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I Actually Think That They Did The Right Thing

HeIsRisen2018

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Here's the thing, I just recently discovered this story that occurred last year (or I might have featured it in my news thread I just don't remember it) about a man who murdered his pregnant wife and two daughters as well as his unborn son. Now normally I would say hang him but considering the fact that the victims' family showed forgiveness and didn't seek the death penalty,.. at first I wasn't happy about that (not the forgiveness part him serving life behind bars instead of being put to death) but if they had sought it out, although he would have the punishment of eternal torture in Hell for murdering those sweet and innocent little babies, I do feel like in this circumstance death would have been too good for him.




Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get a chance to think about what he did and hopefully in the end repent for it. It makes me angry and sick to see people like this. There are so many people out there who can't have any children of their own, but his motive was that he was getting sick and tired of them and he wanted a fresh start! :mad I can't even begin to think why somebody would do this to their own family and little lives that he brought into the world that he was supposed to love, nurture, and protect! I mean WHY!? :crying It's bad enough to harm or kill any innocent child, but how can you do that to your own and to a baby who didn't even get the chance to live yet. :sad (same exact way how I feel when it comes to abortion)




Part of me is saying that I want this man to rot in Hell for the crimes that he has done, but I know that God is giving him a chance at redemption too and I really hope that even if he repents on his death bed that in the end he does so that he has a hope of being with his family again even though he really doesn't deserve it. It sure sounds like from these statements on here that the wife was saved and I believe without a shadow of a doubt that those babies are safe with Jesus now. :halo Here's the full video to this documentary story (just in case you didn't already know) and I'm just really curious for some thoughts and feedback about this.



 

kiwidan

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The reason I don't believe in the death penalty is the story of Paul's conversion. Only God has the right to cast a stone.
 
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HeIsRisen2018

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The reason I don't believe in the death penalty is the story of Paul's conversion. Only God has the right to cast a stone. I mean, sure people should serve time for the crime, but if you take there life you don't know if or when they will repent and be remorceful and reconcile. People screw up majorly in life sometimes and do crazy things but they can change.

From radical Islamic extremist to peaceful Muslim preacher.

From sociopath who tried to murder his father with a hammer, to born again Christian and reconciling with his father.

People change.



True, I still believe in the death penalty though. For people like Nikolas Cruz who murdered seventeen people last year on Valentine's Day. A life for all of the other lives that were taken that day. Just because somebody can forgive another person doesn't mean that they aren't any less guilty and shouldn't pay for what they did or at least in my book because justice and forgiveness are two entirely different things.
 

kiwidan

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True, I still believe in the death penalty though. A life for all of the other lives that were taken that day.
So you believe in cutting someones life short because of something they did and not giving them time to repent?. They did a huge wrong and flipped out so quickly cast a stone.

What human has the right to take away another humans life even the offender may have done it first. They murdered so they get murdered back?, then that person just become a murderer. Is that not hypocracy?
 
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HeIsRisen2018

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So you believe in cutting someones life short because of something they did and not giving them time to repent?. They did a huge wrong and flipped out so quickly cast a stone.

What human has the right to take away another humans life even the criminal may have done it first.



Because that's just the way the criminal justice system works. Repenting for your sins is enough for God, but that person is still responsible for their actions.
 

lisa-in-FL

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So you believe in cutting someones life short because of something they did and not giving them time to repent?. They did a huge wrong and flipped out so quickly cast a stone.

What human has the right to take away another humans life even the offender may have done it first. They murdered so they get murdered back?, then that person just become a murderer. Is that not hypocracy?
But what they did was cutting someone's life short so that person (or multiple people, as in the school shooting) didn't have extra time to repent and be saved.
 

lisa-in-FL

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Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get a chance to think about what he did and hopefully in the end repent for it. It makes me angry and sick to see people like this. There are so many people out there who can't have any children of their own, but his motive was that he was getting sick and tired of them and he wanted a fresh start! :mad I can't even begin to think why somebody would do this to their own family and little lives that he brought into the world that he was supposed to love, nurture, and protect! I mean WHY!? :crying It's bad enough to harm or kill any innocent child, but how can you do that to your own and to a baby who didn't even get the chance to live yet. :sad (same exact way how I feel when it comes to abortion)

agreed. if he wanted a fresh start then just leave. plenty of dead-beat dad's out there skipping out on child support, all he had to do was join their ranks. There was something wrong in his head that he felt like murdering them and hiding their bodies was the only option open to him. That's not an option for anyone, anywhere.
A lot of people (me included) felt that way about the pretty famous Casey/Caylee Anthony case from here in FL. She seemed like a party girl that didn't want to be tied down with a daughter anymore. Whatever happened - whether it was murder or accidental murder thru negligence - it was so unnecessary as the grandparents or other family members would have happily taken that little girl in.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Well, I just finished watching the funeral of the women and the children that were killed and it really saddens me that a lot of the comments were blaming Jesus for not protecting them from that monster and that's where I feel the need to ask then where are they now? Well they're safe in the arms of Jesus (and yes the woman was saved) unless he repents he's got a spot for him in Hell. Oh and I thought Casey Anthony was found innocent though. :confused
 

