn out to be the kinds of people Jesus hated the most.

So if people just stopped and too the time to listen to what He wants to say to them, they would understand. And then there understanding of God (their Religion) would be just that. Stop and listen to the Lord.

He said I stand at the door and knock, and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. (Rev 3:20)

It's just not all that complicated!

I've met very few believers who can stand up or rather should I say, stoop down and humble themselves to the Words of our King. All of them. Not just the stuff we like. Most religions are of the feel good only variety. Christianity is not that way.

I don't expect Jesus to talk to me until I learn to listen to what has already been spoken. And that is a heaping plateful that has lasted me a lifetime, so far.

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Entertaining my own imaginations or phony religious spirits ain't my cuppa tea.

Continuing in is vastly more personally engaging, well, for part of us. I do understand that the flesh will go kicking and screaming to it's bitter end. Not expecting that to change.

Christianity is a catch 22 of the Divine Variety:

A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules.

Obviously The Designer Is A Divine Genius.

 

[Kidron]

Our religion is basically our understanding of God. We all are going to have our understanding of God (our religion). I call myself a Christian, because in general my understanding matches up with Christianity. But I often find that my understanding of God can differ with so very many Christians, which has often got me wondering about that.

Now my understanding has come from a number of sources but primarily it has been influenced by my Lord. Many might not understand that so let me explain. There is One (spiritual being) who came into my life. The first words I heard from Him was "Read Your Bible", and strangely that was at a time I hardly believed in spiritual beings. Those were not only the first words I heard from Him, but the first words I heard from any spiritual being, at least that I knew of. It turns out, from what I have experienced, that spiritual being have been influencing me and all others always.

Now I can choose to listen with my spiritual ears or not. Usually I don't. I can get up in the morning and seek the Lord or not. I can say "Good morning Lord", and hear a response from Him, or I can ignore Him.

Now sometimes other Christian don't make sense to me because I have found, by experience, that if I seek the Lord I find Him. It even made me wonder if I should call myself a Christian, because so often I find Christians that don't view Christianity like that. Yet I have found Christians who do view Christianity like that, and I believe that those that wrote the Bible were in fact like that.

I bring this up because while I like most of what was in the opening post, I had a problem with the follow statement:



From what I have seen Jesus wants to have a relationship with everyone, but not all are willing to enter into that relationship. And if I want a relationship with someone I usually start up a conversation with them. Mostly I do that by asking a question to making a comment that is meant to get a response from them. And isn't it the same way with God? So I appreciated the comments in a later post on the thread by smaller. which I put below.



Yet maybe smaller didn't mean the above as I do. I honestly believe it is in fact a very simplistic notion, this seeking and finding God, that God has put in place to save us. It can't get much simpler than that, but maybe smaller didn't think it can really be that simple, because he also wrote: "It's not an easy topic. And not meant to be easy".

Why? Why is it not meant to be easy? The thing I find out from talking to the Lord is that He can take the most complicated and make it easy. What is harder to do; take the complicated and make it easy, or take the easy and make it complicated? I am good at making taking the easy and making it complicated. Ask my wife. Or even look at this writing.

And I am not alone at being able to take a simple message of faith in Jesus Christ and making it complicated. I have read the other writings also. Men tend to make knowing God all so complicated. We all see that. Kidron saw that and wrote:



Yeah, men do that. But we are also men. God, according to our stated belief, is an Omni-present being. So why don't we just take to Him and listen?

Other religions don't do that, and too often Christians don't see it that way either. Yet Paul wrote: that the Word was near us. And Paul wasn't talking about the Bible because he lead in by writing, "do not say in your hearts who will ascend into heaven. That is to bring Christ down," (see Rom 10)

We should know that Jesus is the Word of God. That is His name. (Rev 19:13) We should know that He is called that because He talks to us. He said His sheep hear His voice (Jn 10:16) And if we really believe He is God and God is always with us, and He did say He would never leave us, then we should be talking and hearing from Him everyday. So why do we make it this so complicated?

Religion is our understanding of God. My understanding of God is that He is always with me, that as His sheep I can hear His voice. So I simply seek Him by asking questions of Him and then listening to Him. From my experience, other religions don't believe that. And sadly from my experience many Christians don't believe that either.

Oh, maybe I did make it a little too simple, because I also found out that there are other spirits also. Many not willing to serve the Lord. But they are the one trying to keep you from talking to the Lord. So where are those other people getting their religion (understanding of God)? Didn't Jesus also point that out to the religious leader of His time?

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

So if people just stopped and too the time to listen to what He wants to say to them, they would understand. And then there understanding of God (their Religion) would be just that. Stop and listen to the Lord.

He said I stand at the door and knock, and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. (Rev 3:20)

It's just not all that complicated!

-
Any man or group can start a religion, and they will all end up at the same final destination, = Hell
But only God through Christ can save a human soul and take them to Heaven.
Thats the definitive difference between Christianity and all "religion".
So, when a person tells you that Christianity is a religion, you tell them that you'll agree if there is one more religion in existence, past - or - present or future, that can save a human soul and that also takes them to heaven to be with Jesus The Christ, after they die.
Happy Hunting

John 14:6

 

[Free]

-
Any man or group can start a religion, and they will all end up at the same final destination, = Hell
But only God through Christ can save a human soul and take them to Heaven.
Thats the definitive difference between Christianity and all "religion".
So, when a person tells you that Christianity is a religion, you tell them that you'll agree if there is one more religion in existence, past - or - present or future, that can save a human soul and that also takes them to heaven to be with Jesus The Christ, after they die.
Happy Hunting

John 14:6

But, again, this is begging the question.

 

[Kidron]

But, again, this is begging the question.

Think of it like this....

You can teach "religion" religiously, and this absolutely sends people to hell who follow you there.
OR-
You can lead them to Christ, and you are religious by doing it, but the end result is not even once the same as just practicing a "religion".

 

[Kidron]

27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." (James 1:27 NASB)

As we can see for ourselves, even the Bible itself more than just lightly associates Christianity with 'religion'. The mistake you are making is not distinguishing between 'bad' religion and the 'pure and undefiled' religion that true Christianity is.

-
Im not making any mistakes ,
And one of them im not making is to refuse to comprehend and thereby distinguish the difference between what man religiously creates that is a "religion", that leads all to hell who follow it, vs, God becoming a man and doing something for me that i get as a gift by Faith.
I dont make the mistake of refusing to distinguish this difference.
Religion = man do it till death, then finds hell.
Christianity = God did it and offers it as a gift. = heaven in the end for man.

 

[Free]

-
Im not making any mistakes ,
And one of them im not making is to refuse to comprehend and thereby distinguish the difference between what man religiously creates that is a "religion", that leads all to hell who follow it, vs, God becoming a man and doing something for me that i get as a gift by Faith.
I dont make the mistake of refusing to distinguish this difference.
Religion = man do it till death, then finds hell.
Christianity = God did it and offers it as a gift. = heaven in the end for man.

So, someone offers Scripture which clearly supports their position, but you simply dismiss it without addressing it in favour of your unsupported opinion. Why is that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, someone offers Scripture which clearly supports their position, but you simply dismiss it without addressing it in favour of your unsupported opinion. Why is that?

Pride. Plain and simple.

 

[Free]

Think of it like this....

You can teach "religion" religiously, and this absolutely sends people to hell who follow you there.
OR-
You can lead them to Christ, and you are religious by doing it, but the end result is not even once the same as just practicing a "religion".

Think of it like this:

There is good religion, namely Christianity, which teaches that one can have a personal relationship with God.
OR
There is bad religion which leads away from God.