lisa-in-FL

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Well, I just finished watching the funeral of the women and the children that were killed and it really saddens me that a lot of the comments were blaming Jesus for not protecting them from that monster and that's where I feel the need to ask then where are they now? Well they're safe in the arms of Jesus (and yes the woman was saved) unless he repents he's got a spot for him in Hell. Oh and I thought Casey Anthony was found innocent though. :confused
Yeah, lots of people think Jesus should be like a super-hero preventing bad things from happening to anyone. As cool as that would be it doesn't work that way in this fallen world. He can save us from Hell though.
On the Anthony case, she was found guilty of the lies she told after the girl was reported missing, but the state couldn't prove without doubt that she was guilty of murder because there was no way to prove how the girl died by the time her remains were found. There was plain evidence that the body was in the trunk of Casey's adandoned car. However it happened - accident or intentional - I believe she was responsible for the death and hiding the body, then lying to everyone and even trying to implicate her parents in the murder as part of her defense.

What always bugs me about big cases like this or the OJ Simpson trial is that there is never a follow up. Like, okay, let's say they are innocent, then where is the continued investigation to find out who actually did it?
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Oh yeah and by the way I just wanted to copy and paste what I wrote on the last video of the funeral service.


On August 13th 2018 four lives were lost. Three of those little lives will never get to experience what most of us get to experience in our lifetimes. They will never have their first kiss, go on their first date, or graduate from high school. They will never grow up, get married, and have their own children. It really makes you think of how much in this life that we take for granted. R.I.P Sha'nan,(I couldn't spell her name) Bella, Celeste, and little baby Nico. I might have never known you but I still know for a fact that I will never forget you.
 

for_his_glory

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We had talked about this not to long ago about the death penalty so I will post this again as I agree with it.

erlc.com/Killing. Are there exceptions

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Is there a confict between these two scriptures, no.

Murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice or forethought. Murder, therefore, is distinguished from killing by the issue of motive.

Jesus identified that motive behind murder as anger in Matthew 5:21, 22. Christ goes to the root of the behavior and sees the anger behind the action. The act of murder is still subject to the punishement in Genesis 9:6.

In Exodus 20:13 God forbids murder as He emphasizes the value of human life because we are all made in His image, but God also shows us that killing doesn't always fall under the category of murder.

Situations where killing is not murder is found in self-defense where one is allowed to protect themself, Exodus 22:2, 3; Nehemiah 4:11-14. Exodus 22:2, 3. If a thief breaks into your house at night time and is struck that he would die there is no blood guilt on the who causes the thief to die. But if it is during the daylight then the punishment of Genesis 9:6 would apply as the thief life was valued . So even after the command in Exodus 20:13 God permits the taking of a life if one's own life is in potential danger. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in scripture, vlue for human life is the rule.

Capital Punishment

Genesis 9:6 God established capital punishement even before giving the law of "Thou shall not kill" to Moses. The punishment in Genesis 9:6 speaks to the severity of the crime. The taking of a life warrants a punishment as in a death for a death. It's not given for vengeance, but for justice and the role of justice is carried out by one specific office, Romans 13:1-6.

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle. In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
 

kiwidan

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There was another thread on this.
 
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StoveBolts

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We had talked about this not to long ago about the death penalty so I will post this again as I agree with it.

erlc.com/Killing. Are there exceptions

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Is there a confict between these two scriptures, no.

Murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice or forethought. Murder, therefore, is distinguished from killing by the issue of motive.

Jesus identified that motive behind murder as anger in Matthew 5:21, 22. Christ goes to the root of the behavior and sees the anger behind the action. The act of murder is still subject to the punishement in Genesis 9:6.

In Exodus 20:13 God forbids murder as He emphasizes the value of human life because we are all made in His image, but God also shows us that killing doesn't always fall under the category of murder.

Situations where killing is not murder is found in self-defense where one is allowed to protect themself, Exodus 22:2, 3; Nehemiah 4:11-14. Exodus 22:2, 3. If a thief breaks into your house at night time and is struck that he would die there is no blood guilt on the who causes the thief to die. But if it is during the daylight then the punishment of Genesis 9:6 would apply as the thief life was valued . So even after the command in Exodus 20:13 God permits the taking of a life if one's own life is in potential danger. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in scripture, vlue for human life is the rule.

Capital Punishment

Genesis 9:6 God established capital punishement even before giving the law of "Thou shall not kill" to Moses. The punishment in Genesis 9:6 speaks to the severity of the crime. The taking of a life warrants a punishment as in a death for a death. It's not given for vengeance, but for justice and the role of justice is carried out by one specific office, Romans 13:1-6.

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle. In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
A very good reply!
My studies of Exodus 22 brought me to Ramban who quotes the Sages. They basically say something like this.

If a thief comes into your house in the daytime, he does not expect anyone to be home and his intentions are to steal and not harm.

If a thief comes at night, he knows you are home and sleeping. It was common for thieves to kill you during the night so they could rob you.

So yes, killing in self defense is permissible as is killing to save a life.

Sanctuary cities were set up to house people who killed by accident, but kin of the deceased burned with anger and sought revenge. Thus, anger is the same as murder when revenge is sought instead of forgiveness.
 

for_his_glory

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A very good reply!
My studies of Exodus 22 brought me to Ramban who quotes the Sages. They basically say something like this.

If a thief comes into your house in the daytime, he does not expect anyone to be home and his intentions are to steal and not harm.

If a thief comes at night, he knows you are home and sleeping. It was common for thieves to kill you during the night so they could rob you.

So yes, killing in self defense is permissible as is killing to save a life.

Sanctuary cities were set up to house people who killed by accident, but kin of the deceased burned with anger and sought revenge. Thus, anger is the same as murder when revenge is sought instead of forgiveness.
Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompense; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
 

WIP

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although he would have the punishment of eternal torture in Hell for murdering those sweet and innocent little babies,
Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get a chance to think about what he did and hopefully in the end repent for it.
I am concerned that you are passing judgement reserved for God alone.

You also commented that he deserved the death penalty for he deserved to be punished for what he did. Aren't you passing judgment reserved for God again?

The death penalty may be necessary but I would question where it is in Scripture that it is for us to punish anyone. I propose that when God instituted the death penalty to be carried out by man it was not so man could punish but rather because God decided that it was the just thing to do and had nothing to do with punishment. Whatever punishment was required, would have been left for God to handle later.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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I am concerned that you are passing judgement reserved for God alone.

You also commented that he deserved the death penalty for he deserved to be punished for what he did. Aren't you passing judgment reserved for God again?

The death penalty may be necessary but I would question where it is in Scripture that it is for us to punish anyone. I propose that when God instituted the death penalty to be carried out by man it was not so man could punish but rather because God decided that it was the just thing to do and had nothing to do with punishment. Whatever punishment was required, would have been left for God to handle later.




Whoa let's stop, rewind, freeze, and review here. The man deliberately choked the living daylights out of his pregnant wife and then smothered both of his daughters to death while they pleaded for their lives and disposed of and hid their bodies in oil tanks. Now let me ask you one question. Unless he repents of his crimes (which I did previously mention before) do you honestly think that there's a place reserved in Heaven for him? Because I sure don't. I hope he repents and feels at least some sort of remorse for his actions but I highly doubt he does.
 

WIP

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Whoa let's stop, rewind, freeze, and review here. The man deliberately choked the living daylights out of his pregnant wife and then smothered both of his daughters to death while they pleaded for their lives and disposed of and hid their bodies in oil tanks. Now let me ask you one question. Unless he repents of his crimes (which I did previously mention before) do you honestly think that there's a place reserved in Heaven for him? Because I sure don't. I hope he repents and feels at least some sort of remorse for his actions but I highly doubt he does.
But you didn't say unless he repents. You said what I quoted and I'll quote it again here.
8436
Tell me how you know he would not get a chance to repent.

You're basing your arguments on your emotions and not on reality. You are angry with him and have decided he will face the fires of hell. You don't know that. Remember the thief that was hung along side Jesus?
 

StoveBolts

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Whoa let's stop, rewind, freeze, and review here. The man deliberately choked the living daylights out of his pregnant wife and then smothered both of his daughters to death while they pleaded for their lives and disposed of and hid their bodies in oil tanks. Now let me ask you one question. Unless he repents of his crimes (which I did previously mention before) do you honestly think that there's a place reserved in Heaven for him? Because I sure don't. I hope he repents and feels at least some sort of remorse for his actions but I highly doubt he does.
Here is something to think about in terms of repentance.
The man took lives... To repent means he must now give life.
How would that be lived out?
We know Saul murdered Christians, but he repented and brought many to Christ.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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But you didn't say unless he repents. You said what I quoted and I'll quote it again here.
View attachment 8436
Tell me how you know he would not get a chance to repent.

You're basing your arguments on your emotions and not on reality. You are angry with him and have decided he will face the fires of hell. You don't know that. Remember the thief that was hung along side Jesus?




Read my entire first post again it's in there. It might not be in those exact words but I did mention that he has a chance at redemption.
 

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